Darkprince410

Actually it does matter, as if it's shown or depicted in the manga to be different than what the Daizenshuu states, then the Daizenshuu is wrong. The manga is the first and foremost source of information regarding anything that has to do with anything regarding Dragonball.

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Fred

Oh shit I pray it doesn't turn into one of these topics...

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Darkprince410

I'm not wanting it to turn into that kind of topic either, I'm just saying when the manga and the Daizenshuu are in conflict with one another in terms of information, then the manga supercedes the daizenshuu's information.

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Fred

I know, but Final Ultima is one of those "Anime and everything else are canon too!" people. This could get just as ugly as it has in the past.

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Final Ultima

Yes, but if nothing is clear cut in the manga you go by the Daizneshuu numbers.

Darkprince410

Still, if the Daizenshuu numbers in no way fit what is shown in the manga (such as the given battle powers for Radittsu and Nappa, among others) then we cannot take those numbers at face value, regardless of how high the daizenshuu is to be held in regard.

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Final Ultima

Radditz and Nappa were never given a reading in the comic but they were in the Daizenshuu and that is the numbers we are suppose to take.

warcrack

But the thing is that the Daizenshuu contradict stuff clearly stated in the manga:

Daizenshuu
Cultivators: 1200
Raditz: 1500

Manga
Volume 18 / 2, Page 148: "It's impossible...! The Cultivars' power is over 1200...! Equal to Raditz, every one of them...!"

Fred

Wtf pwn.

(I implore you post something more productive than this in a method with merit and productivity - this contributes nothing to the topic of discussion. --LegendarySSJ7)

Sorry, I was only kidding, I s'pose you're right though, I should have said something along the lines of "I agree because..." Thanks for the warning.

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Darkprince410

Not to mention

Nappa (full power) = Gokuu (full power base): They are shown on equal footing towards the end of their fight after Nappa has calmed down, trading and avoiding eachother's attacks as if the same strength. Not to mention after Gokuu manages to block Nappa's mouth blast with his own Kamehameha, he states that the fight could go on forever (meaning that they were so close in power to one another that neither had the power advantage)

Gokuu (full power base) stated at being over 8,000 by Bejiita

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an0nym0us

for Jonny America:

i'm on your side but...........

between goku with a power level of 10 and the farmer with a power level of 5:

goku destroyed a car, thanks to his kame hame ha.

goku is an alien

2x stronger is such a huge gap:

"power level of 6" is 120% of power level of 5

"power level of 7" is 140% of power level of 5

"power level of 8" is 160% of power level of 5

"power level of 9" is 180% of power level of 5

"power level of 10" is 200% of power level of 5


the argument of "goku and the farmer" is something like this:

"yajirobee is now stronger than muten-roshi, yet he doesn't have power to destroy the moon"




for warcrack:

about the saibaimen and raditz:

even if nappa has a device and stated that saibaiman and raditz are equal, who knows when did nappa discover that saibaiman and raditz are equal. remember, saibaiman and raditz were not in the same place when nappa stated that they were equal or nappa didn't measure raditz and saibaiman power level on earth.

most important part is "not all the character's statements are true until proven by databook such as this".




for Darkprince410:

goku and nappa are not on equal footing, goku is toying nappa that's why he stated that the fight could go on forever.

it's funny that nappa can't accept the fact that goku is 8000 or over 8000.

vegeta and nappa cannot increase their power level or focus all their energy in one attack, your opinion is non-sense.



one more thing, you cannot say the databook is wrong just because of the opinion.

daizenshuu is an official dragon ball manga and anime guide and was approved by akira toriyama who made the dragon ball.

you cannot say it's wrong, since none of us here can explain why and none of us can translate that page.

is there any french or japanese here who can translate those pages?

ANB

I'm not even gonna get into this Daizenshuu nonsense because SS2 Vegeto will stick his head in (And then you roaches will have to run for it, because we fight like titans). Still, I found it interesting that Goku was dead even with Tenshinhan and Piccolo Daimyo.

But I will contribute with this: The attack doesn't necessarily need to be superior to the oppononent to kill them. The "Light of Death" is a giant screw-driver. The difference is only 1.13.

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Darkprince410

1) Nappa, Bejiita, and Radittsu have been working together since the destruction of Bejiita-sei, and when he left their company to get Gokuu to bring him back for the sake of the four of them working together, he didn't take any detours or anything. He went straight from where Bejiita and Nappa were to Earth, meaning that there's no point in time where his strength would have taken such a significant leap. When they're on the battlefield, their scouters detect one another's ki levels constantly, so they're going to know how strong they are all the time. As such, he'd have an accurate assessment of how strong Radittsu is, and since the Cultivars are artificially created to be a set battle power, he's going to know how strong they are too.

2) Gokuu stating that the battle would take forever was to himself, not as a boast to Nappa.



As for an inability to power up, please, do some research beforehand.



Nappa is shown in a physical stance indicative of raising one's battle power, and is shown later to have formed an intense aura about him that he didn't have beforehand. This alone is a sign that he's increased his battle power, but the combination of Tenshinhan stating that the ground is shaking (a sign that Nappa is powering up) as well as the fact that Pikkoro stating that he had no idea it would be so much (in regards to sensing Nappa's battle power which wasn't there a moment beforehand.)

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an0nym0us

ignorance is a bliss

are you akira toriyama?

can you understand japanese?

did you read the raw manga of takoubon/ kanzenban of dragon ball?

ok prove me that nappa used the scouter when he stated that saibaiman and raditz were equal.

it's pure statements and it's correct before toriyama approved the daizenshuu, but now it's just a character's opinion or wrong....

can you translate the daizenshuu for me to prove it's 100% wrong and your 100% correct?

stop relying on numbers alone, translate the book 7

again, it's a statement and it could be right or wrong.

goku is 8000 or over 8000 at that time

based on daizenshuu, nappa is 4000

that could be 50%-45% of goku's power and that's enough to hurt goku.

including you, can be hurt by 30% of your own punching force.



your speculating too much,

piccolo had no idea it would be so much for nappa's power because piccolo doesn't know what nappa's power can do,

it's not about sensing nappa's battle power which wasn't there a moment before hand. your only speculating just because piccolo can sense chi.

the same physical instance doesn't mean a character is increasing his power level,
does physical instance matters in increasing power level? prove me


i never thought it would be so much =/= increasing his power



power up is not increasing power level,

power up =/= increasing chi or power level


vegeta's statement doesn't sounds like he knows how to increase chi or power level:






is that a statements that know how to increase their power levels?







vegeta's statement suggests that "now he learned how to increase his power level":










what is your strange theories trying to suggests?
that nappa first learned to increase his power level before his prince vegeta.


nappa can't increase his power level!!!!!!!!!

it was not stated or proven


you did post a scan but still, your only using an empty theory from a strange opinion.


prove me that,

power up = increasing chi or power level



from the beginning of the dragon ball-saiyan arc:

only those who can hide their chi or transform can increase their power level...............

Darkprince410

1) Nappa knows how strong the Cultivars are because they are artificial constructs created with a specific battle power (that power being the stated "over 1,200") not to mention the fact that he's used them before (his brief conversation with Bejiita about them confirming this) so it's not like he wouldn't know their capabilities.

Likewise, he knows how strong Radittsu is because he's worked with him ever since the destruction of Bejiita-sei, and would have had every opportunity to scan his battle power (and undoubtedly would have)

2/3) Enough to hurt Gokuu and enough to give Gokuu a good enough fight that he'd retort that the fight could go on forever are two very different things. Not to mention the very next page Bejiita also states that it would take forever with Nappa at the rate it was going. Gokuu wouldn't have said that the fight would take forever unless he really meant it (he was saving the Kaiou-ken as a last resort technique, so he didn't intend to use it on Nappa). Then factor in that when Nappa charged at Kuririn and Gohan, Gokuu was physically unable to catch him going as fast as he could in his base form (he had to resort to using the Kaiou-ken to catch him).

This is the same Nappa that was unable to even keep up with Gokuu just a few minutes earlier (before Nappa was shown to calm down and power up), so explain how Nappa would have been able to attain such a serious strength and speed boost if he's not able to power up?

The manga scan I posted showing Nappa powering up cannot be disregarded, as it clearly shows that he is in fact raising his battle power under his own free will (which is exactly what the term "power up" means, to increase the level of power that the user has in comparison to what they had beforehand). Pikkoro clearly indicates that he had no idea that Nappa's battle power would be so high, and since he's been able to detect Nappa's battle power from the very start, the only way that he'd be surprised about it would be if it increased beyond what he had been sensing. There's nothing in the manga that suggests that Nappa didn't have the ability to raise and lower his battle power, just that until his time on Earth, Bejiita didn't have the ability.

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