Requirements for Super Saiyan transformation? - Page 3

Fred · 11-06-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegendarySSj7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonny America

No, the number was 10,000. Stated. And he doesn't go SSJ until after he almost dies.

Stated? Indeed? If by "stated" you mean "what is said in non-canon movies, let alone the Broli movies", then, yes, if that's in question, to be punctilious... you're quite right. But it certainly is not the stated number in the canon Manga.... there is no stated number. Had that been the number, Vegeta would have had a chance at breaking the Super Saiyan barrier long before his rampage on Earth with Nappa. Perhaps this (<-- click... it's pinned on the top of this forum, FYI) would be a good read on the matter that would clear up the befuddlement, and detail out the difference between "canon" and "non-canon" with merit.

I didn't mean to irritate you. But, why not.
If you're going to say that all Manga is Canon, then you are in fact saying that all Manga has no filler, which is false. The Broly Manga was filler, because it did not contribute to the overall outlook of the story line. Lots of Mangas have fillers. Naruto does manga on it's OVAs. As well as its 100th episode celebration(Kakashi's face). And besides, if something is not stated in the manga, wouldn't the next best place for assumption be the anime? [Created and directed by the same person].

SaiyajinPerfection · 11-06-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRP76

The fact that rage triggers the Super Saiyan transformation is stated.

By at least 4 different characters, on 5 different occasions. Seems like Toriyama means for rage to trigger the transformation, doesn't it?

I love the "it doesn't show Trunks and Goten!" argument. It also didn't show their parents banging, but the kids were born, weren't they?

Yes, Originally it was stated: "The legendary warrior, with a pure heart, awakened by rage."

But later on, not exactly: Gohan didn't have rage, he simply convinced himself that ascension to Super Saiyan was his only option. And who was the fourth character? Goten's is never seen in the manga, Goku Jr doesn't count; even if he did exist in the original story, he's not even supposed to be a Super Saiyan according to the Daizenshuus...... Future Trunks's ascension is only seen in the movie, however, they have a manga chapter that is a rough sum-up of the movie and Trunks was a Super Saiyan prior to Gohan's death, it never reveals how he became one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonny America

I didn't mean to irritate you. But, why not.

If you're going to say that all Manga is Canon, then you are in fact saying that all Manga has no filler, which is false. The Broly Manga was filler, because it did not contribute to the overall outlook of the story line. Lots of Mangas have fillers. Naruto does manga on it's OVAs. As well as its 100th episode celebration(Kakashi's face). And besides, if something is not stated in the manga, wouldn't the next best place for assumption be the anime? [Created and directed by the same person].

Um, excuse the profanity but..... what the HELL are you talking about? All manga is canon, There's no Broly Manga, and there is no such thing as filler in original manga. Filler is extra stories created by the anime to allow the manga to get a head start. Usually animes are produced quicker then manga is published, so anime producers need to occupy audiences while the Manga gets ahead in the story, as a result, they create filler episodes.

**Darkprince410** · 11-06-2007

Ummm, Manga cannot have filler, as the definition of filler is anything added to the anime that doesn't appear in the manga. Furthermore, there is no Burori manga, and while the battle power of 10,000 is given as to what strength he possessed as an infant, he didn't actually reach the Ssj form until much later in his life, thus meaning that 10,000 isn't high enough.

Toriyama-sensei had little to no involvement in the anime, let alone the movies, so what transpires in either of them that didn't transpire in the canon manga pretty much has no bearing on a canon based discussion (as opposed to one that fully allows non-canon material)

SaiyajinPerfection · 11-06-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkprince410

Toriyama-sensei had little to no involvement in the anime, let alone the movies, so what transpires in either of them that didn't transpire in the canon manga pretty much has no bearing on a canon based discussion (as opposed to one that fully allows non-canon material)

Well, not entirely true. Toriyama actually was on the production team for the Burdock movie, and for the Trunks story, he actually wrote it as manga chapter. However, the time and means of Trunks's Super Saiyan ascension was altered for the movie.

SRP76 · 11-06-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonkingpiccolo

Yes, Originally it was stated: "The legendary warrior, with a pure heart, awakened by rage."

But later on, not exactly: Gohan didn't have rage, he simply convinced himself that ascension to Super Saiyan was his only option. And who was the fourth character? Goten's is never seen in the manga, Goku Jr doesn't count; even if he did exist in the original story, he's not even supposed to be a Super Saiyan according to the Daizenshuus...... Future Trunks's ascension is only seen in the movie, however, they have a manga chapter that is a rough sum-up of the movie and Trunks was a Super Saiyan prior to Gohan's death, it never reveals how he became one.

Goku stated the "awakened by rage" line during the Frieza fight. Later in the fight, King Kai claims that he "he is no longer Son Goku....he is the warrior of rage, the Super Saiyan".

Vegeta tells everyone that he transformed due to the rage he felt when he reached the wall of his own limits.

When training Gohan, Goku tells him "rage wakes it up".

Gohan tells Gohan that he, Goku, and Vegeta all had to work hard and that "it's triggered by rage".

All across every saga, by many characters, over and over it's stated.

Fred · 11-06-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonny America

Stated? Indeed? If by "stated" you mean "what is said in non-canon movies, let alone the Broli movies", then, yes, if that's in question, to be punctilious... you're quite right. But it certainly is not the stated number in the canon Manga.... there is no stated number. Had that been the number, Vegeta would have had a chance at breaking the Super Saiyan barrier long before his rampage on Earth with Nappa. Perhaps this (<-- click... it's pinned on the top of this forum, FYI) would be a good read on the matter that would clear up the befuddlement, and detail out the difference between "canon" and "non-canon" with merit.

I didn't think there was a Broly manga either, but that sentence made me think otherwise. And BTW, saying manga can have no filler means that writers-block is non-existent. Quite a few Manga's have chapters unrelated to the overall plot line, whether its authentic or not does not classify to the meaning of filler.
And back to Broly - if he's only seen in the Anime, wouldn't 10,000 be the only possible number for his infant power level? If he appeared in one place at one time, and information was stated about him in that only place, wouldn't that automatically render that peace true for it's individual purpose?

Broly · 11-07-2007

Yes, Broly's pl is 10,000 as an infant. Although, Broly is a non-canon person.

LegendaryBroli · 11-07-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonkingpiccolo

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRP76

The fact that rage triggers the Super Saiyan transformation is stated.

By at least 4 different characters, on 5 different occasions. Seems like Toriyama means for rage to trigger the transformation, doesn't it?

I love the "it doesn't show Trunks and Goten!" argument. It also didn't show their parents banging, but the kids were born, weren't they?

Yes, Originally it was stated: "The legendary warrior, with a pure heart, awakened by rage."

But later on, not exactly: Gohan didn't have rage, he simply convinced himself that ascension to Super Saiyan was his only option. And who was the fourth character? Goten's is never seen in the manga, Goku Jr doesn't count; even if he did exist in the original story, he's not even supposed to be a Super Saiyan according to the Daizenshuus...... Future Trunks's ascension is only seen in the movie, however, they have a manga chapter that is a rough sum-up of the movie and Trunks was a Super Saiyan prior to Gohan's death, it never reveals how he became one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonny America

I didn't mean to irritate you. But, why not.

If you're going to say that all Manga is Canon, then you are in fact saying that all Manga has no filler, which is false. The Broly Manga was filler, because it did not contribute to the overall outlook of the story line. Lots of Mangas have fillers. Naruto does manga on it's OVAs. As well as its 100th episode celebration(Kakashi's face). And besides, if something is not stated in the manga, wouldn't the next best place for assumption be the anime? [Created and directed by the same person].

Um, excuse the profanity but..... what the HELL are you talking about? All manga is canon, There's no Broly Manga, and there is no such thing as filler in original manga. Filler is extra stories created by the anime to allow the manga to get a head start. Usually animes are produced quicker then manga is published, so anime producers need to occupy audiences while the Manga gets ahead in the story, as a result, they create filler episodes.

Actually if memory serves me right yes gohan was taught ssj was an option but it was rage that triggered gohan's SSJ2 transformation

11-06-2007	#33 (permalink)
Darkprince410 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ohio, United States Posts: 2,998 Rep Power: 52	Re: Requirements for Super Saiyan transformation? Ummm, Manga cannot have filler, as the definition of filler is anything added to the anime that doesn't appear in the manga. Furthermore, there is no Burori manga, and while the battle power of 10,000 is given as to what strength he possessed as an infant, he didn't actually reach the Ssj form until much later in his life, thus meaning that 10,000 isn't high enough. Toriyama-sensei had little to no involvement in the anime, let alone the movies, so what transpires in either of them that didn't transpire in the canon manga pretty much has no bearing on a canon based discussion (as opposed to one that fully allows non-canon material) __________________

11-07-2007	#37 (permalink)
Broly The Desolate One Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: You think I give a shit about where you think I stay? Posts: 7,543 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 33	Re: Requirements for Super Saiyan transformation? Yes, Broly's pl is 10,000 as an infant. Although, Broly is a non-canon person. __________________ $C:\Users\Silver Platter\Pictures\Broly_SSJ5_by_Gothax.jpg$