Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato

DK64_MASTER · 09-12-2005

I think Master Mutiato is stronger than Master Roshi, since he was able to correctly aim the Mufuba and trap King Piccolo. Well that's the only evidence I have to go on.

There is also that quote about Baba saying that Roshi drunk from the well of immortality. But what else do we have to go on?

.MacGyver · 09-13-2005

I know that the Bird of immortality made Kame Sennin immortal, but only from age since Piccolo Damaioah could and did kill him.

Well, Kame Sennin has to be stronger. All pupils surpasses their masters at some point. Kame Sennin also knows more than Mutaito does after seeing the new generation of fighters fight. Besides, Kame Sennin has been at Korin's place too. He's also the inventor of the Kamehameha.

Doing the Mafuba doesn't mean you've got to be very strong, you only have to be able to trap the foe and to hit the container with him. I doubt Mutaito is stronger than Tien was when he trained the Mafuba. Tien would likely survive making the Mafuba, while Mutaito died from it. Since Tenshinhan was stronger than Kame Sennin which died, I don't think he would die from it. Kame Sennin only lacked the skills of hitting the container, not the strenght, and died. He must've been at least as strong as Mutaito. I think he is stronger because of the reasons listed above.

Going after the anime, Mutaito is stronger than both Goku and Kame Sennin. While Goku trained at Kami's place he travelled back in time facing Mutaito and lost to him. Since Goku lost to Mutaito it makes Kame Sennin is weaker than Mutaito. I think that isn't possible because of the reasons listed above.

DK64_MASTER · 09-13-2005

Both Master Roshi and Master Mutiatio died doing the Mafuba though. I do agree that most (if not all) pupils surpass their masters, though. I understand why You'd think Mutaito is weaker. I'm not leaning any way though. You do have valid points, although, it was hard to understand some of they (sorry).

Couldn't have Master Mutaito also be at Korin's place (was it ever stated that Korin was very old?).

I never saw the part when Goku met Mutiato. Well I haven't seen all the anime. I remember him fighting his grandpa, though.

.Teen Goten · 09-13-2005

I think Master Mutiato is stronger than Muten-Roshi. He was able to seal Daimao Piccolo unlike his pupil, Roshi

.MacGyver · 09-15-2005

QUOTE(Teen Goten @ Sep 12 2005, 10:50 PM)
I think Master Mutiato is stronger than Muten-Roshi. He was able to seal Daimao Piccolo unlike his pupil, Roshi

[snapback]458829[/snapback]

Mafuba isn't much about strenght, I think. I doubt that Master Roshi ever trained the Mafuba technique that much before using it because of the simple fact that he missed to hit the container.
I think it's more about training to control the Ki. I don't remember Tenshinhan getting stronger by mastering the Mafuba technique, all he had to do was to learn how to control the energy.

Well, Mutaito might have been at Korin's place. 1. Mutaito wasn't introduced before the Damaioah Saga and isn't mentioned because of that and 2. Korin read Goku's thoughts and saw that Goku didn't know who Mutaito was and didn't mention him because of that.

Sorry if you didn't understand, that wasn't my intention

.

.D#1Pimp · 09-16-2005

MUTAITO HASNT SEEN MASTER ROSHIS 100% KAMEHAMEHA.THE ONEWHEN HE GETS BIG AND I DONT THINK HE COULD TAKE IT.

.MacGyver · 09-16-2005

QUOTE(SHJ10 TIENCHA @ Sep 15 2005, 11:35 PM)
MUTAITO HASNT SEEN MASTER ROSHIS 100% KAMEHAMEHA.THE ONEWHEN HE GETS BIG AND I DONT THINK HE COULD TAKE IT.

[snapback]460438[/snapback]

Don't write with caps- lock. It isn't allowed. Yes, the Kamehameha give Master Roshi an advantage.

DK64_MASTER · 09-17-2005

QUOTE(MacGyver @ Sep 16 2005, 09:11 AM)
QUOTE(SHJ10 TIENCHA @ Sep 15 2005, 11:35 PM)
MUTAITO HASNT SEEN MASTER ROSHIS 100% KAMEHAMEHA.THE ONEWHEN HE GETS BIG AND I DONT THINK HE COULD TAKE IT.

[snapback]460438[/snapback]

Don't write with caps- lock. It isn't allowed. Yes, the Kamehameha give Master Roshi an advantage.

[snapback]460749[/snapback]

Who says Mutiato didn't know the Kamehameha? It was thought that only the invincible old man could do it, right? But Roshi is QUITE old, so I mean, I'm sure Mutiato had some energy tricks, since he was able to do Mufuba. Roshi had to learn it from somewhere? Or did he pull it out of his ass?

.MacGyver · 09-17-2005

QUOTE(DK64_MASTER @ Sep 16 2005, 07:22 PM)
QUOTE(MacGyver @ Sep 16 2005, 09:11 AM)
QUOTE(SHJ10 TIENCHA @ Sep 15 2005, 11:35 PM)
MUTAITO HASNT SEEN MASTER ROSHIS 100% KAMEHAMEHA.THE ONEWHEN HE GETS BIG AND I DONT THINK HE COULD TAKE IT.

[snapback]460438[/snapback]

Don't write with caps- lock. It isn't allowed. Yes, the Kamehameha give Master Roshi an advantage.

[snapback]460749[/snapback]

Who says Mutiato didn't know the Kamehameha? It was thought that only the invincible old man could do it, right? But Roshi is QUITE old, so I mean, I'm sure Mutiato had some energy tricks, since he was able to do Mufuba. Roshi had to learn it from somewhere? Or did he pull it out of his ass?

[snapback]460928[/snapback]

I think he learned it and gave it the name Kamehameha. Kame in the attacks name stands for turtle in japanese, and since he is the turtle hermit, I would suppose he came up with that technique.

Son- Gohan (Goku's grandpa) was a student of Master Roshi (Kame Sennin on japanese which means Turtle master or something like that) as well as the Ox- king. Goku's grandpa must've learned it from Master Roshi. Goku learned it right away, as well as Yamcha, Krillin and Tenshinhan later on. Jackie Chun is Master Roshi. All of these can perform the techniqie.

Yes, Mutaito must've got energy tricks since he used the Mafuba, but I don't think his were that strong. Master Roshi has lived for 300 years while Mutaito maybe 80 years or something, which means Matser Roshi have had time to train a lot more than Mutaito has, and has seen a lot more in fighting than his master has.

According to the anime though, Mutaito would beat Master Roshi easily.

EDIT: Then from where did Mutaito learn it from? Dead end.

DK64_MASTER · 09-17-2005

OH yeah, KAME means turtle. Duh, I even thought of that 2 posts back (in my mind) I don't know why I forgot that...

QUOTE
EDIT: Then from where did Mutaito learn it from? Dead end.

Maybe he was a mortal enemy of King Piccolo? Why did he confront him in the first place? Which means he must be stronger or equal than King Piccolo (not because he defeated him, but because he fought with him through the ages). But that's pure speculation.

Actually this has turned out to be a rather deep topic. Deeper than I expected. I find it very interesting.

.MacGyver · 09-17-2005

I think Mutaito might've seen others that are stronger/weaker than him fight Piccolo, which made him understand that maybe he didn't have another choice but to use Mafuba. I don't think he fought him, both Mutaito and Master Roshi are weaker than Piccolo and had to use the Mafuba.

Goku's grandpa Gohan was once beaten by Goku, but when Goku fights Gohan we find they're quite equal. Before that Master Roshi says that Goku must've surpassed him. Since Goku, Krillin and Yamcha surpassed their master too (grandfather Gohan was Kame Sennins pupil too), as well as Chaou-zu and Tenshinhan surpassed their master Tsufuru- sennin. Piccolo Jr. surpassed his "master" Piccolo Damaioah as well. This makes us come to the conclusion that all pupils eventually surpass their master in strenght and skill.

Roshi has seen much more new techniques than Mutaito did.
Not only does the master learn out all his knowledge of martial arts that he has collected and discovered during his lifetime, he does also train them more effectively. By seeing many types of training he can make the training methods even better. That makes the pupils stronger much faster than the master got strong, which means that they surpass him.
Not only do the pupils after the training possess their masters knowledge, they do collect even more and make their masters techniques even better.

That's why I think Master Roshi is stronger than Mutaito.

Explosion.of.Anger · 09-18-2005

What does master Mutaito do? Like in time,,,i dont get it.

DK64_MASTER · 09-18-2005

QUOTE(.Vegeto. @ Sep 17 2005, 06:53 PM)
What does master Mutaito do? Like in time,,,i dont get it.

[snapback]462170[/snapback]

I'm not sure what your question is, but he was Master Roshi's Teacher. Did that answer your question?

Explosion.of.Anger · 09-18-2005

Like what is the Mafuba, and if so how did King Piccollo escape and appear in Dragonball?

USSj Goku · 09-18-2005

The Mufuba wave is something that you can do to trap your opponent into some kind of jar, you should watch the King Piccolo/Piccolo Jr. saga's.

King Piccolo managed to escape because Pilaf found the jar he was trapped in from the Mufuba wave that Mutatio used on him and released him.

09-12-2005	#1 (permalink)
DK64_MASTER (12) Saiyan Prince Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 212 Rep Power: 4	Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato I think Master Mutiato is stronger than Master Roshi, since he was able to correctly aim the Mufuba and trap King Piccolo. Well that's the only evidence I have to go on. There is also that quote about Baba saying that Roshi drunk from the well of immortality. But what else do we have to go on?

09-13-2005	#2 (permalink)
.MacGyver (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,217 Rep Power: 5	Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato I know that the Bird of immortality made Kame Sennin immortal, but only from age since Piccolo Damaioah could and did kill him. Well, Kame Sennin has to be stronger. All pupils surpasses their masters at some point. Kame Sennin also knows more than Mutaito does after seeing the new generation of fighters fight. Besides, Kame Sennin has been at Korin's place too. He's also the inventor of the Kamehameha. Doing the Mafuba doesn't mean you've got to be very strong, you only have to be able to trap the foe and to hit the container with him. I doubt Mutaito is stronger than Tien was when he trained the Mafuba. Tien would likely survive making the Mafuba, while Mutaito died from it. Since Tenshinhan was stronger than Kame Sennin which died, I don't think he would die from it. Kame Sennin only lacked the skills of hitting the container, not the strenght, and died. He must've been at least as strong as Mutaito. I think he is stronger because of the reasons listed above. Going after the anime, Mutaito is stronger than both Goku and Kame Sennin. While Goku trained at Kami's place he travelled back in time facing Mutaito and lost to him. Since Goku lost to Mutaito it makes Kame Sennin is weaker than Mutaito. I think that isn't possible because of the reasons listed above.

09-13-2005	#3 (permalink)
DK64_MASTER (12) Saiyan Prince Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 212 Rep Power: 4	Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato Both Master Roshi and Master Mutiatio died doing the Mafuba though. I do agree that most (if not all) pupils surpass their masters, though. I understand why You'd think Mutaito is weaker. I'm not leaning any way though. You do have valid points, although, it was hard to understand some of they (sorry). Couldn't have Master Mutaito also be at Korin's place (was it ever stated that Korin was very old?). I never saw the part when Goku met Mutiato. Well I haven't seen all the anime. I remember him fighting his grandpa, though.

09-13-2005	#4 (permalink)
.Teen Goten (19) Mastered Super Saiyan Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 999 Rep Power: 4	Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato I think Master Mutiato is stronger than Muten-Roshi. He was able to seal Daimao Piccolo unlike his pupil, Roshi

09-15-2005	#5 (permalink)
.MacGyver (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,217 Rep Power: 5	Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato QUOTE(Teen Goten @ Sep 12 2005, 10:50 PM) I think Master Mutiato is stronger than Muten-Roshi. He was able to seal Daimao Piccolo unlike his pupil, Roshi [snapback]458829[/snapback] Mafuba isn't much about strenght, I think. I doubt that Master Roshi ever trained the Mafuba technique that much before using it because of the simple fact that he missed to hit the container. I think it's more about training to control the Ki. I don't remember Tenshinhan getting stronger by mastering the Mafuba technique, all he had to do was to learn how to control the energy. Well, Mutaito might have been at Korin's place. 1. Mutaito wasn't introduced before the Damaioah Saga and isn't mentioned because of that and 2. Korin read Goku's thoughts and saw that Goku didn't know who Mutaito was and didn't mention him because of that. Sorry if you didn't understand, that wasn't my intention .

09-16-2005	#6 (permalink)
.D#1Pimp (13) Great Ape Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 258 Rep Power: 4	Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato MUTAITO HASNT SEEN MASTER ROSHIS 100% KAMEHAMEHA.THE ONEWHEN HE GETS BIG AND I DONT THINK HE COULD TAKE IT.

09-16-2005	#7 (permalink)
.MacGyver (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,217 Rep Power: 5	Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato QUOTE(SHJ10 TIENCHA @ Sep 15 2005, 11:35 PM) MUTAITO HASNT SEEN MASTER ROSHIS 100% KAMEHAMEHA.THE ONEWHEN HE GETS BIG AND I DONT THINK HE COULD TAKE IT. [snapback]460438[/snapback] Don't write with caps- lock. It isn't allowed. Yes, the Kamehameha give Master Roshi an advantage.

09-17-2005	#8 (permalink)
DK64_MASTER (12) Saiyan Prince Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 212 Rep Power: 4	Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato QUOTE(MacGyver @ Sep 16 2005, 09:11 AM) QUOTE(SHJ10 TIENCHA @ Sep 15 2005, 11:35 PM) MUTAITO HASNT SEEN MASTER ROSHIS 100% KAMEHAMEHA.THE ONEWHEN HE GETS BIG AND I DONT THINK HE COULD TAKE IT. [snapback]460438[/snapback] Don't write with caps- lock. It isn't allowed. Yes, the Kamehameha give Master Roshi an advantage. [snapback]460749[/snapback] Who says Mutiato didn't know the Kamehameha? It was thought that only the invincible old man could do it, right? But Roshi is QUITE old, so I mean, I'm sure Mutiato had some energy tricks, since he was able to do Mufuba. Roshi had to learn it from somewhere? Or did he pull it out of his ass?

09-17-2005	#9 (permalink)
.MacGyver (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,217 Rep Power: 5	Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato QUOTE(DK64_MASTER @ Sep 16 2005, 07:22 PM) QUOTE(MacGyver @ Sep 16 2005, 09:11 AM) QUOTE(SHJ10 TIENCHA @ Sep 15 2005, 11:35 PM) MUTAITO HASNT SEEN MASTER ROSHIS 100% KAMEHAMEHA.THE ONEWHEN HE GETS BIG AND I DONT THINK HE COULD TAKE IT. [snapback]460438[/snapback] Don't write with caps- lock. It isn't allowed. Yes, the Kamehameha give Master Roshi an advantage. [snapback]460749[/snapback] Who says Mutiato didn't know the Kamehameha? It was thought that only the invincible old man could do it, right? But Roshi is QUITE old, so I mean, I'm sure Mutiato had some energy tricks, since he was able to do Mufuba. Roshi had to learn it from somewhere? Or did he pull it out of his ass? [snapback]460928[/snapback] I think he learned it and gave it the name Kamehameha. Kame in the attacks name stands for turtle in japanese, and since he is the turtle hermit, I would suppose he came up with that technique. Son- Gohan (Goku's grandpa) was a student of Master Roshi (Kame Sennin on japanese which means Turtle master or something like that) as well as the Ox- king. Goku's grandpa must've learned it from Master Roshi. Goku learned it right away, as well as Yamcha, Krillin and Tenshinhan later on. Jackie Chun is Master Roshi. All of these can perform the techniqie. Yes, Mutaito must've got energy tricks since he used the Mafuba, but I don't think his were that strong. Master Roshi has lived for 300 years while Mutaito maybe 80 years or something, which means Matser Roshi have had time to train a lot more than Mutaito has, and has seen a lot more in fighting than his master has. According to the anime though, Mutaito would beat Master Roshi easily. EDIT: Then from where did Mutaito learn it from? Dead end.

09-17-2005	#10 (permalink)
DK64_MASTER (12) Saiyan Prince Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 212 Rep Power: 4	Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato OH yeah, KAME means turtle. Duh, I even thought of that 2 posts back (in my mind) I don't know why I forgot that... QUOTE EDIT: Then from where did Mutaito learn it from? Dead end. Maybe he was a mortal enemy of King Piccolo? Why did he confront him in the first place? Which means he must be stronger or equal than King Piccolo (not because he defeated him, but because he fought with him through the ages). But that's pure speculation. Actually this has turned out to be a rather deep topic. Deeper than I expected. I find it very interesting.

09-17-2005	#11 (permalink)
.MacGyver (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,217 Rep Power: 5	Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato I think Mutaito might've seen others that are stronger/weaker than him fight Piccolo, which made him understand that maybe he didn't have another choice but to use Mafuba. I don't think he fought him, both Mutaito and Master Roshi are weaker than Piccolo and had to use the Mafuba. Goku's grandpa Gohan was once beaten by Goku, but when Goku fights Gohan we find they're quite equal. Before that Master Roshi says that Goku must've surpassed him. Since Goku, Krillin and Yamcha surpassed their master too (grandfather Gohan was Kame Sennins pupil too), as well as Chaou-zu and Tenshinhan surpassed their master Tsufuru- sennin. Piccolo Jr. surpassed his "master" Piccolo Damaioah as well. This makes us come to the conclusion that all pupils eventually surpass their master in strenght and skill. Roshi has seen much more new techniques than Mutaito did. Not only does the master learn out all his knowledge of martial arts that he has collected and discovered during his lifetime, he does also train them more effectively. By seeing many types of training he can make the training methods even better. That makes the pupils stronger much faster than the master got strong, which means that they surpass him. Not only do the pupils after the training possess their masters knowledge, they do collect even more and make their masters techniques even better. That's why I think Master Roshi is stronger than Mutaito.

09-18-2005	#12 (permalink)
Explosion.of.Anger (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 781 Rep Power: 4	Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato What does master Mutaito do? Like in time,,,i dont get it.

09-18-2005	#13 (permalink)
DK64_MASTER (12) Saiyan Prince Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 212 Rep Power: 4	Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato QUOTE(.Vegeto. @ Sep 17 2005, 06:53 PM) What does master Mutaito do? Like in time,,,i dont get it. [snapback]462170[/snapback] I'm not sure what your question is, but he was Master Roshi's Teacher. Did that answer your question?

09-18-2005	#14 (permalink)
Explosion.of.Anger (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 781 Rep Power: 4	Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato Like what is the Mafuba, and if so how did King Piccollo escape and appear in Dragonball?

09-18-2005	#15 (permalink)
USSj Goku (18) Artificial Human Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 831 Rep Power: 5	Is Master Roshi stronger than Master Mutiato The Mufuba wave is something that you can do to trap your opponent into some kind of jar, you should watch the King Piccolo/Piccolo Jr. saga's. King Piccolo managed to escape because Pilaf found the jar he was trapped in from the Mufuba wave that Mutatio used on him and released him.