warcrack

Could you guys give me your estimates of his power level? The 10x gravity really throws me off.

And, how strong do you guys think he was by the time #19 and #20 appeared?

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ANB

After King Kai, probably 200,000 at best. Gero's calcuation's certainly put Goku near the millions and they thought Yamcha was Goku...

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warcrack

What suggests that Gero put Goku over in the millions?

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DarthVenom9808

My numbers for the humans are much lower. I have Tien around 39,000 after Kaio-Sama's training, and a little under 150,000 when the Androids appear.

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LegendarySSJ7

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warcrack

That's a good point; I should take this into account.

I don't see why so many people insist on this when I haven't been able to find a good example, by my manga. Every instance I've seen of a Saiyan making huge progress through training has had assistance in some way, and so doesn't necessarily reflect some kind of superiority:

-Goku training for the Saiyans: He goes from ~400 to ~8000. This gigantic leap is due to training in 10x the gravity of Earth. The humans had to train au natural, without any gravity boost. And their progress was impressive, even with the atmosphere of earnestness: going from the early hundreds to breaking 1000 is hard.

-Vegeta training for the Androids: He goes from being pummelled by a greatly suppressed Freeza to being able to go toe-to-toe with a Super Saiyan. Once again, this doesn't show that Saiyans get bigger leaps in training than humans; Vegeta had help from Dr. Briefs' gravity machine, where he pushed himself to his limits in 300x the gravity of Earth. In this period of training, the humans trained without any gravity boosts, in isolation; their options of getting stronger were rather limited.

-Gohan training for the Androids: Going from ~100,000 to the millions, by what I've seen in most lists. Gohan trained with his dad during these 3 years. Goku was a Super Saiyan, and was many many times stronger than his son even in base. Having a sparring partner like that is going to give you quite a large advantage to your human friends.

I'm not trying to sound like a human fanboy, it's just that I think their capacities are being underestimated.

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Cableguy15

My belief is that Tien reaches somewhere in the Neighborhood of 40,000 after his training with King Kai. He did, afterall stay longer than Goku did, so the increase in terms of multipliers shouldn't be terribly different, and that is a signifigant increase to say the least.

3 Years of hard training I think gets him into the range of hundred thousands, easily.

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Cableguy's Power Levels: Saiyan Saga

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Vizard

I think Tienshinhan was around 40,000s after King Kai's training and around 120,000 when androids appear.

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king omega

Let's see here Tien was at about 1,800 when he started Kaio-Sama's training, and he was there for about a year, and he did not notice the gravity as much as Goku did.

For the first couple of weeks Piccollo was there to train with so by the time he left he was probobly at about 6,000 or so.

Then he had a little less then a year to train with Yamcha and Chaozu.

Now lets assume he trained rathar hard while he was there, so he would be at about about 30,000-40,000 by the time he was wished back.

Then he had 3 years of training for the Andriods, in the mountians so he was probobly at about 100,000-120,000, by the time 19 and 20 arrived.

Which would mean his Tri-Beam would well above 500x his own powerlevel, when he attack Cell.

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ANB

And everyone still has no problem with that...?

Genki-Dama is only 33x stronger than the user at best (Daizenshuu power-levels; Freeza saga).

Tenshinhan is just as devoted, if not, more devoted than Goku before the android saga. He was always a better fighter but Goku came through with "strength and will-power" by BOTH of their own admission. As for the Ki-ko-ho, HERE:





Why would Tenshinhan even come? Honestly, he had to be a million when fighting Cell. Then there was 7 years. Goku wanted to fuse with Tenshinhan but Boo knocked him out. Answer me:

-Why would he prevent the fusion if Goku was in the millions and Tenshinhan was barely over 100,000??? Last time I checked, both people have to be remotely close or it's pointless (Talking base Goku here).
-Why would the author make such a huge improvement for an attack that was only 4-5x stronger than the user and make it...100x stronger?
-Why on Earth would Gero think Yamcha was Goku: Dr. Gero's Estimations

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feon2

For me, Tien is around 20.000 after Kaio´s training.

Humans has less potential than a Saiyan.

warcrack

People keep insisting upon this, but I've found no manga evidence to support it; read my post above.

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ANB

And not just that, why wouldn't Tenshinhan make at least 20-fold increase after a year? Goku was only 6-months and increased it by the same amount. In addition, Tenshinhan was stated to be training even harder.

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warcrack

^When was Tenshinhan stated to have been training harder?

Goku had no intention of fusing with Tenshinhan; he was all set with Rou Dai Kaioshin's plan of using the Potara earings with his son.

However, this does not rule out the possibility that Majin Boo was afraid of a Goku-Tenshinhan fusion (whatever the reasons may be)

This is the dialogue between Goku and Boo right after he appeared and split him in half:

Boo: You... I met you before... the one who transformed. Did you come to help them out? Fool. Can't you see that I'm infinitely more powerful than I was?

Goku: HA!! You wanna talk about infinitely more?!! Then wait'll you see what I've got!!

Boo: What?

Gohan: What?

Boo: Hee hee hee. Rubbish...

Tenshinhan: ...

This is when Boo uses his pair of legs to sneak up on Tenshinhan and knock him out.

Goku: Hey! No fair!

Boo: A legendary fighter... but one kick felled him. Don't you see? Whatever you do, you'll never even scratch my skin.

Goku: Heh. Then why the big hurry to come back in one piece? You're wondering if I'm right.

Boo: ...Heh... am I...? Or am I wondering if you have a death wish?

Goku: GOHAN, CATCH!!!

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Tyro

Never was he stated to have been training harder, but in Dragonball Volume 6, he openly states that, if he were to go through the same training regimen Goku went through, he could never hope to surpass him. But if he added a few "twists" of his own to the training, then it's possible that he could hope to fight Goku as an equal once again. Kaio-sama also stated beforehand that the group as a whole asked for "training even tougher than what you got!"