Kaio

I’m going to start off by saying that I don’t believe that the “blue-eyed, yellow haired and golden aura’d” form of Goku we see was actually the depicted appearance of the legendary super saiyan(s) that supposedly appears every millennium (in the saiyan’s measurement of time, at least). This is because there actually was never a point in the manga that implied this at all. There was never any “flash back” of a golden oozaru or anything like that in manga. It is just simply said by Vegeta that a saiyan will be born who will exceed their own limits will be born every thousand years. It’s also implied by Vegeta that the saiyan would be of royalty (though this isn’t necessarily confirmed as part of the legend). To summarize, I think it’s valid to assume the legend only depicts a saiyan that would be abnormally stronger from the rest of the race, or at least have the potential too, or be blessed with a ridiculously huge post-injury evolution.

Now, it is also depicted that the super saiyans we’re violent beings. . . or, according to Vegeta, cold, ruthless warriors. Whether saiyans we’re depicted to be just violent or murderous tyrants, I don’t think is ever indicated for sure (and, yes, they’re different). If we assume Goku is the legendary super saiyan, then that would mean the legend is partially incorrect, because Goku is not a violent person or a “cold, ruthless warrior”, at least not in his base form. Or perhaps Goku isn’t actually the legendary super saiyan? We can’t really determine for sure, can we? If you really think about, doesn’t Vegeta fit quit well into this description? He’s royal blood, a violent, killing machine, originally the strongest saiyan on his planet, and he’s had some radical power jumps. . . could it be that Vegeta is actually the legendary super saiyan? But then, aren’t the super saiyans supposed to be the strongest warriors in the universe? (Not actually sure if this is stated somewhere, but they’re at least supposed to be stronger than Frieza for him to be scared of.)

My “theory” is that the legend isn’t true, or at least completely or just sort of “myth” to explain an unexplainable phenomenon. Even though Goku transforms into this “golden, glowing figure”, we know there isn’t anything special about it since basically every other saiyan achieves it later in the series. Even if we would consider the fact that it was initially intended for the series to end at the Frieza saga, why would Goku, who only partially fits the depiction, be the one to become this “legend”? And if we think about the whole concept and the later concepts of the super saiyan evolution, there appears to be a limit to their strengths. . . So, no one really fits the depiction of the legend, and I don’t think it really exists in the manga.

I will continue extending me theory but explaining what I think this transformation Goku through is. We know Goku has been trained to control his ki, and “uniting” it with his body well; we also know that with strong enough concentration or understanding, one can “materialize” things with their ki, like Piccolo with his weighted clothing and the King of Worlds when he materializes Goku some new clothes. . . or, even when people expand an aura around them. They’re different colors, usually that suit their character, like Frieza being dark colors. I think the “golden, glowing form” Goku ascends to is a manifestation. I’ve also been thinking that this saiyan “mutation” is a mixture of Goku’s magnificent ability to manipulate his ki, his ability to perform the kaio-ken technique, and his experience with radical emotions.

After Goku was being pin balled and smashed over and over by Frieza, it can be assumed that Goku was experiencing hopelessness, despair, frustration, etc. Imagine how he felt after defeating Frieza with a spirit bomb, only to find out that he survived. . . and just brutally massacred two of his friends, one being his best friend that screamed in agony just before he was blown away by Frieza, carelessly, with bliss and delight. It could be said that Goku experienced an emotion of utter hatred, sorrow, hopelessness and guilt. Guilt of not being able to do anything to save his friends or being able to defeat Frieza. . . or being able to avenge Vegeta and the pride of the saiyan race. I believe at this point, Goku wouldn’t care if his body exploded, as long as he could make Frieza pay for his selfishness. I will additionally add that it is of the belief of many religions (Buddhism, especially, which I think has greatly influenced the writer in thinking up these martial arts abilities), that if emotions are strong enough, they can greatly affect the body, negatively or positively (like being depressed weakens your immune system, or being in love makes you healthy).I will finally go ahead and summarize that I think Goku’s transformation is the result of being able to control his “ki flood gates” and his suffering that in which manifests itself into Goku’s subconscious, ideal self: An “angel”, or savior that won’t let everyone else down; what a super saiyan should be in Goku’s mind. If you’re disagreeing because the massive opening of his flood gates would destroy his organs or cause him to explode, remember what I said about how emotions can affect the body. . .

So, to summarize, I think this “golden” transformation is a combination of Goku’s mastery of his ki flood gates (generally through the kaio-ken technique), and his strong, radical emotions. But then, what about Vegeta, Trunks, and Gohan? Well, I think that can easily be disputed as the same thing. . . except, everyone else would have a harder time achieving the form because of their lack of emotional experiences and ki flood gate mastery, AND the fact that they all take the form of the glowing, golden warriors. Well, if you think about, doesn’t everyone have at least “some” control of their ki flood gates? For example, when they power up? Or when doing a massive blast, like Vegeta’s Gallic Gun? Or, even that special aura that forms around them when they fly (and which causes them to go faster too). It would take everyone else longer to achieve this self-manifestation because they would need to become way more powerful than Goku ever was in base form to be able to achieve the transformation. Everyone else would look similar (but not exactly like Goku’s transformation, of course) because he “set” an example for them. Vegeta’s jealously would only think of super saiyan Goku, which would be why his super saiyan form would appear golden and glowing, future trunks probably through Gohan’s example and Gohan through his father expectations. Now, like I said, they of course wouldn’t all appear exactly like Goku’s super saiyan form because their minds, thoughts and ideal are different from Goku’s, but yet, the is melded with Goku’s example.

I know Broly isn’t canon, but if you it would make sense as to why Broly’s super saiyan forms appear they way they do. . . and later, he appears golden like Goku after being defeated by him (ironically..?). Well, that’s the end of this tedious essay. Please tell me your opinions, disagreements, etc, and thanks for taking your time to read this jumbled can of words :^/ (good night).

Jay

Well Goku and Broly were born on the same day wern't they? Meaning technically the Lssj status is shared between them.

Canonically, Goku is the only Legendary Super Saiyan that was said to appear after 1000 years that would defeat Freeza and avenge the Saiyan race.

Incanonically, Goku and Broly are both Legendary Super Saiyans, and the Golden Great Ape is simply the nameless Saiyan 1000 years ago that transformed to Ssj while in Oozaru form. Broly's nature was cold and savage anyway, and he was given the true Lssj form but not the purpose, Goku was the one who was given the purpose and role of the Lssj. The reason why the bulky Lssj form wasn't used by Goku on Namek in the canon is because the form itself isn't canon.

Having their been only one saiyan born on the day in the TOEI universe, Goku would probably be the bulky Lssj form fighting Freeza.

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BurningVegeta

Son Goku was pretty ruthless in Dragonball itself, only later on in the series where Son Goku begins to act selflessly. He killed without remorse: like true Saiyan as you described.

Ki Flood Gates. I don’t like that term as to me it seem like everyone has them in Dragonball and that would be true. Having a suppressed power level would have use for the term flood gates as the gates would be closed. Although for individuals like Nappa and an early Vegeta; and most characters from the Dragonball and early Dragonball Z manga there power levels were never suppressed. As they couldn’t be as they had no real control over the Ki. They could implement Ki waves and create explosions but no real Ki control like that of a Genkai Dama. Meaning they were constantly emitting energy, with no purpose.

In order for me to have a full discussion on the Legendary Super Saiyan’s true title-holder, this needs to be in the GT section.

Good post…

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Madness

No.

I think you missed the meaning of the legend. A Super Saiyan is a warrior of rage, exactly what Son Goku was preceeding his transformation. He was struggling to control himself after his transformation and it was immediately obvious that this was THE Super Saiyan!

Also, I don't like the "Ki Flood Gates" theory as it smacks too much of Naruto's Gates. I don't think it works in DBZ terms.

The utmost thing that must be kept in mind whilst thinking about the Super Saiyan state is that Akira Toriyama only meant for Son Goku to access the Super Saiyan state. He was meant to be the only Super Saiyan and the strongest in the Universe. He was also meant to destroy himself with his own power; he did. Namek.

Son Goku is the Legendary Super Saiyan, and nothing will change that.

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Broly

Actually, Freeza destroyed the Planet Namek. It's true that Goku is the Legendary Super Saiyan as depicted by Akira Toriyama. Broly was made out to be the "true LSSj" because Toriyama revealed more than one Super Saiyan in the manga. They created Broly as an "explanation" for that mistake to show what the LSSj was really supposed to be.

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Madness

Well yes, Freeza destroyed Namek. But why did he destroy Namek? He was outclassed by Son and he saw the only way out was to destroy the planet.

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Super Ultimate Gohan

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SaiyajinPerfection

Not Toei, Bird Studios and Toriyama's editor. Toriyama got the heat to continue the manga series, even after he'd made Goku gain the status of the galaxy's strongest warrior.

I also hate using Naruto terms in for Dragon Ball. Gohan has a hidden reserve, and Goku's hidden reserve was awakened when he turned into a Super Saiyan, and the truth is that Goku had no more hidden reserves after he became Super Saiyan 3. This explains why he couldn't defeat Buu, and he neede to have his energy restored by Porunga in order to unleash the Genki Dama. Goku had always been able to train to become stronger and defeat his opponents before he'd achieved Super Saiyan 3. People may argue with me about Goku reaching his limit in the fight with Cell, but you also have to realize that Goku knew he couldn't defeat Cell if he tried, and also his training for a full year (ROSAT) was focus on Gohan's training and not his own.

The consistency of Dragon Ball as far as I'm concerned ends at the Furiza arc. It's kind of hard to explain, but if you look at the big picture, everything pre-Furiza arc is literally: the story depicting the rise of a Super Saiyan:

*Pre-Dragon Ball is the origin of the "big picture" story. It's the begining of the life of Goku, who will become the legendary Super Saiyan.

*Volumes 1-16 of the manga lays down the blue-prints of his quest for ultimate power. Everything from the Tenkaichi Budokai to the defeat of Piccolo Daimao and Piccolo Jr (strongest person on Earth) is related. It shows his quest for greater power.

*The Saiyan arc comes (volumes 17-20), he is shown to defeat the strongest Saiyan. And Goku doesn't have to fight a ton of Saiyans to prove that he's the best, he just had to defeat the strongest, and he did.

*Furiza arc depicts his final steps in becoming a Super Saiyan, and was supposed to depict the Super Saiyan's self-destruction like in the original legend. If Toriyama didn't continue with the series, this is how the story would've ended.

*Everything after the Furiza arc is completely disjointed from the rest of the series. The Dragon Balls (the primary concept in the whole story) don't even play a major role after the Furiza Arc. They don't even play a part AT ALL in the Cell arc, other then reviving everyone whom Cell kills in the series. It's all about ascending the Super Saiyan in the Cell and Buu arcs, which doesn't really make much sense because the "big picture" series pre-Cell arc was so focused on the Super Saiyan legend, and how the Super Saiyan was the strongest status in the Universe. Toriyama just kinda had to create something new, so he simply modified the Super Saiyan, saying that the supposed "infinitely powerful" form could somehow be ascended and you could become more infinitely powerful than infinitely powerful.

All I can say to that is: "What The Fuck??!"

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Super Ultimate Gohan

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"Yes it has been too long, now I am back and better than ever!"

Kaio

Where does this happen? Even in his golden, glowing transformed state, he tried to “save” Frieza twice. . . no, thrice.

I’m not quit sure what your overall message is. Does this mean you’re not agreeing with me?

I actually wasn’t trying to convince every body of who the true super saiyan is/was. I’m saying the legend isn’t true because there are too many inconsistencies with the depiction and the apparent, supposed living legend (Goku), ergo is a baseless myth in my eyes.


Thank you.

I don’t think I am. I’m just going with what Vegeta, and everyone else who’s not completely ignorant to the subject, said about the legend, which was that of mixed depictions of a warrior of ruthlessness, violence, power and a saiyan that has gone beyond their limits. That is why it was briefly assumed by Ginyu that Goku was a super saiyan while flabbergasting him with kaio-ken. I don’t think there was ever any mention of the legendary saiyan being a warrior of rage, just a violent killer.


I liked the symbolic relation. . . and I believe, from my ignorant point of view from Naruto, the concepts of “chakra” and “ki” are virtually the same thing. We know the users ki circulates through their body anyway, and it’s not invalid to assume the user can/could figure out the control of the amount of ki growth/circulation throughout their body.

I know it was meant for the manga to end at the Frieza saga, with Goku being the ultimate warrior of the universe. . . which I think would extended further logic into my theory of Goku’s transformation being a exposed mixture of his ki flood gate control mastery and strong emotions. He's the only saiyan who knows the kaio-ken technique, and the only person to have mastered the technique.

Although the irony is enriching, you can take it for what it’s worth. Personally, I don’t like to believe that some force of irony is sticking their hand up the universe’s ass and controlling it. Maybe it's there from some "magical force" of the legend, or maybe it's just set-up irony from the writer. Also, I don't completely trust myself on this, but I don't believe it's stated in the manga that the prior super saiyans have destroyed themselves somehow.

Unless he wasn’t the legendary super saiyan to being with! ! Ah! Conspiracies...

SRP76

Toriyama didn't "lie to us". Goku's a Super Saiyan.

And Vegeta always considered it to be a myth, anyway. Funny thing about "legends": they aren't absolute, documented, set-in-stone newscasts. They're nothing but rumor and hearsay. In other words, probably not even close to what actually happens.

And just because any previous Super Saiyan happened to be "a ruthless killer", doesn't mean they all have to be. All that is is a personality trait. It describes the so-called Super Saiyans of the past, not the future.

Super Ultimate Gohan

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