Mastered SSJ?

Vivi · 07-24-2007

Okay, so I've been wondering, why didn't Gohan and Goku do a mssj2? Wouldn't that be incredibly powerful?

Gazooya · 07-24-2007

Actually, yeah, it kinda would be. But, it kinda seemed like Goku had a pretty good handle on SSJ2 during the Buu saga....who knows, maybe he DID master SSJ2.

**Zer0** · 07-24-2007

It would have made sense considering all saiyans during the Boo Arc were MSSj. As CoolDude said maybe he did master Super Saiyan 2.

Vivi · 07-24-2007

So if they did, then how much difference in power do you think mssj and mssj2 would be?

Broly · 07-24-2007

Well if you look on how much of an increase there was from regular SSj to MSSj you could say a what-if MSSj2 would have to be at least enough to surpass Good Buu. [he's stronger than SSj2 Vegeta] I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be enough to match Kid Buu though.

Vivi · 07-24-2007

So around SSJ3 level then? That's interesting, because then it would have been a better transformation then ssj3 since it was so taxing.

SaiyajinPerfection · 07-24-2007

Mastered SSJ2 doesn't exist that we know of, however, mastered levels are unique because the purpose of a Mastered Super Saiyan is: in order to gain power, you have to learn to supress it.

Mastered Super Saiyan isn't inheritantly more powerful then regular Super Saiyan, the form simply enables the Saiyan to use the form with greater ease. Less energy loss during transformation, less energy loss during battle, ect. This enables them to fight longer while inflicting maximum damage.

And Super Saiyan forms are unique because they aren't a set range of power levels, the reason to this is the individual Saiyan. Vegetto's regular Super Saiyan form far surpassed Ultimate Gohan. Gotenks' regular Super Saiyan is said to be as strong as Goku's SSJ3, ect.

**LegendarySSJ7** · 07-24-2007

The SSj2 state has, by nature, been shown to have been rather chaotic and voracious, and that didn't change when Goku and Vegeta used it - they still dealt damage rather quickly and they didn't make the difference between their transformed and normal state seamless and rather base. So while the two states may have similar background with one to another, I don't believe the SSj2 state was mastered in the same sense that its predecessor was, however long Goku had to train in the form (as did Vegeta), and that it would seemingly be a lapse in judgment to do otherwise, to me, it seemed to be the same.
Goku was probably quickly moving on from that as I feel he should have and onto SSj3, so a theorem would be that he would have had to have mastered it... but, again, unique traits and similar traits that lead me to err towards the passive observation that the SSj2 state does not even seem to be 'controlled' or made into the normal or 'auraless' state on such a nonchalant sense of the word in the Boo Saga Arc makes me wonder. But, again, nothing is ever stated in stone on the matter in question and whether SSj2 or 3 has a 'complete mastery' is never shown; and filler material of any kind used to bridge such obviously cannot be used to vindicate a point or for anything in a canon debate, frankly.

Vivi · 07-24-2007

Of course it hasn't happened; I was wondering why it never did. And if it did then how much of a difference would it be from the non mastered to mastered.

Raditz The Ruthless · 07-25-2007

I don't know. I supposed when a Super Saiyan level is mastered, the user is able to fully use all their potential without much of a strain. Since they are able to hold the form longer, they can utilizie much more power than they could when just learning how to control said power.

SaiyajinPerfection · 07-25-2007

The reason why it hasn't happened was because Super Saiyan 2 hasn't been used very much at all. There's too many risks due to the aggression increase.

I bet we could count how many times SSj2 has been used in the series canonly: Let's see...

1) Gohan (Cell Games)

2) Gohan (Demonstrating it to Kabito)

3) Goku (Fighting Majin Vegeta)

4) Majin Vegeta (Was SSj at first, but powered up to SSj2)

5) Goku (Demonstration to Babidi and Buu)

6) Vegeta (Vs Kid Boo)

...That's it. Goku and Vegeta didn't even use it while fighting Buu inside his body. And the whole "warm up at SSj2" for Goku against Kid buu never happened in the Manga, he went straight to 3.

Vivi · 07-25-2007

That's irritating that AT made a new ssj form, yet he just discontinues it and replaces it with ssj3. >_<;;

Tyro · 07-25-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonkingpiccolo

1) Gohan (Cell Games)
2) Gohan (Demonstrating it to Kabito)

3) Goku (Fighting Majin Vegeta)

4) Majin Vegeta (Was SSj at first, but powered up to SSj2)

5) Goku (Demonstration to Babidi and Buu)

6) Vegeta (Vs Kid Boo)

Gohan faded from his SSj2 state after Cell self destructed on Kaio-sama's planet. Then upon Cell's return, Gohan powered up to the SSj2 state again. You might also want to count Cell's SSj2-like state as a SSj2 transformation.

Goku used the SSj2 state for a few seconds against Yakon.

SSj2 Vegetto also took on a SSj2-like aura, but that can be chocked up to one's opinion about if he were a SSj2 for a second upon the initial transformation or not.

SaiyajinPerfection · 07-25-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyro

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonkingpiccolo

1) Gohan (Cell Games)
2) Gohan (Demonstrating it to Kabito)

3) Goku (Fighting Majin Vegeta)

4) Majin Vegeta (Was SSj at first, but powered up to SSj2)

5) Goku (Demonstration to Babidi and Buu)

6) Vegeta (Vs Kid Boo)

Gohan faded from his SSj2 state after Cell self destructed on Kaio-sama's planet. Then upon Cell's return, Gohan powered up to the SSj2 state again. You might also want to count Cell's SSj2-like state as a SSj2 transformation.

Goku used the SSj2 state for a few seconds against Yakon.

SSj2 Vegetto also took on a SSj2-like aura, but that can be chocked up to one's opinion about if he were a SSj2 for a second upon the initial transformation or not.

True, but Cell simply mimicks Super Saiyan forms, he actually isn't a Super Saiyan. I've had this arguement at Wikipedia a few times, Cell is not considered a Super Saiyan because he doesn't actually transform like Super Saiyans do. And if he was a Super Saiyan, at least his eyes would turn green, but they stay the same color.

I agree with the Vegetto thing, but I think Toriyama was asked in an interview that question, and he stated that he didn't actually go Super Saiyan 2.

I will agree with the Goku thing. I missed that transformation. ^.^'

**LegendarySSJ7** · 07-26-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonkingpiccolo

True, but Cell simply mimicks Super Saiyan forms, he actually isn't a Super Saiyan. I've had this arguement at Wikipedia a few times, Cell is not considered a Super Saiyan because he doesn't actually transform like Super Saiyans do. And if he was a Super Saiyan, at least his eyes would turn green, but they stay the same color.

I agree with the Vegetto thing, but I think Toriyama was asked in an interview that question, and he stated that he didn't actually go Super Saiyan 2.

I will agree with the Goku thing. I missed that transformation. ^.^'

I suppose it's an altercation to fly into, but I'd say Cell was indeed a Super Saiyan and not just inheriting said traits of the state (due to cluttered DNA), and that when he projected a Super Saiyan aura before doing away with Piccolo at his leisure (with sheer whim, in a few sweeping motions, perspicuously), well, the aura input reflected the amount of power he was at, at that point - that his body registers the power that has surmounted his original threshold or 'maximum' or 'roof power'; way beyond what his body could originally handle, if you would. Cell is, after all, supposed to be an 'impeccable' fighter - he's not 2/5ths Saiyan for no reason and I believe he's supposed to have ameliorated variations of the conglomeration of Namekian and Saiyan Cells as such. That Dr. Gero factored in and applied all of the aforementioned, and then some.

Again, I'd say he doesn't display the iris change because his DNA is bloated enough that he's not going to exhibit every exact trait of the transformation. Though, again, not to denounce anyone but the rebound matter has been answered a few posts up - no mastery is ever shown for SSj2, much less SSj3.

07-24-2007	#1 (permalink)
Vivi (25) Kami of Earth Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In my room contemplating life and existence. Posts: 4,358 Rep Power: 40	Mastered SSJ? Okay, so I've been wondering, why didn't Gohan and Goku do a mssj2? Wouldn't that be incredibly powerful? __________________

07-24-2007	#2 (permalink)
Gazooya (22) Super Saiyan 3 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Yoo Ess uf A. Posts: 1,943 Rep Power: 38	Re: Mastered SSJ? Actually, yeah, it kinda would be. But, it kinda seemed like Goku had a pretty good handle on SSJ2 during the Buu saga....who knows, maybe he DID master SSJ2. __________________

07-24-2007	#3 (permalink)
Zer0 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hn, None of your business Posts: 10,176 Blog Entries: 4 Rep Power: 144	Re: Mastered SSJ? It would have made sense considering all saiyans during the Boo Arc were MSSj. As CoolDude said maybe he did master Super Saiyan 2. __________________ Want a colored username? Then check out the Weekly Naruto & Bleach Caption Contests.

07-24-2007	#4 (permalink)
Vivi (25) Kami of Earth Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In my room contemplating life and existence. Posts: 4,358 Rep Power: 40	Re: Mastered SSJ? So if they did, then how much difference in power do you think mssj and mssj2 would be? __________________

07-24-2007	#5 (permalink)
Broly The Desolate One Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: You think I give a shit about where you think I stay? Posts: 7,543 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 33	Re: Mastered SSJ? Well if you look on how much of an increase there was from regular SSj to MSSj you could say a what-if MSSj2 would have to be at least enough to surpass Good Buu. [he's stronger than SSj2 Vegeta] I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be enough to match Kid Buu though. __________________ $C:\Users\Silver Platter\Pictures\Broly_SSJ5_by_Gothax.jpg$

07-24-2007	#6 (permalink)
Vivi (25) Kami of Earth Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In my room contemplating life and existence. Posts: 4,358 Rep Power: 40	Re: Mastered SSJ? So around SSJ3 level then? That's interesting, because then it would have been a better transformation then ssj3 since it was so taxing. __________________

07-24-2007	#7 (permalink)
SaiyajinPerfection (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Not where you are Posts: 1,453 Blog Entries: 10 Rep Power: 22	Re: Mastered SSJ? Mastered SSJ2 doesn't exist that we know of, however, mastered levels are unique because the purpose of a Mastered Super Saiyan is: in order to gain power, you have to learn to supress it. Mastered Super Saiyan isn't inheritantly more powerful then regular Super Saiyan, the form simply enables the Saiyan to use the form with greater ease. Less energy loss during transformation, less energy loss during battle, ect. This enables them to fight longer while inflicting maximum damage. And Super Saiyan forms are unique because they aren't a set range of power levels, the reason to this is the individual Saiyan. Vegetto's regular Super Saiyan form far surpassed Ultimate Gohan. Gotenks' regular Super Saiyan is said to be as strong as Goku's SSJ3, ect. __________________ Formerly the member demonkingpiccolo "Let's put a SMILE on that face!" REP OWED: Madness, Madness, Madness, Madness, Frieza the Tyrant, Madness, Madness, SSJBulma, Madness, Madness, Madness, The Green Dragon, Madness....and...oh wait, did I mention Madness?

07-24-2007	#8 (permalink)
LegendarySSJ7 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: LA, CA, USA. Posts: 2,736 Rep Power: 48	Re: Mastered SSJ? The SSj2 state has, by nature, been shown to have been rather chaotic and voracious, and that didn't change when Goku and Vegeta used it - they still dealt damage rather quickly and they didn't make the difference between their transformed and normal state seamless and rather base. So while the two states may have similar background with one to another, I don't believe the SSj2 state was mastered in the same sense that its predecessor was, however long Goku had to train in the form (as did Vegeta), and that it would seemingly be a lapse in judgment to do otherwise, to me, it seemed to be the same. Goku was probably quickly moving on from that as I feel he should have and onto SSj3, so a theorem would be that he would have had to have mastered it... but, again, unique traits and similar traits that lead me to err towards the passive observation that the SSj2 state does not even seem to be 'controlled' or made into the normal or 'auraless' state on such a nonchalant sense of the word in the Boo Saga Arc makes me wonder. But, again, nothing is ever stated in stone on the matter in question and whether SSj2 or 3 has a 'complete mastery' is never shown; and filler material of any kind used to bridge such obviously cannot be used to vindicate a point or for anything in a canon debate, frankly. __________________

07-24-2007	#9 (permalink)
Vivi (25) Kami of Earth Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In my room contemplating life and existence. Posts: 4,358 Rep Power: 40	Re: Mastered SSJ? Of course it hasn't happened; I was wondering why it never did. And if it did then how much of a difference would it be from the non mastered to mastered. __________________

07-25-2007	#10 (permalink)
Raditz The Ruthless (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,566 Rep Power: 6	Re: Mastered SSJ? I don't know. I supposed when a Super Saiyan level is mastered, the user is able to fully use all their potential without much of a strain. Since they are able to hold the form longer, they can utilizie much more power than they could when just learning how to control said power. __________________ "Ha, what a fragile breed of people."

07-25-2007	#11 (permalink)
SaiyajinPerfection (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Not where you are Posts: 1,453 Blog Entries: 10 Rep Power: 22	Re: Mastered SSJ? The reason why it hasn't happened was because Super Saiyan 2 hasn't been used very much at all. There's too many risks due to the aggression increase. I bet we could count how many times SSj2 has been used in the series canonly: Let's see... 1) Gohan (Cell Games) 2) Gohan (Demonstrating it to Kabito) 3) Goku (Fighting Majin Vegeta) 4) Majin Vegeta (Was SSj at first, but powered up to SSj2) 5) Goku (Demonstration to Babidi and Buu) 6) Vegeta (Vs Kid Boo) ...That's it. Goku and Vegeta didn't even use it while fighting Buu inside his body. And the whole "warm up at SSj2" for Goku against Kid buu never happened in the Manga, he went straight to 3. __________________ Formerly the member demonkingpiccolo "Let's put a SMILE on that face!" REP OWED: Madness, Madness, Madness, Madness, Frieza the Tyrant, Madness, Madness, SSJBulma, Madness, Madness, Madness, The Green Dragon, Madness....and...oh wait, did I mention Madness?

07-25-2007	#12 (permalink)
Vivi (25) Kami of Earth Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In my room contemplating life and existence. Posts: 4,358 Rep Power: 40	Re: Mastered SSJ? That's irritating that AT made a new ssj form, yet he just discontinues it and replaces it with ssj3. >_<;; __________________