Did Any of the Humans Surpass 1 Million - Page 4

**Darkprince410** · 10-22-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableguy15

I think Tien does surpass 1 million, but not by much......

- Tien starts out with a PL of 250 at the begining of DBZ.

-After training 1 year with Kami, it is generally accepted by most that Tien was one of the strongest of the fighters fighting the saiyans, likely between 1,600 and 1,900.... Just for the hell of it, let's say 1,750 (Not neccesarily true, but it does fit the multiplier) That multiplies his power by 7 in the span of one year. This obviously wasn't normal training, seeing as Goku vastly increased his power when training with Kami as well, and add the fact that he had other fighters to spar with, it makes x7 very believable in my opinion.

-Tien and the other humans travel down snake way at a quick rate, and I would assume this increased their power somewhat, but not too much, let's just say by .5x because it is a lot of excercise..... That puts Tien at 2,625 by the time he makes it to King Kai's place.....

-Tien and the others then train durring the events of the Frieza saga, for an unknown amount of time (As far as I know anyway) Now I have heard it was only 6 days before Piccolo was wished back before, so that would probably mean Yamcha was wished back about 2 weeks after begining his training with King Kai...... This increase for Tien is small enough that it isn't worth mentioning though....

-Tien and Chaozu both train for one year, being instructed by King Kai, the man who increased Goku's power (Including Snake Way) by about 20x. Goku's actual training with King kai was less than one year though. However, Tien and the others were never training in the art of Kaioken, so that clarifies that his increase from training with King Kai is less than 20x. But, training with a sparring partner, and being trained for one year under King Kai in 10x gravity surely gave Tien a great increase. 10-15x would be my guess. Let's just say for the sake of the argument that Tien is at 3,000 by the end of the frieza saga, so multiply 3,000 by 10-15x, we'll say 15x for a maximum for now, to get 45,000. So Tien is at 45,000 by the time Trunks arrives, which I feel is realistic considering how hard he trains.

-After being informed that he would be killed by the Androids 3 years from the present, it's clear Tien was ready to put his heart and soul into the next 3 years of training. Afterall, his vigorous training combined with his desire to live should really increase his power by a good amount over 3 years..... However, we assume that he trains alone for the most part this time, so let's say a 10x increase over 3 years, which I think is acceptable to be honest. This puts Tien at 450,000 for his max. possible PL by the android saga. Now combine that with 10 days of vigorous training for the Cell Games, and then 7 more years of assumed training going into the Buu saga, and 1,000,000 is by no means unreasonable in my opinion.......

1) I doubt that any appreciable amount of strength was gained due to running along Snake Way, as it was never suggested nor inferred that this was the case.

2) Yamucha was resurrected in about 130 days after Porunga's last wish was used to move everyone from Nameksei to Earth (since the Nameksei-jin year is a little over a third the length of an Earth year), and likewise, Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu were on Kaiou-sama's planet for another 130 days. All in all though Tenshinhan was only on there for 260 days, and it was never stated whether Kaiou-sama tried instructing them in the art of Kaiou-ken or not, but Tenshinhan did say that since he knew he wouldn't be able to reproduce the same major increase in power that Gokuu did while training there that he'd take aspects of what he learned and mold it to his own style. In my opinion he took aspects of the Kaiou-ken and combined it with his Ki Kou Hou, resulting in the far superior Shin Ki Kou Hou.

SRP76 · 10-22-2007

Arrival at King Kai's to Piccolo being wished back = 6 days

Piccolo being wished back to everyone being wished to Earth = maybe 2 days (probably only 1)

Everyone arriving on Earth to Yamcha and Krillin being wished back = 130 days (they had to wait for the Namekian Dragonballs to reanimate, remember)

Krillin and Yamcha being wished back to Tien and Chiaotzu being wished back = 130 days.

That means Tien trained with King Kai for about 268 days (give or take a day or two). About 9 months.

Goku was only trained for about 88 days. That means Tien trained 3 times as long as Goku did. Even if he were only 1/3 as "good" as Goku, he should get the same 20x increase.

warcrack · 10-22-2007

Ok, I'll try to work this out:

Goes from 250 to 1750 (according to Cableguy15) in a year. It's a 7x increase. LegendarySSj7 lists him as 1900, so I know that this is a conservative estimate.

He trains for about a year on Kaio's planet. I'm going to be random and guess that he increased his PL by 10x. So he goes from 1750 to 17,500.

He probably trained during the 260 days. 260 is about 70% of 365, so that means he increased his PL by 4.9x (0.7 of 7 is 4.9). 17,500* 4.9 is 85,750.

Then there's the 3 years of training for the androids. Multiply 7 by 3 and you get a 21x increase for the 3 year period. 85,750*21= 1,800,750.

7 years pass, so his training creates a 49x increase, according to numbers. By the end of the Buu Arc, these calculations place him at 88,236,750.

Obviously, this is a flawed way of thinking; training multipliers don't work like that, unless humans are somehow better than Saiyans at increasing their power through training. But, it's still fun to think that Tien was at Freeza's level at some point in the series, right?

Devilz · 10-22-2007

It would seem that he is only training by himself (or sparring with Chiaozu) during the 3 years of training or the 7 years between the Cell and Buu Saga. Obviously, this is less effective than training with someone around your level (not to mention that he's just training on Earth with normal gravity)

SRP76 · 10-22-2007

The numbers don't flat multiply. They are compounded percentages. A = P (1+r)^t

Even figuring conservatively (in other words, assuming Tien only increases ONE-THIRD as well as Goku, and only ONE-HALF as well as he, himself, did before), Tien would be around 596,608 by the time he "holds" Cell.

To get over a million during the Buu saga, he wouldn't even have to double his power over the next 7 years.

warcrack · 10-22-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRP76

A = P (1+r)^t

Explain this formula, please. I'm going to recalculate.

Also, I'm confused as to the "260 days" time period (my memory is shoddy); was Tien on Kaio's planet for a year and then wished back to life, or was he on the planet for 260 days?

Tyro · 10-22-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRP76

Goku was only trained for about 88 days.

Goku spent a grand total of 158 days on Kaio-sama's planet. 40 days and 40 nights were used until Goku could catch Bubbles. The other 118 days were used while Goku recieved personal training from Kaio-sama.

SRP76 · 10-22-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by warcrack

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRP76

A = P (1+r)^t

Explain this formula, please. I'm going to recalculate.

Also, I'm confused as to the "260 days" time period (my memory is shoddy); was Tien on Kaio's planet for a year and then wished back to life, or was he on the planet for 260 days?

Amount equals principle value times 1 plus percentage, raised to the time power.

Start with your percentage. Say, someone gains "1 percent per day". Make this a decimal (.01). You add 1 to this decimal. That's your "1 plus rate". It would be 1.01 for this example.

Next, figure out how many times to compund this. If you get 1% per day, let's say we want to figure the gain for a week. 7 days. That would make "time" equal to "7".

So, you would take your 1.01, and raise it to the 7th power (multiply 1.01 by 1.01 seven times). Here, you'd get "1.072". That would be the increase gained in one week.

Then, you multiply that by whatever the "starting" number was. Say, Goku was 100 before training for the week. Multiply 100 by that 1.072 you have. You get 107.2. That's the "A" value, the "ending amount".

Goku's power would rise from 100 to 107 in a week, in this example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyro

Goku spent a grand total of 158 days on Kaio-sama's planet. 40 days and 40 nights were used until Goku could catch Bubbles. The other 118 days were used while Goku recieved personal training from Kaio-sama.

Yup, that's right.

So Goku got 158 days, while Tien and Chiaotzu got 268 days, and Yamcha got 138 days.

Strangely, Krillin was dead for at least 130 days, and never got to go to King Kai's...

Fred · 10-22-2007

Did any of you guys see Dragonball? Tien and Chiatzu aren't human. They were creations by Taopaipai, that's why they never age. They're basically clay beings.
I'm pretty sure Kururin and Yamcha surpass 1 million though, they both held their own on Cell Juniors(kind of). And wouldn't it make sense to train past the strength of at least Freezer? Fuck this math and crap, I'm pretty sure it's common sense.

FierceGamer · 10-22-2007

It all comes down to whether or not you believe that Tien actually has an attack that, at the cost of some of his life force, allows him to fire energy at over 1000X what he should normally be able to accomplish. Personally I don't buy it. IMO, his power level had to be close to 2 million. This would produce a more reasonable multiplier of 50X.

SRP76 · 10-22-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonny America

Tien and Chiatzu aren't human. They were creations by Taopaipai, that's why they never age. They're basically clay beings.

And just where did you get this?

No, it wasn't in the manga. It also wasn't in the anime. So, where?

ANB · 10-22-2007

All-right, now I get serious,

~~I'll post scans of the encounter with Buu if you guys really want me to.~~

I'll just post them NAO:

1) Buu plans the entire scene from the start, distracting Gohan and then firing at Dende. He does not expect Tenshinhan:

2) It's "beyond" you...? I thought that attack was a freakin' dues ex machina! Don't let Goku hog all the glory.

3) Just to prove fusing with someone 60x weaker than you is pointless...

If Goku's kiri is </=800, Tenshihan has to be like 457 at the least. Buu clearly knew only fighters of similar power-range could fuse (Which is why he left Hercule and Dende, he's brilliant). In addition, even IF Tenshinhan was in the hundred-thousands, Goku wouldn't have considered him. Look at this direct quote from volume 25: "Tenshinhan's out cold!"*, and, "Heh. Then why the big worry to come back in one piece...? You're wondering if I'm right"**. Then, Buu goes and kicks Triclops before he even attempts to merge with Gohan (In other words, he wanted to eliminate ALL possible threats).

*=He wouldn't even say that unless he was, even remotely, close to his power. Goku's base is obviously in the XX-millions by Buu (Having trained with 10-ton weights and dodgin Yakon's swipes).

He wouldn't even consider Triclops if he was, as Legendary claims, <120,000. It'd pretty much be the same as a fusion with Dende (Who had a bright flight-aura that startled Frieza; definitely above 1,000).

**=Buu saw what the twerps could do. He also, brilliantly, took note of their massive increase and the fact they were astronomically weaker before. He deduced that fusing with someone wouldn't benefit, as did Goku (paraphrase volume 26): "I might even get weaker! There's no point,".The whole point of the scene was to show Buu's exploiting of Goku's resources nad mind-raping him into picking from two impossibilities; an ultimatum.

-------------------------------------------

Okay, even if we ignore proof found in the anime and manga, power-levels, multiplyers, and analytical FACTs, think of it this way:

If Tenshinhan is just some weakling with a devastating attack:

-Goku's a coward for taking advantage of his death to train,

-Trunks is a pussy for assassinating the villains,

-Piccolo is a weakling since he uses weights and always merges with someone,

-Vegeta's a pansy due to relying on financial aid (zenkais, transformations),

-Gohan is pathetic since he doesn't train and just goes *Zipwoopa!* unlock my potential, sensei...!

...He's liket this guy:

Sagara Sanosuke, from Kishimoto's Rurouni Kenshin. They both have a trademark attack that is modified and upgraded several times. Both started as misguided anti-heroes, putting up a decent fight against their series' main character, but once things got serious they were almost left behind. Desperate for strength, Sano devastated forests until he met a monk, who taught him the Futae no kiwame. With it, he could shatter boulders and cause major collateral damage. Sano was immediately recognized even from those who scoffed him before. And even before learning Futae no kiwame, with will-power alone he made a whole-hearted comeback (but still lost), vowing to get stronger.

10-22-2007

Uub!
Don't forget he's born in Earth,so he's a human.

warcrack · 10-22-2007

We meant humans besides Uub.And ANB... lol. Do you mind posting some more/better scans of Tien's encounter with Buu?

Fred · 10-23-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRP76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonny America

Tien and Chiatzu aren't human. They were creations by Taopaipai, that's why they never age. They're basically clay beings.

And just where did you get this?

No, it wasn't in the manga. It also wasn't in the anime. So, where?

Yes...
It was in the anime...Shit Tao doesn't say this, the Crane Master says it, he states this in thought while Tienshenhan fights Chun-Sama. Or around there. He definitely said this.

10-22-2007	#47 (permalink)
SRP76 (23) Final Warrior Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,341 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 39	Re: Did Any of the Humans Surpass 1 Million Arrival at King Kai's to Piccolo being wished back = 6 days Piccolo being wished back to everyone being wished to Earth = maybe 2 days (probably only 1) Everyone arriving on Earth to Yamcha and Krillin being wished back = 130 days (they had to wait for the Namekian Dragonballs to reanimate, remember) Krillin and Yamcha being wished back to Tien and Chiaotzu being wished back = 130 days. That means Tien trained with King Kai for about 268 days (give or take a day or two). About 9 months. Goku was only trained for about 88 days. That means Tien trained 3 times as long as Goku did. Even if he were only 1/3 as "good" as Goku, he should get the same 20x increase.

10-22-2007	#48 (permalink)
warcrack (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 1,309 Rep Power: 10	Re: Did Any of the Humans Surpass 1 Million Ok, I'll try to work this out: Goes from 250 to 1750 (according to Cableguy15) in a year. It's a 7x increase. LegendarySSj7 lists him as 1900, so I know that this is a conservative estimate. He trains for about a year on Kaio's planet. I'm going to be random and guess that he increased his PL by 10x. So he goes from 1750 to 17,500. He probably trained during the 260 days. 260 is about 70% of 365, so that means he increased his PL by 4.9x (0.7 of 7 is 4.9). 17,500* 4.9 is 85,750. Then there's the 3 years of training for the androids. Multiply 7 by 3 and you get a 21x increase for the 3 year period. 85,75021= 1,800,750. 7 years pass, so his training creates a 49x increase, according to numbers. By the end of the Buu Arc, these calculations place him at 88,236,750.* Obviously, this is a flawed way of thinking; training multipliers don't work like that, unless humans are somehow better than Saiyans at increasing their power through training. But, it's still fun to think that Tien was at Freeza's level at some point in the series, right? __________________

10-22-2007	#50 (permalink)
SRP76 (23) Final Warrior Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,341 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 39	Re: Did Any of the Humans Surpass 1 Million The numbers don't flat multiply. They are compounded percentages. A = P (1+r)^t Even figuring conservatively (in other words, assuming Tien only increases ONE-THIRD as well as Goku, and only ONE-HALF as well as he, himself, did before), Tien would be around 596,608 by the time he "holds" Cell. To get over a million during the Buu saga, he wouldn't even have to double his power over the next 7 years.

10-22-2007	#54 (permalink)
Fred (25) Kami of Earth Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New York Posts: 4,060 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 84	Re: Did Any of the Humans Surpass 1 Million Did any of you guys see Dragonball? Tien and Chiatzu aren't human. They were creations by Taopaipai, that's why they never age. They're basically clay beings. I'm pretty sure Kururin and Yamcha surpass 1 million though, they both held their own on Cell Juniors(kind of). And wouldn't it make sense to train past the strength of at least Freezer? Fuck this math and crap, I'm pretty sure it's common sense. __________________

10-22-2007	#55 (permalink)
FierceGamer (13) Great Ape Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York, NY Posts: 286 Rep Power: 2	Re: Did Any of the Humans Surpass 1 Million It all comes down to whether or not you believe that Tien actually has an attack that, at the cost of some of his life force, allows him to fire energy at over 1000X what he should normally be able to accomplish. Personally I don't buy it. IMO, his power level had to be close to 2 million. This would produce a more reasonable multiplier of 50X. __________________ One day Chuck Norris walked down the street with a massive erection ... there were no survivors.

10-22-2007	#57 (permalink)
ANB (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,992 Rep Power: 44	Re: Did Any of the Humans Surpass 1 Million *All-right, now* I get serious, ~~I'll post scans of the encounter with Buu if you guys really want me to.~~ I'll just post them NAO: 1) Buu plans the entire scene from the start, distracting Gohan and then firing at Dende. He does not expect Tenshinhan: 2) It's "beyond" you...? I thought that attack was a freakin' dues ex machina! Don't let Goku hog all the glory. 3) Just to prove fusing with someone 60x weaker than you is pointless... If Goku's kiri is </=800, Tenshihan has to be like 457 at the least*. Buu clearly knew only fighters of similar power-range could fuse (Which is why he left Hercule and Dende, he's brilliant). In addition, even IF Tenshinhan was in the hundred-thousands, Goku wouldn't have considered him. Look at this direct quote from volume 25: "Tenshinhan's out cold!"*, and, "Heh. Then why the big worry to come back in one piece...? You're wondering if I'm right"*. Then, Buu goes and kicks Triclops before** he even attempts to merge with Gohan (In other words, he wanted to eliminate ALL possible threats). =He wouldn't even say that unless he was, even remotely, close to his power. Goku's base is obviously in the XX-millions by Buu (Having trained with 10-ton weights and dodgin Yakon's swipes). He wouldn't even consider Triclops if he was, as Legendary claims, <120,000. It'd pretty much be the same as a fusion with Dende* (Who had a bright flight-aura that startled Frieza; definitely above 1,000). *=Buu saw what the twerps could do. He also, brilliantly, took note of their massive increase and the fact they were astronomically weaker before. He deduced that fusing with someone wouldn't benefit, as did Goku (paraphrase volume 26): "I might even get weaker! There's no point,".The whole point of the scene was to show Buu's exploiting of Goku's resources nad mind-raping him into picking from two impossibilities; an ultimatum. ------------------------------------------- Okay, even if we ignore proof found in the anime and manga, power-levels, multiplyers, and analytical FACTs, think of it this way: If Tenshinhan is just some weakling with a devastating attack: -Goku's a coward* for taking advantage of his death to train, -Trunks is a pussy for assassinating the villains, -Piccolo is a weakling since he uses weights and always merges with someone, -Vegeta's a pansy due to relying on financial aid (zenkais, transformations), -Gohan is pathetic since he doesn't train and just goes Zipwoopa! unlock my potential, sensei...! ...He's liket this guy: Sagara Sanosuke, from Kishimoto's Rurouni Kenshin. They both have a trademark attack that is modified and upgraded several times. Both started as misguided anti-heroes, putting up a decent fight against their series' main character, but once things got serious they were almost left behind. Desperate for strength, Sano devastated forests until he met a monk, who taught him the Futae no kiwame. With it, he could shatter boulders and cause major collateral damage. Sano was immediately recognized even from those who scoffed him before. And even before learning Futae no kiwame, with will-power alone he made a whole-hearted comeback (but still lost), vowing to get stronger. __________________

10-22-2007	#58 (permalink)
Ultimate_Gohan Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Did Any of the Humans Surpass 1 Million Uub! Don't forget he's born in Earth,so he's a human.

10-22-2007	#59 (permalink)
warcrack (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 1,309 Rep Power: 10	Re: Did Any of the Humans Surpass 1 Million We meant humans besides Uub.And ANB... lol. Do you mind posting some more/better scans of Tien's encounter with Buu? __________________