Goku's Purity of Heart: A Lie? - Page 5

Jay · 03-04-2008

You know I was thinking the same thing the other day.

If Goku still loved Chi Chi which he claimed he did, I see no reason why he couldn't both train Uub and remain with his family at the same time, even by moving away to train 1 Tribe boy he disrespected Gohan and Goten. Hell, Goten grew up for a large part of his life not even knowing his father, and then Goku leaves again later.

If he didn't love Chi Chi, he could have had morals and told her rather than bailing out like a coward.

I'm sure this affects Goku's purity level.

Super Ultimate Gohan · 03-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Green Dragon

You know I was thinking the same thing the other day.

If Goku still loved Chi Chi which he claimed he did, I see no reason why he couldn't both train Uub and remain with his family at the same time, even by moving away to train 1 Tribe boy he disrespected Gohan and Goten. Hell, Goten grew up for a large part of his life not even knowing his father, and then Goku leaves again later.

If he didn't love Chi Chi, he could have had morals and told her rather than bailing out like a coward.

I'm sure this affects Goku's purity level.

Well for starters kakarrot let himself die in the cell games to save the earth.

And kakarrot didn't bail out like a coward, he left to train to keep him as the strongest so he can defend the earth when he needs to...Thats a very noble thing to do.

Jay · 03-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Ultimate Gohan

Well for starters kakarrot let himself die in the cell games to save the earth.

And kakarrot didn't bail out like a coward, he left to train to keep him as the strongest so he can defend the earth when he needs to...Thats a very noble thing to do.

I can accept the noble sacrifice in the Cell Games.

But Vegeta wanted to always beat Kakarot and be the strongest, and he managed to not bail.

Goku didn't leave it for even a few days so he could give his family and friends some warning. Most of the time, Goku doesn't consider his friends and family's feelings.

I don't know if the scene where he missed the Barbeque because of protecting the eggs is filler or not, but if it isn't... it's so typical of how Goku places his own friends and family in the priority of things.

Sorata · 03-04-2008

I doubt Goku ever thought about his relationship with Chichi. He trained his whole life just to get stronger. Also you don't know how he was acting in the times of peace. Thanks to Teleportation tehnique he could be with his family when he wanted.

All this "purity" in Goku was more like stupidity. He wasn't used to higher logics. You could say he was muscles with some brain to live a happy life. Someone becomes evil knowing that his actions are evil in front of other people or the whole community. Goku didn't know that he shouldn't leave his wife and kids. They knew it and loved him despite that. All his friends accepted him just like he was. A simple minded but caring man.

Super Ultimate Gohan · 03-04-2008

So very true, kakarrot is noble, but inconsiderate, and misplaces his priorities.

Madness · 03-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Green Dragon

I can accept the noble sacrifice in the Cell Games.

But Vegeta wanted to always beat Kakarot and be the strongest, and he managed to not bail.

Goku didn't leave it for even a few days so he could give his family and friends some warning. Most of the time, Goku doesn't consider his friends and family's feelings.

I don't know if the scene where he missed the Barbeque because of protecting the eggs is filler or not, but if it isn't... it's so typical of how Goku places his own friends and family in the priority of things.

The Cell Games sacrifice was a completely selfless act, and one that suited Goku to the core. The Uub thing was a little strange, but maybe Goku finally realised he was gay or something

Super Ultimate Gohan · 03-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madness

The Cell Games sacrifice was a completely selfless act, and one that suited Goku to the core. The Uub thing was a little strange, but maybe Goku finally realised he was gay or something

Lmao so true. Wait does this mean kakarrot is michael jackson?

**LegendarySSJ7** · 03-04-2008

Goku has been shown to have killed for reasons outside of immediate threat, inadvertently, in a couple of occasions in early Dragonball (The Jiggler and Drum comes to mind, to be assiduous), so to say he has a pure heart is stretching it a bit, even if it's a requisite of going SS and if only one who has a "pure heart" can ride the Kinto'un by Muten Roshi's own admission in Volume 1, if I recollect. Not that it's that mysterious the notion. But I think it's just his Boo Saga characterizations that would augur or deem him "selfish". (IE: we've seen characters like Tenshinhan who started out not so affable, but not quite as pompous as Vegeta or as "animosity" spirited as Piccolo, but eventually changed... as well as in Freeza's case through insurmountably intense battle's like Goku vs. Freeza, where Vegeta's first changes reached fruition..... not to say any of these characters necessarily have a "pure" heart, but just saying). I wouldn't quite designate him as "selfish"... just questionable in the context of having a "pure heart" that's at issue.

jeditokill · 03-05-2008

Even though Goku does what he does, I still think he's pure of heart because, like it has been said in previous posts, he is a simple minded, but caring man. He does love his family deeply and I don't think that training to become stronger and stronger and to protect the Earth makes him "impure", it's just that when it comes to things like staying with your family, he's just more along the lines of an idiot. And that's just Goku for ya. I don't think he ever TRUELY means to hurt his family when he leaves them to train. If anyone was selfish it would be Vegeta since, because of his overwhelming pride, he was willing to throw all he had away when he became a Majin. But back on the subject, even though Goku may do those things, I think he's still pure of heart. As Krillin said at the end of the show, "You just can't stay mad at that guy!"

jeditokill · 03-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaiyajinPerfection

Vegeta's Saiyan traits didn't get in the way of him settling down after the Buu threat. Vegeta even stated when he became a Super Saiyan that the reason why he was "evil" was because he desired to nothing but to be stronger. That sounds oddly similar to Goku's situation....

Which is turd because Gohan was WAY stronger then Goku at the end of the Buu saga.

I know this is changing the subject, but about the whole being pure of heart to be a Super Saiyan rule, I don't believe that at all. Becoming a SSJ requires being at a certain high power level, and having UNBELIEVABLE amounts of rage and anger. Vegeta was pure good, but he wasn't pure evil either. I understand that wanting to become stronger like that could be kind of selfish, but I don't think it's evil. I thought it was a good thing to keep trying hard and pushing yourself to the limits, because it makes you into a true champion.

LegendaryBroli · 03-05-2008

I sometimes doubt goku's pure of heart. I mean when frieza killed Krillien, all goku wanted was revenge. Does someone pure of heart want revenge. When it is all said and done Goku give in to his Saiyan blood. Then theres the topic of Goten. Goten grew up seven years without knowing who goku was. All he knew he had a dad. I mean the only reason Goten knew goku was his dad was probably from seeing pictures in the house. Then when uub goku up and says "I gotta go train him." I mean why not spend some time with the son you have goku. It seemed to me that all he wanted to do was help the recarnation of kid buu and not help in raising Goten. Yes it is true that he did sacrifice himself in the cell games and that was a noble thing to do but after he comes back before meeting buu he barely spends time with Goten.

**Vizard** · 03-05-2008

I think you guys confuse the "pure heart" statement and take it far too literally. He was still good and didn't do bad deeds but I doubt he is 100% pure. Now you'll say that The Devilman's attack didn't work on Goku, but that maybe is for some reasons: He was a pure child so therefore his heart would be 100% pure or the attack can work on someone who posses an average amount of "evil".
@Super 17: In Freeza saga of course Goku wanted revenge. I mean lets say someone killed your best friend and your son is about to die after him. Don't tell me you wouldn't get angry and think for revenge. EVERYONE would. What should have Goku done in your opinion? Something like: "Hey Freeza, you killed my best friend but now let me live plz!!!1!!"
Yes, that he left with Uub wasn't a pure thing, heck it wasn't even a "good" thing, but I think that happens because Toriyama just wanted the damn thing to end and didn't think much about the ending.

LegendaryBroli · 03-05-2008

Actually frieza didn't threaten gohan to goku went Super Saiyan and told gohan to take piccolo and fly away. But heres my thing about that whole goku revenge thing. Yes anyone would want revenge but goku after going SS could have taken frieza out one kamehameha wave yet he torture frieza. If you think about it, that seemed like how vegeta rather the pre cell saga vegeta would act.

Then there is the whole vegeta/Goku thing that went on through the series. During the whole Goku/Majin vegeta fight goku said he wouldn't hold back. Yet he did holding back his transformation of Super Saiyan 3.

**Vizard** · 03-05-2008

That Freeza didn't threaten to kill Gohan doesn't mean that he'd let them all go, does it? I kinda agree with the Super Saiyan thing but Goku was in a great rage that I think prevented him from thinking properly. He just wanted to make Frieeza suffer just like he did to Goku's friends. Anyway, that is not a sign of pure-hearted so I agree with you on that.

warcrack · 03-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Green Dragon

Hell, Goten grew up for a large part of his life not even knowing his father, and then Goku leaves again later.

I always thought that this would have had a rather brutal effect on Goten's psyche and his view of his father, even though it wasn't really dwelled upon.

Goku's done selfless things, but as DKP and Legendary have pointed out, there are some examples of how his purity of heart was used more as a story element rather than set-in-stone fact. I still think he's basically a good guy, though.

03-04-2008	#64 (permalink)
Sorata (15) Super Namekian Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 502 Rep Power: 7	Re: Goku's Purity of Heart: A Lie? I doubt Goku ever thought about his relationship with Chichi. He trained his whole life just to get stronger. Also you don't know how he was acting in the times of peace. Thanks to Teleportation tehnique he could be with his family when he wanted. All this "purity" in Goku was more like stupidity. He wasn't used to higher logics. You could say he was muscles with some brain to live a happy life. Someone becomes evil knowing that his actions are evil in front of other people or the whole community. Goku didn't know that he shouldn't leave his wife and kids. They knew it and loved him despite that. All his friends accepted him just like he was. A simple minded but caring man.

03-04-2008	#65 (permalink)
Super Ultimate Gohan (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,638 Rep Power: 6	Re: Goku's Purity of Heart: A Lie? *So very true, kakarrot is noble, but inconsiderate, and misplaces his priorities.* __________________ *"Yes it has been too long, now I am back and better than ever!"*

03-04-2008	#68 (permalink)
LegendarySSJ7 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: LA, CA, USA. Posts: 2,746 Rep Power: 49	Re: Goku's Purity of Heart: A Lie? Goku has been shown to have killed for reasons outside of immediate threat, inadvertently, in a couple of occasions in early Dragonball (The Jiggler and Drum comes to mind, to be assiduous), so to say he has a pure heart is stretching it a bit, even if it's a requisite of going SS and if only one who has a "pure heart" can ride the Kinto'un by Muten Roshi's own admission in Volume 1, if I recollect. Not that it's that mysterious the notion. But I think it's just his Boo Saga characterizations that would augur or deem him "selfish". (IE: we've seen characters like Tenshinhan who started out not so affable, but not quite as pompous as Vegeta or as "animosity" spirited as Piccolo, but eventually changed... as well as in Freeza's case through insurmountably intense battle's like Goku vs. Freeza, where Vegeta's first changes reached fruition..... not to say any of these characters necessarily have a "pure" heart, but just saying). I wouldn't quite designate him as "selfish"... just questionable in the context of having a "pure heart" that's at issue. __________________

03-05-2008	#69 (permalink)
jeditokill (11) Student of Lord Kaio Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Everywhere! Posts: 179 Rep Power: 2	Re: Goku's Purity of Heart: A Lie? Even though Goku does what he does, I still think he's pure of heart because, like it has been said in previous posts, he is a simple minded, but caring man. He does love his family deeply and I don't think that training to become stronger and stronger and to protect the Earth makes him "impure", it's just that when it comes to things like staying with your family, he's just more along the lines of an idiot. And that's just Goku for ya. I don't think he ever TRUELY means to hurt his family when he leaves them to train. If anyone was selfish it would be Vegeta since, because of his overwhelming pride, he was willing to throw all he had away when he became a Majin. But back on the subject, even though Goku may do those things, I think he's still pure of heart. As Krillin said at the end of the show, "You just can't stay mad at that guy!" __________________ "By my hands, you will be cut down inch by inch. The way you have cut down my PRIDE!!!" -Majin Vegeta

03-05-2008	#71 (permalink)
LegendaryBroli (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 3,296 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 22	Re: Goku's Purity of Heart: A Lie? I sometimes doubt goku's pure of heart. I mean when frieza killed Krillien, all goku wanted was revenge. Does someone pure of heart want revenge. When it is all said and done Goku give in to his Saiyan blood. Then theres the topic of Goten. Goten grew up seven years without knowing who goku was. All he knew he had a dad. I mean the only reason Goten knew goku was his dad was probably from seeing pictures in the house. Then when uub goku up and says "I gotta go train him." I mean why not spend some time with the son you have goku. It seemed to me that all he wanted to do was help the recarnation of kid buu and not help in raising Goten. Yes it is true that he did sacrifice himself in the cell games and that was a noble thing to do but after he comes back before meeting buu he barely spends time with Goten. __________________ row row fight da power!

03-05-2008	#72 (permalink)
Vizard /gc/ addict Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,210 Blog Entries: 6 Rep Power: 223	Re: Goku's Purity of Heart: A Lie? I think you guys confuse the "pure heart" statement and take it far too literally. He was still good and didn't do bad deeds but I doubt he is 100% pure. Now you'll say that The Devilman's attack didn't work on Goku, but that maybe is for some reasons: He was a pure child so therefore his heart would be 100% pure or the attack can work on someone who posses an average amount of "evil". @Super 17: In Freeza saga of course Goku wanted revenge. I mean lets say someone killed your best friend and your son is about to die after him. Don't tell me you wouldn't get angry and think for revenge. EVERYONE would. What should have Goku done in your opinion? Something like: "Hey Freeza, you killed my best friend but now let me live plz!!!1!!" Yes, that he left with Uub wasn't a pure thing, heck it wasn't even a "good" thing, but I think that happens because Toriyama just wanted the damn thing to end and didn't think much about the ending. __________________

03-05-2008	#73 (permalink)
LegendaryBroli (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 3,296 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 22	Re: Goku's Purity of Heart: A Lie? Actually frieza didn't threaten gohan to goku went Super Saiyan and told gohan to take piccolo and fly away. But heres my thing about that whole goku revenge thing. Yes anyone would want revenge but goku after going SS could have taken frieza out one kamehameha wave yet he torture frieza. If you think about it, that seemed like how vegeta rather the pre cell saga vegeta would act. Then there is the whole vegeta/Goku thing that went on through the series. During the whole Goku/Majin vegeta fight goku said he wouldn't hold back. Yet he did holding back his transformation of Super Saiyan 3. __________________ row row fight da power!

03-05-2008	#74 (permalink)
Vizard /gc/ addict Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,210 Blog Entries: 6 Rep Power: 223	Re: Goku's Purity of Heart: A Lie? That Freeza didn't threaten to kill Gohan doesn't mean that he'd let them all go, does it? I kinda agree with the Super Saiyan thing but Goku was in a great rage that I think prevented him from thinking properly. He just wanted to make Frieeza suffer just like he did to Goku's friends. Anyway, that is not a sign of pure-hearted so I agree with you on that. __________________