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DragonBall / Z Discuss and debate the canon events of the anime and manga by Akira Toriyama.

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Old 11-07-2007   #1 (permalink)
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Default Something I Noticed

Okay, when Son Gokou creates a Spirit Bomb to kill Majin Boo, Ultimate Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, Trunks, Android 18, Krillin, Yamcha, Bulma, Chi Chi, Videl, Ox King, Dende, And Mr. Popo all put their energy into the Spirit Bomb. And since they raised their hands to give as much energy as they could because it was their last chance to beat Boo, it had a considerable amount of their power. Now when Goku recieves the energy from all those people and it creates the Spirit Bomb, Goku said it still wasn't enough to defeat Kid Boo. Vegeta claimed that a Full Power Super Saiyan 3 Gokou could kill Boo. If this is true, then Goku's full power Super Saiyan 3 form makes him stronger than the combined energy of all the people I listed who put their energy into the Spirit Bomb. If you add the power that was given to the Spirit Bomb by Ultimate Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, Android 18, Krillin, Yamcha, Ox King, Bulma, Chi Chi, Videl, Dende, and Mr. Popo, You pretty much have someone whose power surpasses that of Super Buu Gohan Absorbed, and maybe even normal form Vegetto, probably SS Vegetto if you push it. If this is true, then Full Power SS3 Goku and Kid Boo are probably equal to SS Vegetto or Super Boo Ultimate Gohan Absorbed. Does anyone agree?
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Old 11-08-2007   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Something I Noticed

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Originally Posted by Son Gohan
Okay, when Son Gokou creates a Spirit Bomb to kill Majin Boo, Ultimate Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, Trunks, Android 18, Krillin, Yamcha, Bulma, Chi Chi, Videl, Ox King, Dende, And Mr. Popo all put their energy into the Spirit Bomb. And since they raised their hands to give as much energy as they could because it was their last chance to beat Boo, it had a considerable amount of their power. Now when Goku recieves the energy from all those people and it creates the Spirit Bomb, Goku said it still wasn't enough to defeat Kid Boo. Vegeta claimed that a Full Power Super Saiyan 3 Gokou could kill Boo. If this is true, then Goku's full power Super Saiyan 3 form makes him stronger than the combined energy of all the people I listed who put their energy into the Spirit Bomb. If you add the power that was given to the Spirit Bomb by Ultimate Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, Android 18, Krillin, Yamcha, Ox King, Bulma, Chi Chi, Videl, Dende, and Mr. Popo, You pretty much have someone whose power surpasses that of Super Buu Gohan Absorbed, and maybe even normal form Vegetto, probably SS Vegetto if you push it. If this is true, then Full Power SS3 Goku and Kid Boo are probably equal to SS Vegetto or Super Boo Ultimate Gohan Absorbed. Does anyone agree?
Do you know what post hoc ergo propter hoc means...? No one agrees :/

Srsly, the spirit bomb borrows the spiritual energy from animals, plants, even inanimate objects. If it were that easy than...shiiit. There'd be no point in wishing for Goku's energy back. Goku formed a spirit bomb with power < 60,000,000 on Namek; and Piccolo, Gohan, and Kuririn did not contribute in any way shape or form (other than causing diversions and distractions).

Speaking of Goku's energy, he was very much running out of steam. Kid Buu, on the other hand, could simply regenerate. He pushed the bomb back with all his might. Goku was too tired to make a valiant effort.

When Vegeta says "Full power SSJ3 can wipe out Kid Buu" that is true, but Goku could not access full power in his limited body. You can't just say "SSJ3 can finsih Kid Buu," that means "therefore, Goku is as strong as his ultimate attack,". That's what post hoc ergo propter hoc means. Basically, ou are trying to say Event B happened because of event A (too loose of a connection).

...

In conclusion (excuse the cliche), the Spirit bomb/Genki-Dama is not a dues ex machina. Nor can it be used to claim Goku, at full power, is as strong as his best technique. It wouldn't be his best technique than would it :P...? This is the same arguement I have been making about the Ki-ko-ho (especially the Chou version).
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Old 11-08-2007   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Something I Noticed

The Spirit Bomb was much stronger than Kid Buu.
It was a tired Goku that was the problem. Once his strength was restored the fight lasted all but 5 seconds.
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Old 11-08-2007   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Something I Noticed

I know. I don't know how nobody agrees with me. ANB is nuts with his ergo blah blah thing lol.
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Old 11-08-2007   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Something I Noticed

I only got it from a seventh edition College text book.

And yeah, pretty much Goku being tired us why it didn't work. As for Sprit bomb, again: it's not entirely reflective of the strength of the individual.
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Old 11-08-2007   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Something I Noticed

Yeah, but when Vegeta tells Goku to start making a Spirit Bomb Goku said taking a bit of energy from everyone on Earth wouldn't be nearly enough to beat Boo, but then Vegeta is like ''We are going to take more than a bit from them. We are going to take as much energy as we can.'' So we know that having the people raise their hands to give energy gives a lot more power than the regular way of just forcibly taking a bit of power. Plus, when Goku asked the people of Earth to raise their hands, one guy in a snowy area did it, and them he became really tired and said ''H-He absorbed my energy!'' So we know that when the people raise their hands to give energy to the Spirit Bomb, it takes a considerable amount of their power. I don't know if this just applies to humans, but it most likely doesn't, because it takes as much energy as it can from a person.
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Old 11-08-2007   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Something I Noticed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son Gohan
Yeah, but when Vegeta tells Goku to start making a Spirit Bomb Goku said taking a bit of energy from everyone on Earth wouldn't be nearly enough to beat Boo, but then Vegeta is like ''We are going to take more than a bit from them. We are going to take as much energy as we can.'' So we know that having the people raise their hands to give energy gives a lot more power than the regular way of just forcibly taking a bit of power. Plus, when Goku asked the people of Earth to raise their hands, one guy in a snowy area did it, and them he became really tired and said ''H-He absorbed my energy!'' So we know that when the people raise their hands to give energy to the Spirit Bomb, it takes a considerable amount of their power. I don't know if this just applies to humans, but it most likely doesn't, because it takes as much energy as it can from a person.
It doesn't apply to only Humans, because in the Manga, the people on New Namek and in the Emma-Daio's palace gave Goku their ki. That was the reason why Kabitoshin couldn't teleport Dende to Goku in order to restore his energy, because he'd given all the ki that he could to the Genki Dama, including the required amount for teleportation. So it does apply to other people, and not only Humans.
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Old 11-08-2007   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Something I Noticed

I know, I was just wondering if it just affected humans.
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