Devilz

Tien was probably around 20-30,000 post kai training, then take into account 3 years of preparing for the androids, and he probably trained the 7 years between cell and buu sagas, he definitely surpassed the Ginyu Force.

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BurningVegeta

Too true true, Tein must PL must have been in the millions to hold back Cell. Unless the Tein was below the million barrier and the Kikoho multilied his PL multiple times. Just think if Tein had came earlier i bet the Tri-Cannon would have killed the first Imperfect Cell. As Cell greatly stuggled to move and escape the Kikoho whilst being in his second transformation. Think about it USSj Vegeta and Trunks could have killed Cell if they wanted too, and Tein was doing a much better job than the Sayians whilst Cell has in that square hole Cell started to dribble. Tein's Kikoho then had no effect on Super Buu (a/ Gotenks and Piccolo) Super Buu just smiled. As Goku was willing to fusion with him i doubt Goku would have wanted to fusion with him unless he was in his millions, if not Goku would have douted the idea like he did with Hercule.

Remeber Tein's "goal" was to surpass Goku, he would never stop tarining as he would hope to fight him sometime. This is stated after Goku's attempt to finsh off Freiza when Planet Namek blows up. Tein would be the only human minusing Uub to surpass 1 million. From between his attack on Cell to his assult on Super Buu he must have been able to reach and surpass a PL of 1 million. He must have as Tein never stopped training.

Don't mean to wander, but did Pan (even though shes not totally human) manage to surpass the 1 million boundary, because if she did TEIN deffinatly did...

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king omega

Yes, exactly there is no way that Tien could not have a powerlevel over a million and block Buus blast aimed for Goku, which had to be well over a million like maybe above 10 million. Plus Buu did say he was stronger but not as strong as his friends.

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deckzone3000

Krillin was already half way to passing up Recoome/Burter/Jeice, in the Frieza saga.

And the Ginyu Force may have been some of the strongest in the universe, but that was then. By the time Namek exploded, Piccolo, Goku, Vegeta, and maybe even Gohan all surpassed the Ginyu Force.

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Gohan during the cell games is a KID!
Gohan during the buu saga is a TEEN!

ANB

-So...why did they, meaning Tenshinhan and Chaozu, bother volunteering to stay a year longer...? And if your only a little more than 1 million, OF COURSE your still going to be scared of Frieza. VEGETA was, and he hadn't even seen his "full power".

-What does Kaio-sama's limitations have to do with anything...? He can't even master his own techniques.

-I refuse to belive Toriyama invented an attack that goes x200-fold. Even the quadruple-Kaio-ken, Super Kameha combo was a 4-6x increase from the base (And that attack was stupefyingly power even by Drag-on-ball standards...).

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DBAF Killer

Yes, Kuririn, Tien, and Yamcha surpass 1 million by the time of the Android saga.

Devilz

So you think they managed to increase their strength 40-fold between the Freiza and Android Saga?

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ANB

...In preparations for the Saiyajins, they increased it ten-fold in 1 year. In that period of crisis, a time-traveller comes and tells them straight-up "You're all gonna die :D" (Not to mention three years and having practiced on Kaio's planet).

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FierceGamer

^^That sounds completely reasonable to me. Tien surely surpassed a million to do that to Cell. They certainly had enough time by DBZ standards. It wouldn't even be hard to believe compared to Gohan's power increase from the hyperbolic time chamber, which was staggering.

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ANB

^Staggering...? You mean like a 13-fold zenkai (Vegeta), 50-fold SSJ multiplyer, or...144x increase for Gohan against Frieza through sheer anger...?

Clearly what drives the majority of opinions against humans is pure prejudice and favoritism.

And the bukujutsu arguement is weak too. Why couldn't that just be Toriyama's personal art style...? SSJs have yellow aura (with further lightning distinction in later transformations), Piccolo has a spikey aura that gives the impression he is "exploding", Nappa has thick, fluffy aura, and Buu's is even more abstract than that: Steam pouring out of vents. How crazy can they get?!

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LegendarySSJ7

As I've reiterated on many a circumstance (read this and read this well): The Shin Ki-ko-ho is an attack that DOES NOT reflect Tenshinhan's physical repetoire. Over the amount of times he used it, it almost killed him, clearly, and without a streak of gumption would have killed him had he used it any more than he already did. Why people just assume it's based off of his battle power and claim he's way over 1,000,000 after this has been stated by myself, other moderators who were once moderators, Admins who were once Admins (even back on MFG v3.0), and what have you is beyond me. The amount of times this has been claimed just causes it to become threadbare background talk.

That aside, yes, Tenshinhan's yielded to surmount Goku, and morbidly at that - since the 22nd Budokai. But this does not mean Tenshinhan eventually feels he is ineffectual. By the time he finishes his training on Kaio-sama's planet, he knows he's trying to keep stride with a Super Saiyan Goku now. But that's not even saying that after the Freeza Saga Arc and between the events of Mecha Freeza/Cold's arrival, there were no immediate or even metaphorical threats for 1 year and 260 days. That does not give Tenshinhan as much incentive to train (or even the exigence had when Goku was training on Kaio-sama's planet for his fight with Vegeta and Nappa). So by the end of the Cell Saga, him pronouncing that he's ineffectual by refusing a run in the RoSaT isn't bemusing to no end, finally having subsided in that respect. And yes, many who participate in these tiffs happen to go with the joist of their favorite characters, with their triggers ready. Well, I like Tenshinhan. Does that mean I think he's stronger than Kuririn by the end of the Freeza Saga Arc? No. I like Kuririn as well. Does that put him above Tenshinhan in the Saiyan Saga Arc, or even the 22nd Budokai (again)? No.

This, to me, means that he didn't get anyplace near the 1,000,000 range. I suppose what his power output is in the Boo Saga Arc is an altercation, but... I don't see it amazingly above 1,000,000 if it even was. Kuririn, I doubt it heavily even moreso. Sitting around on your laurels for 7 years does not equate to more power. Yamcha... was subdued as well. So, yes, I'd say while it may not be the most fair surmising, that none of the humans were noticeably in the 1,000,000 range if they were at all at any given timeframe (which I severely doubt, again).

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FierceGamer

Are you saying that if Freiza (Second Transformation) knew Tien's attack, hypothetically, he would be able to hold off Cell while the androids escaped? Do you really think that? That doesn't make even a little bit of sense. There are plenty of transformations/attacks that completely deplete the user of energy and almost kill them, that doesn't mean that those attacks/transformations allow the users to do impossible things. His power level is higher than 1 million, it was shown by the way he handled Cell.

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Super Cool

Like he stated the Tri beam is powerful because of the health not the PL. maybe he was in the 100,000s by the end of GT.

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Full Metal Freak

The only thing is that the Ki-ho-ho draws on the actual life force of the user making the strength of the attack much greater.

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"Science without without religion is lame, and religion without science blind" - Albert Einstein

Darkprince410

Tenshinhan holding off Seru with the Shin Ki Kou Hou in no way shows that his battle power had reached or exceeded one million. Back in Dragonball, the original Ki Kou Hou was described by Kamesen'nin as being a technique so powerful that the Kamehameha was nothing compared to it, but it meant sacrificing some of the user's life force to generate the blast. We already know by the early Z power readings that the Kamehameha can drastically increase the user's power level far above what they were normally capable of reaching (Radittsu's exclamation about Gokuu's Kamehameha for instance), so a regular Ki Kou Hou would easily outstrip that by several times (I believe that the ki output by a Ki Kou Hou is at least ten fold that of the user). Now fast forward a few years, and you see that Tenshinhan has created a far more powerful version of the Ki Kou Hou (the Shin Ki Kou Hou, in the same vein as the Chou Kamehameha).

Considering that Tenshinhan had spent a good deal of time on Kaiou-sama's planet, and probably learned some of the aspects of the Kaiou-ken (he said that since he wouldn't be able to get the same results as Gokuu did in his training, that he'd take aspects of said training and mold it to his own style), it's possible that he incorporated some of the Kaiou-ken techniques into the Shin Ki Kou Hou, thus resulting in an attack that vastly dwarfs the user's own strength.

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