LegendarySSJ7

Not quite sure where you're going about with that... I'm not saying that Freeza "knew" his attack, I'm just saying that since the Shin Ki-ko-ho is an attack that is not comparable to one's battle power or roof, it doesn't mean he was way above the 1,000,000 range because the aforementioned attack that didn't reflect his power was able to deter Incomplete Cell (Stage 2). Not that I think he was a regurtitation-meriting or less epic character because of that (as I actually feel he was a character that was less appreciated as he should have been in full, but that's just me), just that to onerously say he's way above 1,000,000 is stretching it just a tad. That he never projected a full-on fuzzy aura means, to me, that chances are he ever fell into a range so high are seldom.

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SRP76

He meant, do you think Frieza, in his second form, could have held Cell with a Ki-Cannon.

The Tri-Beam/Ki-Cannon/KikoHo/whatever isn't a thousand times the user's power, and it would have to be near that to hold Cell if Tien was below 1,000,000.

If the effect was that drastic a multiplication of power, his attack at the 22nd Tournament would have done a whole lot more than destroy the ring. Half the planet would have been erased.

Darkprince410

What he used in the 22nd Budoukai and what he used against Seru were not the same technique. The technique he used in the 22nd Budoukai was just the Ki Kou Hou, while the one he used against Seru was the Shin Ki Kou Hou, which basically means it's a far more powerful version of the regular Ki Kou Hou (in a similar vein to how the Chou Kamehameha is a drastically stronger version of the regular Kamehameha)

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ANB

...



B.S.

-The "Chou Kamehameha" pushed Goku 4-6 times against Vegeta, and a mere 3-fold standard (against Radittz).

-Tenshinhan's "Super" Ki-ko-ho (vs. Cell) was, as I reiterate, a rapid fire and an' ambush. He jumped at the moment Cell began gloating over himself and screamed a kiai as a scare tactic. Then, with his attention narrowed, he launched SEVERAL of his POWERED-UP Ki-ko-ho's. I know it isn't standard ki, but it covered Cell with scratches and bruises (not to mention cratering him).*

-We're not saying it's entirely base of his actual power (or at all for that matter)**

-Tenshinhan's "basic" ki-ko-ho vanqueshed the entire arena. Logically, it should be able to crumble cities powered up. Why then, as LSS7, Gpzar, and others insist, was the attack used by Tenshihan (A chou) futile against Nappa...?***

-It didn't show a fiery aura because it isn't reflective of his chi ;)

-I am apparently not a fanboy XD

*=In other words, it wasn't simply Tenshihan screaming: "*Rustle-rustle, clink, clang! Zipwooooopa!* I'MA, FIRIN MAH LAY-ZARR!!!". It was a very strategic maneuver. Not only that, he knew it wouldn't win. The whole point was to buy time. Contrastingly, he actually believed the Shin Ki-ko-ho would vaporize Nappa (Even Piccolo...!).

**=We just find it hard to believe that even IF it is based on something other than chi, it can be a thousand times stronger. Was even Genki-Dama a thousand times stronger than Goku...?

***=http://mfgforums.com/forums/p/12971/115026.aspx#11502



...Btw, I don't truly believe in all of this. As I clarified to Zer0, I'm an actor on a stage (Unless I prove you guys wrong :P which is likely).

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FierceGamer

^^Yeah, really. To have an attack that multiplies the user's strength by at least 1000X would just be outrageous even for DBZ, a show full of dramatically drastic increases in power. I'm not saying that all of you who are saying that the attack multiplied his power and that's where the strength to hold off Cell came from are wrong. I'm just saying that a more reasonable increase in power, like 50X maybe, would make more sense. For a hypothetical example, if Tien's power was actually 2 million, and the attack gave him 50X his normal power, that would produce an attack with a power of 100 million, certainly enough to slow Cell down. Numbers like that make a lot more sense that Tien having such a pathetic power level and getting a ludicrous power multiplier from his attack. He trained for years for the arrival of the androids, who were basically prophesied to bring the apocalypse with them. I have no problem believing that in 3 or so years (a decent amount of training time by DBZ standards), he got his ass moving and increased his power until it was way above the million mark. To Legendary SS7, I wasn't saying that Freiza knew the attack, but it was a bad hypothetical situation that didn't really prove my point anyway. Forget about it.

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One day Chuck Norris walked down the street with a massive erection ... there were no survivors.

Darkprince410

Gokuu never uses the Chou Kamehameha again after his fight with Pikkoro in the 23rd Budoukai (since it was referred to by name during the chant when he was gathering ki for it, whereas he never says it by name again). Why he never bothered using it again is beyond me, but if the regular Kamehameha can give a 3-6x boost in power (at least for as far as the Saiya-jin Saga is concerned), then imagine just how powerful the boost from the Chou Kamehameha could be. Then imagine the more powerful version of an attack that's already been stated to make the Kamehameha seem like nothing, and you get the Shin Ki Kou Hou.

What Tenshinhan used against Nappa wasn't anything but a Ki Kou Hou, and considering how badly he was beaten up when he fired it, it's not hard to believe that it was a severely weakened one (since it's tied with the life force of the user). It's also quite likely that in losing his arm, he lost the ability to focus the blast correctly, and in turn weakened it. He didn't know if it'd totally vaporize Nappa, he just thought that despite how beaten up he was, the blast would still be strong enough to kill him. He didn't count on the fact that Nappa was still holding back half of his strength.

As for how it played out against Seru...that's not quite right. Yes he was gloating, but Tenshinhan didn't use a kiai as a scare tactic whatsoever. He was floating several feet above Seru, powering up the attack, and when Seru sensed his ki, he looked up, and that's when Tenshinhan fired.

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SaiyajinPerfection

No human achieved a PL over 1,000,000 other then Uub. And Tenshinhan's Shin Ki ko ho is only so powerful because it draws on something other then ki. The Kikoho actually shortens the user's natural lifespan each time it's used, regular ki attacks don't do that. That's how he was able to incompacitate Cell even though Cell was infinitely more powerful then him.

And I don't think that laziness has anything to do with it, I don't think it's even possible for a human to achieve a PL of 1,000,000+ unless they're reincarnated from some hugley powerful entity like Uub. Even Kuririn's PL after having his ki awakened by Guru probably didn't exceed 35,000, and even a PL of 2,000 is outrageously strong for a human.

When it comes down to it, I really don't see it even possible that any human even exceeded a PL of 100,000. None of them seriously train after the Freeza saga, aside from Tenshinhan, but even his PL doesn't grow that much. Someone a while ago on this thread mentioned that Tenshinhan's PL in the Buu Saga was probably around first form Freeza's, first of all with that theory is that we can't tell. We actually don't see Tenshinhan in the Buu Saga (canonly at least), also secondly, people often forget that Human fighters (as opposed to Saiyan fighters) have other inhibiters other then slow ki increase. Humans don't recieve Zenkais like Saiyans do, not even Uub. And the only reason why Kuririn had such a massive increase was because he had his ki awakened and he was seriously training.

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BurningVegeta

That can't be right so Teins health was good when blasting Cell, but poor when hitting Super Buu, and Nappa that makes no sense to me it may drain his life force but its still his PL. Tein easily surpassed 1 million way before GT. Remember Tein went inside the Hyperbolic time chamber as well. Your underestaming EARTHS GREATEST WARRIORS excluding Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan, Goku, and Ubb. The humans did some damage to Cell whilst Cells was having the biggest Kamehamaha struggle of his life, people who say Tein didn't surpass 1 million and others like Yamcha and Krillen are saying that Cell wasn't getting pissed off because the humans + piccolo where effecting him, but just becuase they where trying to help Gohan. I belive it was both, they couldn't kill Cell but were helping too, same when Tein blasted Super Buu.

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SaiyajinPerfection

Tenshinhan vs Super Boo wasn't canon and neither was the "EARTHS GREATEST WARRIORS" ganging up on Cell during the beam struggle with Gohan, therefore those instances don't count. Tenshinhan actually never shows up in the Buu saga, only for split seconds here and there.

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BurningVegeta

Errrrrrrrrr i HATE this non manga and manga oh well get over. Okay then lets have it on it not effecting Nappa but effecting Cell. That can't be right so Tein's health was good when blasting Cell, but poor blasting Nappa?

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warcrack

-Tien trained for a year with Kami in preperation for the Saiyans, increasing his PL from 250 to somewhere notably above 1200.

-Tien then trained on Kaio's planet for a year in gravity that was 10x Earth's.

-In the 260 days between being brought back to life and Mecha Freeza's appearence, Tien probably trained due to his nature as a dedicated fighter.

-After Trunk's warning of the Android's arrival, Tien trains vigorously for 3 years.

-Trains vigorously again in the 10 days preperation for the Cell Games; denies a chance to train in the ROSAT.

-Trains in seclusion during the 7 years between Cell's death and the Buu Arc.

-Appears for a few moments when he saves Ultimate Gohan from death by defleting Super Buu (Gotenks absorbed)'s chi blast (note: this is not a reflection of Tien's actual strength).

In my opinion, the question is: Does all of this training mean that Tien eventually reached 1,000,000? I think that in order to find this out, we need an estimate of his PL post-Kami training, as we can use the multiplier for the other periods in which he trained.

It would also be helpful to get manga quotes of Super Buutenk's evaluation of Buu-Arc Tien, just for a reference in case it's useful.

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SaiyajinPerfection

It wasn't canon, so there are no quotes. Buu never meets Tien in the manga.

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warcrack

I believe he did, I remember reading it in Volume 41; Tien deflects a blast from him, and later on (after Goku had chopped him in half), he's knocked out by a kick form Buu's legs.

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SRP76