Kenshyuk

Well, it's been reasonably inferred by many that DBZ went downhill and long became stale as hell before it desecrated itself and went into the retarded trance that is the Buu era and Toei's atrocious sequel, so what would be your gripes with the series? The anime, games, and movies included too, if you please. If I were to start, I wouldn't go and call the first five or so volumes all that acrid at all in terms of quality, because they're decent comedy and the art isn't THAT bad there, but as soon as it went into the retarded phase of random Red Ribbon thugs popping out of nowhere and began "threatening to taek ovur teh worldzrofl!1!!" Zomfg! One day! Goku goes on a journey to retrieve teh doragonboooruuuuz! He's a fucking ultimate martial arts master who fought evenly with Muten Roshi but he has trouble fighting off a random Terminator-spoof robot.. before IT SHUTS DOWN!! ZOMFGLOLZ, Gokuuuuu fitez some moar, beats up random ninjas and rapes them in the asshole with his nyoibo, but he gets shot in teh headz and we get this whole retarded "aiamtehmachineziamakillerzbutaihavetehemotionznew ayizthatok??!" bull crap, after which Goku travels some more, is threatened of his life with a shotgun when he survived being shot in freaking volume one with almost no damage and took an axe to the headz, but when a Taopiepiepie guy pops out of nowhere and beginz threatenin' him again with a slender and frankly weak-as-hell sword with no special attribute, he must... GRENADE HIM TO BITZ!! AND THEN TAKE OUT TEH RED RIBBON ARMNY... AT WHICH POINT HE'S THREATENED AGAIN FROM FIREARMS AND MISSILES BEIN FIRED OFF AT HIM!!! DID HE FORGET HE COULD LAUNCH AN EQUALLY POWERFUL KAMEHAMEHA AS ROSHI BACK IN VOLUME 5 OR SOMETHING? AND THEN AFTER ALL THAT RETARDEDNESS THAT ENSUED BASICALLY AS A RETARDED CAT-AND-MOUSE-CHASE OF ABSOLUTELY EPIC(PHAIL) PROPORTIONS AND WAS AN EXCUSE TO BRING ANTAGONISTS WITH NO BACKSTORY AS TO WHY THE HELL THEY EVEN KNOW ABOUT THE DRAGONBALLS, HAVE A RADAR FOR IT, AND HOW GOKU IS MAGICALLY WEAK ENOUGH TO BE HURT BY FIREARMS(EVEN KILLED) WHEN HE COULD SURVIVE THEM BEFORE ROSHI'S TRAINING? AND DID AKIRA FORGET HE SAID GOKU WAS STRONGER NOW..? SEEMS IT'S ALL IT TAKES FOR SOMEONE TO BE STRONGER THESE DAYS, YOU KNOW, JUST HAVE THE FUCKING SPECTATOR SAY HE'S STRONGER, RATHER THAN ACCURATELY DEPICTING WHAT SOMEONE "MULTIPLE TIMES STRONGER" THAN HE WAS EARLIER WHEN HE WAS MANY TIMES STRONGER THAN AN AVERAGE HUMAN BEING AND EVEN MARTIAL ARTISTS ATTACKS SOMEONE WITH THE INTENT TO KILL. [/rant]

That stuff aside, I felt that the short Baba mini-arc brought the whole "brains over brawn" aspect of early Dragonball and the Tenkaichi Budokai back, but it failed and stumbled on its own feet as soon as Goku started taking over and godmodded himself through EVERYONE, even his grandfather, we got enough of that in the RR arc, and bringing this to an end with fricken Pilaf was a rather foolish and stupid-as hell choice as well. Then again, everything in this arc is so "messed" up and illogical as hell, that's no surprise. I hated the whole Dr. Slump reference thing here as well, and it brought a seemingly infinite influx of plotholes that would be even more scrutinized and expanded to ridiculous proportions later on. Here's a few: Bulma specifically stated that the Dragon Radar can only be manufactured in the Capsule Corporation, and yet he makes it with machine parts from a plane not even remotely CC-associated, and it was stated multiple times in Dr. Slump that it took place in the 1980's(when the manga was serialised in Shonen Jump weekly), which is an oxymoron when it's shown to be the same universe with the DB one, which was in like... 900. o_0

The art, overall in this arc, sucks too, and as much as I do (somewhat) enjoy SOME of the fights, they're completely devoid of any thought and inferior to the first Tenkaichi Budokai which was full of (for the magazine it's serialised in) awesomeness. The 22nd one which followed, well, about the only "gripe" I really have with it would be the artwork which is retained from the predecessor(lol, Tenshinhan without his armband, anyone?), and how Kuririn and Yamcha have gotten so much stronger without ANY explanation when Roshi didn't even teach them which really rouses questions as to what really took place in those three years of timeskip which I hate, hate, hate in any manga. Everything just... goes without saying, no flow, just... a random square saying "_years have now passed blahblahblah" or a bracket doing that. The whole Piccolo thing all of a sudden was pretty weird too, how Toriyama would bring forth a new villian all of a sudden with no connection whatsoever to any of the previous events, and ultimately have him defeated by GODMODDING GOKU WHO TOOK SO MUCH ACID HIS MUSCLES BROUGHT HIS POWER OVER 9,000.

Then having Goku train with two people who are magically much stronger than either despite them being an indian Dijin-like creature that just... is stronger than anyone seen to date, no explanation or feats to back it up, he's just... stronger than Goku, and so is Kamisama, who is then surpassed time after time again in yet ANOTHER retarded timeskip and everyone getting stronger and older with no explanation, not even a remotely reasonable one, not to mention by an unreasonable amount. Tenshinhan is so strong now he forces Goku to remove his weights, Kuririn, who was so weak he was slain in a blow earlier by Piccolo's weaker offsprings, can survive a beating from the stronger Piccolo now, and even Yamcha is... well, let's not get started on that, but I may make mention of the fact that somehow the opponent he fought was weaker than a weighted Piccolo(he makes note of this, though we don't know if what he's guaging is Piccolo's full power or his weighted one) is stronger than the Tenshinhan who forced Goku's weights off of him. So overall, after several volumes of retardedness and cesspools of degeneration waded from the shallow end of the gene pool that are the Red Ribbon and Piccolo arcs, the most ownage we get would be the first two Tenkaichi Budokai's, and... nothing more, just mindless beating and blowing up things. Toriyama would again make a wrong move in having yet ANOTHER of those timeskips with nothing happening prior to the Saiyans arriving, and the whole arc in general consisted of Goku dying as a pretty blatant ploy for him to get "ololtwentytimezstrongerzomfgover9,000!!1!" and beat the villians in a Movie 13-like "If Goku can't do it, who will?" maelstorm of bullcrap after bullcrap. Vegeta surviving in the end proved to be a good turn for the series, because it brought forth the Freeza arc for which I actually have to commend Akira for, but it wasn't completely devoid of flaws. The whole arc, while not as much as the ones that came prior like Red Ribbon, Piccolo, and Saiyan, is full of plotholes and people getting ridiculously more powerful with ludicrous explanations like "ololtheytrainedfusedorhadtheirpowerawakenedby..GU RU!!!". I liked it enough as a shonen Jump arc overall, but it seems that after this originally intended ending, everything just began to enter a phase of.. suck. It took freaking forever for Freeza to be defeated with 3 Transformations and countless powerups on his part alone, and countless more if we factor in all the "zenkais" happening everywhere and Piccolo fusing, Gohan getting, well, mad, and so on, but then a random LS-like kid pops out of nowhere, begins to trample upon the "Legendary" status as a transformation that is Super Saiyan by spamming it here and afterwards with tons more to follow, and then just... slices at Freeza, his father, and most importantly, his dignity and Toriyama's for killing off a decent villian in such a manner just to "attest" to the "awesome new POWA" of the new villians to come, and when they do, after having been specifically named as "19" and "20," Toriyama just... ignores all that, has three new ones come out of nowhere in a paradox performing a retcon, and have them piss all over the Super Saiyans, after which Cell pisses all over them and the "pseudo-" Piccolo who basically surpassed everyone just to make it all the more "adrenaline-pumping" when Vegeta and Trunks come out, and just... power up, and make all of the events above look like nothing simply by pumping muscles in two retarded new transformations, after which Cell does the same, Goku does the same, Gohan does the same, and Cell does the same, and... he's defeated in the most anti-climactic manner imaginable with the aid of a distraction and Gohan overpowering godmoddage. I mean, it's not that I have those gripes with even the better arcs that happened before like Freeza, because to tell you the truth, that arc is overrated though it's certainly the best in DBZ, and it too was full of everyone just striving to surpass one another in any way that Toriyama pulls out of his ass and gives them new tiers of power by just... saying "Oh, Gohan iz mad he iz teh 133t he iz stronger than all but Piccoloz beat Freeza he forced him to transform but Vegeta iz even stronger and he iz outmatched by a ludicrously overpowered revived Goku who goes Super Saiyan and..." Freeza just gets sliced in half, blasted and left there to die when he's caught in a planetary explosion, but is somehow alive, comes to Earth for revenge, and is ultimately killed in the most anti-climactic way imaginable like all the other Dragonball villians. Buu, don't get me started on how many pissing contests I can win on how much I absolutely HATE that crappy fanservice arc full of even more transformations, fusions, and absorbtions and the villian getting eroded to a "Br***"-like friable maniac who should be locked in an asylum with all their "OlolBrolykidbuusmashbroz" fanboys who think the aforementioned characters are the best thing since SLICED BREAD. Then Buu magically comes back to life, takes off with Goku, and... series end. >_>

The anime and movies, well, don't get me started on them, particularly movies 1-4, 6-8, and 10-13. The sheer amount of times that they recylced villians(Coola, Broli) and basically came up with the same retarded story that ultimately ends with everyone down, Goku on the ropes, and then just... winning the battle somehow and "saving teh earthz" for the billionth time usually with the whole redundant Genki Dama overusage. Movie 9 was somewhat excempt from this rule in that someone actually takes the mantle and takes the villian out in a not-so-oxidized manner, but it had no twists to the plotline, no ownage fights other than SSj2 Gohan godmoddage(which I don't mind as much as the Goku-whoring, but still, a bit too overexaggerated there), and crappy budget-restricted animation. I mean, for christ's sake, it's a movie, so I expect it to be a full-length 2-hour one with likable characters, not a half-assed excuse for a plotline that doesn't involve super buff guys, robots, giant daikaiju insect-like Godzilla/King Kong, or what-the-hell-ever villian they come up with this time. The fights, for the most part, sucked too, and that's about all Toei's got going for them, what with the nonexistant plotline, emotion, DEPTH, and ACTUAL PITH. I'd rather die than watch any of them again, particularly the Broli ones which make me want to eat my insides and gouge my eyes out with a skyscraper. Movie 12 and 5 are the only ones with even half-decent animation even for its day, and both are inhibited hugely by... limited animation, grains, crappy sound-effects and lackluster script work, and most importantly, with Goku, Vegeta, or both, saving "teh earthzgalaxyuniversewhatthehellever" for the millionth time. The fights aren't exactly the best out of the lot either, given I can watch a fricken Street Fighter movie with better choreographed battles that don't involve the villian seemingly being beat by Supersaiyansuriokufifthgrade Goku but pulling a random transformation out of his ass and dominating, only to be beaten in a I-punch-or-blast-you-to-outer-space bullcrap. GT, now those you DEFINATELY shouldn't get me started on. Toei had an excuse for the infinite array of plotholes and general crappiness earlier, but with GT they didn't. They milked the franchise in an uncalled-for unworthy sequel that spanned 64 episodes of pure, unadulterated general shittiness, only like... three of which are somewhat tolerable.

As for the games, I pretty much raved on for much too long here, so I won't go too much into detail until later, but I felt only Budokai 3, Super DBZ, and some of the RPG's and fighters on the GBA(not Taiketsu, helll naww.) were worth playing, and they had their flaws, mind you, and were at best a set of the average kid's anime-based shivery videogames. Budokai 3 should have had much more Dragon Universes which was actually a somewhat amiable main adventure to acquire characters and capsules unlike in the second which, since we're not worrying about being nice anymore, sucked ass, but is BROLI seriously a better choice than the main villians like Freeza, Cell, and Buu? Uub has them too? Bullcrap, even Goten, Chibi Trunks(speaking of Trunks, why is his future counterpart not present?), or hell, even Raditz or Nappa, and hell, Reacoom even, would have made much better additions. The fighting is polished well enough from the first two so I can't really chasticise them too much for them, but there should have been more than just the "ZOMFG A+P FUR KUHMAYHAMAYHAA!1!!" and Hyper Mode being a crappy option to make requirement for the Ultimate Attacks and Dragon Rush, which too need some work, same with the character designs, costumes, and everything in general. Goku had as many costumes as he has body hair in the series, more in the case of Vegeta, Trunks, and Gohan, amongst some more, and they should have kept them in, along with the Kuriza-for-Freeza option, which was the only redeeming quality about B2.

A few examples? Goku had different Kanji on his back in different parts of the arcs in Freeza and the one that came before, and keeping them all in would have been a much better option than the generic ol' "ripped gi" crap. Vegeta had tons more armor variations than what was shown as well, namely the armor he wore in the battle against Freeza, which, rather than the ripped gi option, would have been good if they went Sparking! and made an option as, you know, just being naturally ripped and crap with damage over the fight. Gohan had tons of outfits that he had as well but didn't make it, like the outfit he wears before the Room of Spirit and Time, the capeless Great Saiyaman outfit, amongst others. Trunks should have had the long-hair thing in the first run and not as a Greatest Hits-exclusive, and rather than SSj2, you know, his ACTUAL transformations. Namely SSj types 2 and 3. IF they can make the so-called "legendary super saiyan" transformation for Broli, then they could have done it for Trunks, and if they couldn't then it'd be nice if they implemented more alternate costumes, such as, say, Bojack for Broli, which would have been a good idea, given they both "buff-up" into a hulk-like form which they could have made Bojack's transformation state and the default transformation that Broli has beforehand, SSj, Bojack's base state, and if they could have had Butta and Jheese as alternate costumes for Reacoom, or Zarbon or Dodoria for that matter, that would have been great too, but the point is that those never made the cut, and all we got is an overrated, rushed final product that hardly improved in the Greatest Hits on from what I hear. Super DBZ had its flaws also, as did Legacy of Goku II/Buu's Fury, Supersonic Warriors, amongst other games, such as *shudders* Tenkaichi/Sparking series, all the ones on the old super famicom, Playstation 1, Gamecub, Nintendo Gamecube/Wii, etc. Final Bout sucks btw, and I dare not imagine how many serious drugs Toei had to be on to have spewed such shit.[/rant]

Well, that's about all the gripes I have with the arcs, movies, and games of Dragonball, now share yours.

Btw, I see how long this has gotten now that I've finished typing it, but you don't need to do the same folks(actually, most would prefer you don't), and Power Levels should be given its own section tbh. ^_^

SaiyajinPerfection

Canon Story: Many people disagree with me on this, but Dragon Ball was a brilliant series up till the Cell saga. The entire series before had been an action-packed adventure, and the Cell saga was anything but. It was a stew of recycled concepts and quite essentially, had turned into what it is often looked at as: A fighting series. Toriyama seemed to run out of ideas by the Cell saga, and recycled his concepts such as re-introducing the Red Ribbon Army and creating a villian that was simply a composite of all the iconic Dragon Ball characters of the past. It was quite frankly, dull. And did anyone else see a connection between the Gohan vs Cell, and Goku vs Piccolo Daimao? I thought it was rather odd that both characters defeated the villain with only one arm, and both characters somewhat had some kind of "spirit" to help them. And the fact that bugged the piss outta me is the fact that everything after the Freeza saga had absolutely nothing to do with Dragon Balls, the original concept that the story was built on. Then the Buu saga wasn't that much better then the Cell saga, and was simply a display of who could become the strongest. It was rather boring, and Goku pissed me off when he chose training a complete stranger over his own family (particularly Chi Chi). I've always seen that as an impurity in Goku's heart, it is by definition: selfish.

Non-Canon Story: The non-canon side stories are completely stupid, even though I will admit, I was a fan of the driving episode with Goku and Piccolo. GT was horrible, and none of the movies really brought anything good to the series; all the villians were dull and unimaginative (Except Tullece, I liked that alternate version of Goku concept in the movie, even though the story was pretty lame)

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Shaka of virgo

I watch DB first and then Z, so I understood Freeza and Cell Saga as a continuation of Red Ribbon Army and Goku Origen.

The Buu Saga has instead no particular reason to exist most than the fans wanted more DB, still enjoyable, the Buu Saga was about to finish with Gohan Defeating SuperBuu, still the fans didnt want that, So Toriyama please the crown, here is mostly were Mr Satan have to much importance, i dont like that much, i mean Satan threatened Buu is comic relief but to do that is like a plop hole and make look the other weak.

a better end would have being the cell Saga. it went downhill if persons allready know what happen, but if one watch the show for one time and do not obtain spoiler information is one of the best animes until the End, I didnt like the End, at least the Ubb Vs Goku could have being greater, still not other anime catch my atention, manga only Alucard Hellsing.

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Train hard and enjoy life, that is the Muten Roshi way.

Shaka of virgo

About Db, goku has no control of his ki, but he is a natural warrior, and a bullet could damage him only when he is weak, like after long fights or hours of battle without eating(In DB, every defeat of Goku is due he dont have energy and need to it, only against King piccolo and Tao he is really outclass), Goku running out of energy make him vulnerable, that is why an army can threatened him(I did not do much against him), Goku fougth Equal to his master in the first tournament, strong humans apear, all master that control ki (like tao pai pai) and telekinesis(like Blue), Tao is beating by Goku, lowering his life force (ki) and making him vulnerable to his own bomb, Then in the second torunament a young gifted with high control of ki (Tien)than Goku apear,( but still a little weaker than Goku) and the pilaf return is to create a non human thread like King Piccolo, Pilaf have Dragon Radar since the Beggining.

There is logic in the defeat of any villian like Tao or Piccolo, worn out the Ki decreases, his vulnerability is greater, in Tao case I allready explain, so i think Speeding Caneko didnt get that and is a little hard in his coments.

Just some DB scans to show my respect to it

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Train hard and enjoy life, that is the Muten Roshi way.

Jay

The Buu saga for me got quite silly.

The Super Saiyan legend was an epic thing that was supposed to be rare, in the Buu Saga practically the ENTIRE family were Super Saiyans.

Goten and Trunks, Super Saiyans at the age of 6 and 7 effortlessly when Vegeta struggled for ages almost killing himself twice. For me, that was so stupid. It took a brilliant legend and turned it into a plot device.

I really enjoyed the Cell Saga in terms of Gohan and Vegeta's character development, which the Namek saga did not do as much.

Tullece was an excellent villian, if Kakarot had never hit his head as a baby... what would he have become? For me that was fasinating.

Broly was a good villian if he wasn't so overrated. It wasn't anything stupid like 6 year olds turning Super Saiyan all over the place, it was the legend of the Legendary Super Saiyan. Born on the same day as Goku, both being Legendary Super Saiyans, and both Legends finally meet for a confrontation... good story plot, if there weren't so many fanboys. 4 Super Warriors trying to take down a member of their race gone rogue.

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"The game, you just lost it."

LegendarySSJ7

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Super Cool

The fillers weren't bad. The thing I hated about the series was that Vegito Greatest character of the series diffused for no reason.

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NarutoFan

Vegetto getting everyone out of Buu, and then owning him would've been a boring end. There's your reason. =\

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Super Cool

Vegito's you know what > You.

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Kenshyuk

Lol. But anyway, to get back on topic, most of the "kills" happen in the Red Ribbon arc anyway which to reiterate I hated(aside from those animals Goku killed for food early on, but that's irrelevent), and Piccolo Daimao basically came into the series to start a retarded trend of "super"-villian after supervillian popping in and out of anywhere all with the same purpose to either gain immortality, rule or destruction of the Earth/galaxy/universe, or both..>_>

Buu arc sucked "immensely" in my eyes as well, basically being a new fanservice arc made to milk the series with its abysmal quality and generally terrible excuses to just fight, fight, fight with a bunch of retarded villians and all their forms via yet ANOTHER sordid Super Saiyan form, fusion, training, or all of the above..o_0

Cell wasn't much better either, and having literally EVERYONE "surpass Super Saiyan ololvegetatrunksgokuuugooohanshowmewhatizbeyondthe supersaiyanwallzwhomfgz!1!!" and the artwork and story basically sucking in a massive maelstorm of excuses to get people stronger whilst limiting the destruction to Earth was stupid. Cell coming back from seemingly limitless ways at trying to go about and kill him was just as bad after he literally transformed thrice and powered up all the more so many times it wasn't even funny was another of my problems, and as awesome as Super Saiyan 2 Gohan was to the other transformations, it wasn't done right, and the way the arc ended, paving way for more ridiculous Super Saiyan and fusion forms of protangonists and antagonists alike eventually stooping down to doing a mirror-image yoga dance and having your hair reach down to your knees which allegedly gets you fast enough that you can go over to the electronics store, buy a razor, and shave your eyebrows before anyone notices with an afterimage in the blink of an eye(seriously). >_>

GT, as with all the guys above, you shouldn't get me started on, at ALL, because that would mean twice the humongous walls of text a billion times the size of my first post on how much it fails and how it killed the franchise which was according to TOEI'S RETARDED KEIKAKU. Fillers too, and the influx of retarded Broli animated crap after another was what killed the series and made me die a little inside every time someone signs up under that name and says he's the strongest fictional character to ever show up in any series and how awesome he is for being a retarded Hulk-ripoff overrated WWF-fag-reminiscent fanservice character who should be locked up in an asylum and be devoured by voracious sharks in the cesspool he should have rightfully died in as early as two seconds into Movie 8...

But anyway, that's just me. And Vegeto sucks just as bad imho. ^_^