warcrack

I may have underestimated Hercule a bit (6 is stretching it lol), but he is not what I would call the prime example of a non-chi-using human martial artist. I'll agree with you though judging someone like Hercule's strength is difficult under these circumstances. I put his Buu Arc PL as around 7-10 because when fighting the gunman (who probably had the average human PL of 5, as far as we're concerned), he temporarily (emphasis on "temporarily") knocked him out with a kick, which left Hercule sweating afterwards. Spopovitch lost to this incarnation of Hercule, so based on the gunman observation his pre-Majin PL was around 5-8 (depending on whether Hercule was at 7 or 10 in the Buu Arc) At the very least, his Majin multiplier was >100x, in my book.He was able to smash the 14 tiles because it took place during the Cell Saga, where he was in his prime. (Where I place him from 12-15)1.1x is not that terrible a difference for Vegeta and Goku. Dabra and ssj Gohan probably had about the same difference and look at the results of their fight.

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deckzone3000

Someone feel free to point out when it is that Raditz has a flight aura like Spopvich. I looked and didn't see it, maybe I missed it.
Awfully small difference there. Me, I'd say 1.2x is more accurate.

Did we ever see anyone with a power level between 417 and 1200 flying?

This whole flight aura thing doesn't seem consistant anyway. I've seen Nappa flying without an aura of any kind(and I believe Nappa doesn't know how to suppress his strength).

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Gohan during the cell games is a KID!
Gohan during the buu saga is a TEEN!

warcrack

I said "fight aura," not "flight aura." Feel free to point out if I'm wrong; all of my knowledge of the manga mostly comes from memory, as I only own 4 volumes of Dragonball.

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ANB

I think the Majin Seal muliplyer for Spopovitch was 12. I have a mountain or research to do before explaining.

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SRP76

For Spopovitch, it went from "weaker than Hercule" to "stronger than Videl". That's all. He didn't go from 6 to 1200. And even that "stronger than Videl" part is debatable: Videl beat the crap out of him, and broke his neck. He was just impervious to damage, that's all.

But that brings up something else: since being possessed made Spopovitch immune to physical damage, why didn't it do the same for Vegeta?!

Devilz

He's not immune to physical damage, I bet Goku could punch a hole right through him.

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SRP76

Yes, he could, but that isn't the point. The point is, would it stop him? Videl broke his neck. It is impossible to just "screw your head back on", and continue fighting. But he did it. He wasn't affected by the damage.

deckzone3000

If Spopovich was over 1000. Videl's attacks would have been like 16 punching semi-perfect Cell, or Krillin attacking Perfect Cell.

And for his attacks to not kill her, he would have to be holding back like 99% of his power. I wonder if someone like Spopovich who never had that much power would be able to do that.

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Gohan during the cell games is a KID!
Gohan during the buu saga is a TEEN!

ANB

[kakashi2]SRP76...I told u to wait till I was done with the research...But oh well...

Look, Spopovitch, correct this if it's wrong, was stated to be weaker than Hercule pre-Majin.

Post-Majin, he got PWNT by a mere human with only a month of chi-training and basic martial arts. What was he trying to do...?



Gather energy. Now let's look at facts:

http://www.myfavoritegames.com/drago...isFighters.htm

Yakon is slightly superior to Goku, his base was perhaps 1.14x weaker (Think Dodoria). Goku's SSJ multiplyer is then 4.27 (The transformation itself, NOT Goku at full power).

Let's use the common mind-set Hercule's power-level is really in the double digits (Which is absurd because everyone here has discounted Early DB power-levels):

-The machine brought out at the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai guages the force behind attacks. Let's assume, since 18 made it read like 700 (Ask Tyro), that the machine's over-all percentage is X/1000. Hercule got 137. This means his power-level, converted to decimals, is 13.7; rounded 14. Seems reasonable right...?

-Spop, at maximum possibility, has a PL of 12.28 if he could never beat Hercule. Videl is leagues ahead of her dad before Chi-Training and even the proles acknowledge this. She is easily 21.

According to the dogma spewed by the scholars of this sub-forum, Spop's level has to be "Raditz-like" after Majin Seal because of the aura and other factors. Divide:1250 by 12.28=102 (rounded). Let's attempt to apply this to Vegeta.





He's got veins popping. That only happens when a stressful tranformation occurs.If Goku's super-saiyajin kiri is 3000, and Vegeta trained as a MSSJ for 7 years (Not going to say whether he was SSJ2 or not), his would have to be at least 3750. To big...? Pfft. It should be larger. Goku was primarily training his base, which isn't theoretically going to improve the transformation (or make the "full power" higher).

Vegeta rejects some of Babadi's mind-control: "You have my body, but not my pride," and to Goku "I-I wanted to feel like my old self...!". Let's split the Majin seal in half since Vegeta apparently only used some of it:

-Super Goku=3000

-Full power=75,000 (Divided the 25-fold increase by no# of yrs=7)

-Super Saiyajin 2=Would be in the millions {>0<}

-Super Vegeta=3750

-Full power=93,750 (Trained longer than Goku, who pumped up his base).

Now, even assuming Vegeta only used half the benefit that is still x51 fold. Do you even want me to put that in extended form...?

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CLEARLY, what Toriyama originally gave Hercule sould be taken seriously. It works with Spop being 120.17 and then majin-sealing up to 1450 (Which is Radotz level strength...!). However, Videl schooled Spop so she has to be 1928.5 (I'll be generous and give her 2,000).

So you see, Spop wasn't immune:

-He had to gather energy for Buu, so he let my little Videl get in some hits.

-When he realized he got as much as he could, he set his sights on Gohan.

-He wasn't nearly at full power when fighting.

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In conclusion, the Majin Seal is x12. Your mother's corn-bread was good, have a nice evening [kakashi2]

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SRP76

Did I just see you try to convince me that Videl's power level is 2,000?

Super Cool

Someone(I think it was vegeta or piccolo) said that he was holding back so that he wouldn't get DQed. ANB that was alot so i didn't bother to try to read that much.

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Mclovin20

Shouldn't it depend on how evil they are i mean thats how babidi controls them. Spopovich was probably very evil which allowed him to gain more strength. Also vegeta was strong enough to prevent babidi from taking complete control of his mind which would mean babidi wasn't very successful in taking over vegeta so i mean maybe it didnt do much to vegeta if he manage to retain his free will.
I think vegeta claimed that he let babidi take over him for the extra strength to hide his real reason; which was to fight Goku without feeling guilty with what else was going on. Perhaps he intentionally showed off his dark side so babidi would take the bait and try and take over his mind. Maybe Vegeta had very little darkness in him so that meant their was little babidi could work with and he simply put an M on his forehead while vegeta had a reason to be a bad a$$ and not have to feel bad at the same time. I mean he's strategist, and goku pointed out he would never resort to someone's help to gain more strength, vegeta believed in honor, so yeah he simply wanted to keep his dignity and not look pathetic for being so selfish to fight goku during the crisis.

- does this make any sense lol i never understand wat i write lol

ANB

Yes.

Forgive any mistakes, I haven't read/watched the Babadi saga in two years.

1) This disproves your whole theory. How can it depend on evilness and at the same time being strong enough prevents complete control...?

2) He WAS succesful, in fact it isn't till he is goaded by Goku and Buu's chi is released that Vegeta realizes Babadi usd him for the power.

3) He himself states this...

4) Possible I reiterate that Vegeta did not realize the full consequences of his actions until Buu was born. Even then, he took Buu lightly until the initial "power-up" and moment of silence when Goku cornered Vegeta with the fact he still cared for his family.

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Mclovin20

lol i should re-watch the episodes :p i haven't seen them in ages and quite obviously don't know it too well lol :p