Kenshyuk

But still, to say that it would take as much of an SS2(think I got it right. The form that 0wned Cell, amirite?) to survive something as meager as one nuclear blast would be preposterous in my eyes. Goku, after his training with that cat-guy and decimating the army, could take a flamethrower to the back with minor damage. And durability seems to increase proportionally, if not even faster than it, with the increase in power levels, hint, like a Goku surviving Piccolo's explosion which was very akin to that of a nuke despite his power level only being like, twice that of when he survived the flamethrower from being wounded, if not lower, or him survivng a FP blast from that other Piccolo, again with little damage, and the blast would have destroyed cities. Factor this in, and by the time that Goku fights Freeza as an SS, he may as well endure a planetary, or hell, even the explosion of a star, even, and Freeza attests to that to my memory, wondering whether the "explosion will kill him(note that he was severely wounded from the fight, and even then Freeza wasn't sure), or the vacuum of space will." I'm going for the latter, and a planetary explosion>>>>a nuke. With utter ease. It would like..erase several moons if they were to be inside the blast radius, yet it would take countless nukes to recreate the same effect. Guys like SS2 or 3, let alone fused ones, would like..endure a nuke as if a ball of cotton was thrown at the, possibly even less. But again, that's my humble opinion, and I haven't read the manga out of disinterest and utter dislike for the series altogether for years, so correct me if you wish. So..yeah, but that's my two cents. I like how everyone ignored my last argument directed at JC. lol.

SS2 Vegeto

I didn't say it would take one of Super Saiya-jin 2 level power, but rather approaching that level. The only way that Cell would actually be able to wipe out the entire solar system, since there are planets behind and in front of earths orbit around the sun, to the sides, etc, would be to shoot the sun, causing it to go supernova. It makes it out to seem that everyone else would be blown away, Gohan by the beam itself, and Cell would survive. Also, I'm no expert on the planetary explosions, but I can at least say that the planet itself doesn't contain within it any heat even coming close to that of the sun, save for the surface. Also, Freeza, at 50%, held back subconsciously in the detonation of Namek's core, instead of destroying it on the spot like he had intended, do to fear of injuring himself in the explosion.

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Kenshyuk

Yes, he was fearful of injuring himself, but what you forget is he already had taken that gigantic ball dead-on, and wasn't at his full power when in that state, so it's only natural that he'd be hesitant. But then, the fact that he survived said explosion, after being horribly disfigured by Goku's blast and his own disc that cut him in half, tells me that at 100%, at which point he is around equal to Goku in SS, he would shrug it off with little damage. And as for Cell's blast causing it to go supernova...assumption, albeit a well-founded one, but an assumption nonetheless. My belief is that the supernova wouldn't kill any of the fighters beyond Piccolo and Vegeta and whatnot, but rather kill them by suffocating them in the vacuum of space, or something. Much like what Freeza had intended to do. Because if Freeza, who was only equal to the weakest SS shown in the series, could survive a planetary explosion having been cut in half and blasted to kingdom-come, then surviving a surpernova would be no big deal for the really strong guys at this point, only problem would be like..the vacuum of space, as I reiterated.

an0nym0us

are you telling me that a moon buster produce less energy than a nuclear blast or thermonuclear blast?

i believe it produce heat hotter than the sun because it far exceeds the energy used in megaton nuclear bomb and again

quantifying the energy released in explosions is useless if "size does not indicate power" applies here.

The measured pure heat output of a gram of TNT is only 651 thermochemical calories ≈ 2724 J


TNT equivalent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nikushimi

It doesn't matter how you direct the energy of a nuke- it's not gonna make the moon tremble. In this instance, we have enough energy to physically rip through something with 1/6 the Earth's mass and obliterate it instantly. That is EASILY far more power than any nuclear weapon.

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SS2 Vegeto

KuroiKenshi: It..probably would be, because a planetary explosion isn't even a firecracker next to a supernova. Even if you consider that Freeza was injured, this is planet to..star.

an0nym0us: That depends. All at once, or over the period that it is sustained? Maybe, maybe not, in the later case, most definitely so in the former. The energy released in the explosion is still just as important, regardless of size - Castle Bravo produced far, far more power than Ivy Mike, but the diametre of the Castle Bravo fireball was actually smaller. Smaller blasts can have more power than larger ones. So, indeed, it is the intensity of power within the blast that is the issue here, regardless of size, and most certainly quantifying the energy released is important regardless of size, for smaller blasts can in fact, have much, much greater releases of energy.

Nikushimi: If you could direct all the power of a nuclear explosion towards the moon, in decent size, and maintain that power, sustain that flow of energy, the moon wouldn't be up there very long.

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an0nym0us

the main point here is joules of energy determine the heat output of the explosion same goes with moon buster.

tons of tnt in nuclear weapons determine it's size and power which mean "size does not indicate power" does not apply here because if this is incorrect, what's the point of kiloton, megaton and gigaton.

Kenshyuk

How much stronger than a planetary explosion is it, exactly?(never exactly did my homework, lulz.) Because if Cell, someone who was overpowered by an injured Gohan, could survive it, then I'd say he could too. As well as a lot of the other fighters.

an0nym0us

any explosions or blasts has joules of energy.

the normal nuke can do is to obliterate a city while the moon buster is to pulverize a moon, therefore moon buster has more joules energy than nuke because nukes power is dependent on it's size and joules of energy like kiloton and megaton.

and joules of energy detemine the heat output of any explosions

Nikushimi

If we're talking about enough nuclear weapons to blow up the moon, we're not talking about "Kamehameha vs. a nuke" anymore, we're talking about "Kamehameha vs. a shit load of nukes". And no matter how powerful a Kamehameha is, it's always hypothetically possible to exceed it in power with nukes.

That is a ridiculous argument to go into, and totally pointless. As for which is more powerful, I think it's clear as day that Roshi's Kamehameha makes any single nuclear weapon look like a spark at best.

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warcrack

In terms of destructive power, obviously yes; one nuke can't destroy the moon.

But in terms of temperature and energy intensity, we can't know for sure. Chi is not the equivalent of heat.

SS2 Vegeto

Tons of TNT determines blast power..it's blast power is equal to however many tons of TNT. You can't have..a certain blast power, and have another blast that is smaller in size, that exceeds it in blast power. In fact, I proved this point already..Castle Bravo had far more power than Ivy Mike, but the fireball was actually smaller.

And, no Nikushimi, if you could sustain 1% of the power output of the sun in a beam, and direct it at the moon, you would not need more power. No, we're talking about the power released within one thermonuclear detonation, and yes, it's clear that it has more power, heat, intesity, whatever. If you want a plain comparison, Vegeta's self destruction honestly wouldn't destroy the moon either, because it's not directed at anything, it's just a plain release of energy that spreads and fades, but it's obviously far more powerful than any of his attacks individually.

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an0nym0us

it's only an example,

were talking about joules of energy,

and that joules of energy of any explosions or blasts determine it's heat output.

which means muten roshi's kame hame ha has more joules energy than a 20 megaton nuke.

kiloton and megaton based it's power on it's joules of energy which determine it's range which means kame hame ha has more joules of energy.

nukes is not like chi blasts that can be contain in a 1 meter explosion.

again it's about joules of energy,

how many joules of energy it would take for any nuke to puverize the moon?

joules of energy of any blasts determine it's heat output.

(It would be astute to listen to SS2 Vegeto; double-posting is a habit that becomes blearing on the nerves, and transition-wise doesn't look so good. Please don't do it. --LegendarySSj7)

SS2 Vegeto

How exactly do you know that it's joules of energy exceed it in the first place? Even if it did overall, how would that prove that it was hotter or more intense and energy filled overall, since the energy is constantly leaving Roshi's body, and more is being added, then leaving, it's not like measuring energy after it is produced, it keeps coming, so then how can you gauruntee being hit by it would produce the same immediate power, as in, that level of power all at once? In addition, this isn't like measuring an explosion, the kamehameha is a continuous stream of ki, so it's power is spread out, so it need not be as intense to contain a higher quantity of energy, even - it's not the measurement of one blast, it's the measurement of a continuous release, which complicates it. In addition, the heat of ki may not even work the same way, because it is a spiritual energy, and Freeza can be injured by the heat and intensity produced from within a planet. I know that nukes cannot be controlled like ki blasts, but it's still a fact to deal with that smaller nukes actually have produced much greater power than larger nukes. I gave a specific example of this. Tell me, if the sun spontaneously fired off a beam containing 1% of it's power, would anyone here not expect it to be able to fry the moon? Well, that same power as a pure, unguided release the size of a nuke would not, because it can only destroy what it touches. But it's still that same power.

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an0nym0us

castle bravo

->The explosion left a crater of 6,500 feet in diameter and 250 feet (75 m) in depth.

Castle Bravo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



ivy mike

->The blast created a crater 6,240 feet in diameter and 164 feet (50 m) deep where Elugelab had once been.

Ivy Mike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




again, it's about joules of energy which determine it's range.

anyway it's like roshi's kame hame ha which pulverized the moon and any explosions or blasts which has it's own measure of joules of energy.


any blasts and explosions has it's own measure of joules of energy and it determine it's range, is that hard to understand. joules of energy determine the heat output of any explosion or blasts.

how many nuke it would take for the moon to pulverize or should i say how many joules of energy?

and don't use the argument that sun has no explosions, any star lives because of the explosions or chain reaction inside.

i'll be back.........