Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger?

Goku2212 · 12-02-2006

I have a question regarding Gohan:
Why does Gohan/can Gohan go SSJ after he has had his potential unlocked?
I think in the anime, Gohan mentions something about it being too powerful or whatever, but i dont recall....
Basically, would Gohan/can Gohan become any stronger if he transforms/could transform into a SSJ after he has his potetial unlocked?

Shadow Hawk · 12-02-2006

First off, you're post is hard to follow.
And now, Gohan did have his potential unlocked before he became a SSJ. SSJ is a multiplier, it increases a saiyans base powers. So Gohan getting his potential unlocked made him stronger when he became a SSJ.
Hope that helps somewhat.

**LegendarySSJ7** · 12-02-2006

They keyword here to accentuate on many a post is latent potential. Rou Kaioshin uncorked and tapped into the sheer volume of power and reserves that resides Gohan's latent potential and aptitude, so he was putting out as much power as possible. This is also why the auto-evolving mechanism increase was ineffectual, in my recollection, in bout with Shin Boo (Gotenks Prime) - the "former ineptitude" line holds water here nonwithstanding.

Basically, with the ritual in question, having accessed and brought out Gohan's latent power and potential, that the auto-evolution wasn't triggered (and if at all a VERY marginal and not so intensely interesting augmentation and still no place near far into the area at which he could equal Shin Boo [Gotenks prime] off). Basically, the amount of 'output' and 'power' was as much as he could put out after said ritual.

**JAIF** · 12-02-2006

Hmm Rou Dai Kaio-shin's power-up ritual was supposed to tap into the entire hidden power that Gohan had-since birth, mind you. Every training he did, every increase he received to his power, including transforming into a Super Saiya-jinn, in fact unlocked a portion of that latent power of his. But with the ritual, the entirety of Gohan's hidden power was tapped into, and besides, Kaio-shin even augmented that power, making Gohan even stronger. But that doesn't mean Gohan reached the "roof" of his power when achieving the "mystic form"-if there is even such a thing as a "roof" to a Saiyan's/half-Saiyan's power. Gohan, by training, could get stronger. Picture Gohan being born wielding the power of his mystic form. Then, if he grew up and trained, he'd grow stronger, he'd become Super Saiyan again etc. It's the same thing, only Gohan is older. The Zenkai Gohan didn't receive probably had nothing to do with this-we have seen Zenkais being effective on Gohan and he probably received so many of them during the training within the Time Chamber that his body grew immune to their effects. Probably, if Gohan's body was still "vulnerable" to a Zenkai effect, he would receive one even immediately after achieving mystic form, if there was a case of near-death condition, because the Zenkai refers to physical upgrade concerning the Saiyan's body.
Now then, we know for certain that Gohan didn't train any further after the Buu fight, so there is no case of a "natural" progression such as the one the Z fighters (and everyone) underwent to let him achieve the Super Saiyan forms again. So why does Gohan change into a Super Saiyan again in Dragonball GT?
Option 1): A plothole of TOEI
Option 2): Gohan's lack of training made the power level of his base "mystic" form drop, so he had to go Super Saiyan to revert his power to its full capacity. In short, his power was "re-tapped"
Obviously, I would go with the first option. Not that I don't believe Gohan's power dropped to the lack of training, but to see TOEI placing him, in the beginning of GT, only a tad higher than Son Goten and Vegeta... well, the fact that there are so many plotholes in GT makes me sceptical about seriously considering GT facts when judging things like Gohan's mystic form. Again in short, when referring to cannon characters, I prefer to ignore what happened in GT and the movies.

Shadow Hawk · 12-02-2006

Ah, crap. Wasn't paying attention. I thought you were talking about on Namek.
As said before, it was a plot hole. All of GT was a horrible plothole disaster.

ram9 · 12-03-2006

About dbgt,dargon ball/z daizenshu are covered in these volumes with brief cameos of DBGT (these books were printed before DBGT aired in Japan so that's why it lacks a strong presence in the volumes).
actually,Akira Toriyama had only minor involvement in the dbgt early stages, setting forth the initial premise of the series, as well as creating designs for most of the main characters, including newcomer Giru. Because of his minimal involvement, some parts of GT contradict the previous parts of the series.And there's a series that he drew super saiyajin 4,which means he approved it being canon.
The potential exists, however minute, for a theatrical Dragon Ball movie release during the 20th or 25th anniversary of the beginning of the anime in Japan (in 2006 or 2011), though nothing to that effect has been announced at this time.
so why not considering dbgt if it has many evidence that it should be consider canon

**JAIF** · 12-03-2006

[quote user="ram9"] About dbgt,dargon ball/z daizenshu are covered in these volumes with brief cameos of DBGT (these books were printed before DBGT aired in Japan so that's why it lacks a strong presence in the volumes).
actually,Akira Toriyama had only minor involvement in the dbgt early stages, setting forth the initial premise of the series, as well as creating designs for most of the main characters, including newcomer Giru. Because of his minimal involvement, some parts of GT contradict the previous parts of the series.And there's a series that he drew super saiyajin 4,which means he approved it being canon.
The potential exists, however minute, for a theatrical Dragon Ball movie release during the 20th or 25th anniversary of the beginning of the anime in Japan (in 2006 or 2011), though nothing to that effect has been announced at this time.[/quote]
All of this, we know. Akira only said that if he were to design Super Saiya-jinn 4 form, it would look something like that, and approved parts of the storyline like late Baby saga. But that's it.
[quote user="ram9"]
so why not considering dbgt if it has many evidence that it should be consider canon
[/quote]
Because it's non-cannon

The Chibi Kiriyama · 12-03-2006

[quote user="Goku2212"] I have a question regarding Gohan:
Why does Gohan/can Gohan go SSJ after he has had his potential unlocked?
I think in the anime, Gohan mentions something about it being too powerful or whatever, but i dont recall....
Basically, would Gohan/can Gohan become any stronger if he transforms/could transform into a SSJ after he has his potetial unlocked?
[/quote]
I think you're missing something- Gohan, essentially, is at Super Saiyan when in his 'ultimate' form. The former Kaiô-shin expressly states that to activate the power he would have to do the same unlocking process he did to go Super Saiyan before. So, in short, Ultimate Gohan no longer has the Super Saiyan form in DBZ after the ritual's completion as the 'Ultimate Fighter' form has replaced his Super Saiyan state. He is perpetually in the form. GT is non-canon and does not factor into this.
And as a general reminder to those who are throwing the term around and for those who will...

ram9 · 12-03-2006

Evidence that dbgt was canon:
1.About dbgt,dragon ball/z daizenshu are covered in volumes with brief cameos of DBGT (these books were printed before DBGT aired in Japan so that's why it lacks a strong presence in the volumes).
2.Actually,Akira Toriyama had only minor involvement in the dbgt early stages, setting forth the initial premise of the series, as well as creating designs for most of the main characters, including newcomer Giru. Because of his minimal involvement, some parts of GT contradict the previous parts of the series.And there's a series of dbgt that he drew super saiyajin 4,which means he approved it being canon.
3.Most importantly,Akira Toriyama had a mild involvement in creating DBGT.And who was Akira Toriyama?Answer that SuperVegetto3.........
4.Just because DBGT doesnt appear in the manga it doesnt mean that is not canon.If it was made by the same creator that made dbz then that only means that he consider it being canon.
it seems the only canon to you is the manga,even if toriyama made another dragonball series on anime but not the manga you will still consider it non canon ha! even though he said so! what a joke!
the only movies/series that toriyama approved to be canon was bardok,mirai truinks story and dbgt.
basically dbgt did not appear in the manga but that doesnt mean its non canon if toriyama was involve in making dbgt and approved it,right SuperVegetto3 ?only speculator like you thinking like that.

**LegendarySSJ7** · 12-03-2006

1.) Allow this to act as a catalyst as a general reminder to drive in the fact that the rebound topic of discussion is Gohan's latent potential uncorked and how it, at core, superceded unlocking 'Super Saiyan'.
2.) No, it does not equate to canon if Toriyama-sensei had minimal involvement (who didn't deem things of the such canon, to begin with, or at least such was never heard). Drawing up certain characters in question (who weren't his idea to begin with) does not equal 'canon' off on any sense of the term.
3.) I think we all know who Toriyama-sensei is. Also, just to add - you may want to reread Chibi Kiriyama's post so it's a bit less missed.

ram9 · 12-03-2006

basically the only canon to LegendarySSj7 was manga only
minimal involvement of akira toriyama in creating dbgt is enough evidence that it was canon and he considered it also,in other words approved it even of his mild involvement.
who is akira toriyama LegendarySSj7 answer that?
and who has a mild involvement in dbgt?
most importantly he approved it.................

Vegeta-the most powerful sayajin · 12-03-2006

Canon- the works of an author that have been accepted as authentic:
A "mild" involment (which was mostly just drawing character designs) does not equate to canon. Also just because he approved it does not make it canon. He approved the movies didn't he? Yet none of them are considered to be canon. In order for it to be authentic Toriyama would have had to have made it himself.(and Toriyama wrote almost none of GT)

**JAIF** · 12-03-2006

[quote user="The Chibi Kiriyama"]
And as a general reminder to those who are throwing the term around and for those who will...

[/quote]
You are right about that. But in my language, from which, mind you, both of these words originally stem, they are spelled the same way, hence the confusion. Please keep in mind that I am not a native English speaker, and show tolerance to the occasional spelling errors like that-though, if one were to check through my posts, I'd take a guess that he'd find my spelling actually decent enough, considering some examples that I have witnessed here...
[quote user="ram9"]
Evidence that dbgt was canon:
1.About dbgt,dragon ball/z daizenshu are covered in volumes with brief cameos of DBGT (these books were printed before DBGT aired in Japan so that's why it lacks a strong presence in the volumes).
2.Actually,Akira Toriyama had only minor involvement in the dbgt early stages, setting forth the initial premise of the series, as well as creating designs for most of the main characters, including newcomer Giru. Because of his minimal involvement, some parts of GT contradict the previous parts of the series.And there's a series of dbgt that he drew super saiyajin 4,which means he approved it being canon.
3.Most importantly,Akira Toriyama had a mild involvement in creating DBGT.And who was Akira Toriyama?Answer that SuperVegetto3.........
4.Just because DBGT doesnt appear in the manga it doesnt mean that is not canon.If it was made by the same creator that made dbz then that only means that he consider it being canon.
it seems the only canon to you is the manga,even if toriyama made another dragonball series on anime but not the manga you will still consider it non canon ha! even though he said so! what a joke!
the only movies/series that toriyama approved to be canon was bardok,mirai truinks story and dbgt.
basically dbgt did not appear in the manga but that doesnt mean its non canon if toriyama was involve in making dbgt and approved it,right SuperVegetto3 ?only speculator like you thinking like that.
[/quote]
1), 2). Even if Akira Toriyama gave his blessing to the GT series, even if the Pope himself blessed them, they would still be non-canon...
3) Allow me to skip this question, as I consider the statement ridiculous and the answer obvious...
4) GT meets the definition of non-canon word-by-word. The term non-canon was created to describe series like GT...
Until now, yes, the only thing that can be considered as purely canon is the manga version of the Dragonball and Dragonball Z series. If Akira Toriyama were to create another series (something which he has stated he'd rather refrain from on many an occasion, even before Dragonball Z was finished) then we'd reconsider. But he hasn't. And Dragonball GT is TOEI Animations' work, not Akira Toriyama's. Additionally, Toriyama didn't approve the said series/films as being "canon", he basically just stated he "likes" them, if it can be termed as such, and saw them fitting with the original storyline he created. And... Toriyama being "involved" in GT... He just created some character designs and stated that, were he to continue the series, they would probably have progressed like GT-something which might as well be a marketing trick on TOEI Animation's part.
Your last statement lacks a bit of sense...

**SS2 Vegeto** · 12-05-2006

The manga is the canon for every series in which it came first. The anime is the canon for any series in which it came first.

ONLY the things that the author themselves ACTUALLY WRITES are canon. Approving a series doesn't make it cannon. Drawing a picture doesn't make it cannon. Adding ideas doesn't make it canon. For something to be considered canon, it must be the direct work of it's creator.

Thus, yes. The manga, and only the manga is canon.

This is not speculation. It is fact, regardless of what anyone else believes or wants to believe.

OberstGeiger · 12-06-2006

I don't think manga is the only thing canon. Take a look at Star Wars books; not written by George Lucas but they are accepted as canon regardless. I mean, do not get me wrong, I'm not saying GT is canon. The thing is, the movies are definately not canon under the definiton of canon in reference to fiction. But I can say that GT is a non-canon spin off; thats about it because it slightly tries to tie in with the GT universe.
In the context of fiction, the canon of a fictional universe
comprises those novels, stories, films, etc. that are considered to be
genuine, and those events, characters, settings, etc. that are
considered to have inarguable existence within the fictional universe.
In order for the fictional universe to appear cohesive, especially in
fictions that contain multiple parts, both creators and audiences
sometimes find it useful to define what has and has not "actually
happened" in that universe. Usually items that are considered canon
come from the original source of the fictional universe while non-canonspin-offs or unofficial items, often in different media. material comes from adaptations,
I also want to point out that canon originated from Sherlock Holmes books to make a catergory to place the original works and adaptations in another catergory. Also, I've never seen GT but I already know that its quality is that of a lacking nature.
I'd say, on the topic of Gohan becoming stronger, there is nothing canon (keeping off topic) that Gohan would do to become stronger than what he was last seen in Z as. Undoubtly there would be other ways of getting him stronger, just not through Super Saiyajin.
EDIT: Quote comes from Wikipedia though; not sure on its reliability.

12-02-2006	#1 (permalink)
Goku2212 (5) Crane School Disciple Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 35 Rep Power: 0	Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger? I have a question regarding Gohan: Why does Gohan/can Gohan go SSJ after he has had his potential unlocked? I think in the anime, Gohan mentions something about it being too powerful or whatever, but i dont recall.... Basically, would Gohan/can Gohan become any stronger if he transforms/could transform into a SSJ after he has his potetial unlocked? __________________

12-02-2006	#2 (permalink)
Shadow Hawk (12) Saiyan Prince Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Southside of Chicago Posts: 234 Rep Power: 3	Re: Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger? First off, you're post is hard to follow. And now, Gohan did have his potential unlocked before he became a SSJ. SSJ is a multiplier, it increases a saiyans base powers. So Gohan getting his potential unlocked made him stronger when he became a SSJ. Hope that helps somewhat. __________________ Much love to Vivi for the sig

12-02-2006	#3 (permalink)
LegendarySSJ7 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: LA, CA, USA. Posts: 2,736 Rep Power: 48	Re: Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger? They keyword here to accentuate on many a post is latent potential. Rou Kaioshin uncorked and tapped into the sheer volume of power and reserves that resides Gohan's latent potential and aptitude, so he was putting out as much power as possible. This is also why the auto-evolving mechanism increase was ineffectual, in my recollection, in bout with Shin Boo (Gotenks Prime) - the "former ineptitude" line holds water here nonwithstanding. Basically, with the ritual in question, having accessed and brought out Gohan's latent power and potential, that the auto-evolution wasn't triggered (and if at all a VERY marginal and not so intensely interesting augmentation and still no place near far into the area at which he could equal Shin Boo [Gotenks prime] off). Basically, the amount of 'output' and 'power' was as much as he could put out after said ritual. __________________

12-02-2006	#4 (permalink)
JAIF Moderator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Piercing the Heavens and stuff. Posts: 5,843 Rep Power: 60	Re: Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger? Hmm Rou Dai Kaio-shin's power-up ritual was supposed to tap into the entire hidden power that Gohan had-since birth, mind you. Every training he did, every increase he received to his power, including transforming into a Super Saiya-jinn, in fact unlocked a portion of that latent power of his. But with the ritual, the entirety of Gohan's hidden power was tapped into, and besides, Kaio-shin even augmented that power, making Gohan even stronger. But that doesn't mean Gohan reached the "roof" of his power when achieving the "mystic form"-if there is even such a thing as a "roof" to a Saiyan's/half-Saiyan's power. Gohan, by training, could get stronger. Picture Gohan being born wielding the power of his mystic form. Then, if he grew up and trained, he'd grow stronger, he'd become Super Saiyan again etc. It's the same thing, only Gohan is older. The Zenkai Gohan didn't receive probably had nothing to do with this-we have seen Zenkais being effective on Gohan and he probably received so many of them during the training within the Time Chamber that his body grew immune to their effects. Probably, if Gohan's body was still "vulnerable" to a Zenkai effect, he would receive one even immediately after achieving mystic form, if there was a case of near-death condition, because the Zenkai refers to physical upgrade concerning the Saiyan's body. Now then, we know for certain that Gohan didn't train any further after the Buu fight, so there is no case of a "natural" progression such as the one the Z fighters (and everyone) underwent to let him achieve the Super Saiyan forms again. So why does Gohan change into a Super Saiyan again in Dragonball GT? Option 1): A plothole of TOEI Option 2): Gohan's lack of training made the power level of his base "mystic" form drop, so he had to go Super Saiyan to revert his power to its full capacity. In short, his power was "re-tapped" Obviously, I would go with the first option. Not that I don't believe Gohan's power dropped to the lack of training, but to see TOEI placing him, in the beginning of GT, only a tad higher than Son Goten and Vegeta... well, the fact that there are so many plotholes in GT makes me sceptical about seriously considering GT facts when judging things like Gohan's mystic form. Again in short, when referring to cannon characters, I prefer to ignore what happened in GT and the movies. __________________ Empty until further notice.

12-02-2006	#5 (permalink)
Shadow Hawk (12) Saiyan Prince Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Southside of Chicago Posts: 234 Rep Power: 3	Re: Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger? Ah, crap. Wasn't paying attention. I thought you were talking about on Namek. As said before, it was a plot hole. All of GT was a horrible plothole disaster. __________________ Much love to Vivi for the sig

12-03-2006	#6 (permalink)
ram9 (8) Saiyan Warrior Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 78 Rep Power: 3	Re: Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger? About dbgt,dargon ball/z daizenshu are covered in these volumes with brief cameos of DBGT (these books were printed before DBGT aired in Japan so that's why it lacks a strong presence in the volumes). actually,Akira Toriyama had only minor involvement in the dbgt early stages, setting forth the initial premise of the series, as well as creating designs for most of the main characters, including newcomer Giru. Because of his minimal involvement, some parts of GT contradict the previous parts of the series.And there's a series that he drew super saiyajin 4,which means he approved it being canon. The potential exists, however minute, for a theatrical Dragon Ball movie release during the 20th or 25th anniversary of the beginning of the anime in Japan (in 2006 or 2011), though nothing to that effect has been announced at this time. so why not considering dbgt if it has many evidence that it should be consider canon

12-03-2006	#7 (permalink)
JAIF Moderator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Piercing the Heavens and stuff. Posts: 5,843 Rep Power: 60	Re: Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger? [quote user="ram9"] About dbgt,dargon ball/z daizenshu are covered in these volumes with brief cameos of DBGT (these books were printed before DBGT aired in Japan so that's why it lacks a strong presence in the volumes). actually,Akira Toriyama had only minor involvement in the dbgt early stages, setting forth the initial premise of the series, as well as creating designs for most of the main characters, including newcomer Giru. Because of his minimal involvement, some parts of GT contradict the previous parts of the series.And there's a series that he drew super saiyajin 4,which means he approved it being canon. The potential exists, however minute, for a theatrical Dragon Ball movie release during the 20th or 25th anniversary of the beginning of the anime in Japan (in 2006 or 2011), though nothing to that effect has been announced at this time.[/quote] All of this, we know. Akira only said that if he were to design Super Saiya-jinn 4 form, it would look something like that, and approved parts of the storyline like late Baby saga. But that's it. [quote user="ram9"] so why not considering dbgt if it has many evidence that it should be consider canon [/quote] Because it's non-cannon __________________ Empty until further notice.

12-03-2006	#8 (permalink)
The Chibi Kiriyama (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Henderson, Nevada Posts: 1,299 Rep Power: 6	Re: Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger? [quote user="Goku2212"] I have a question regarding Gohan: Why does Gohan/can Gohan go SSJ after he has had his potential unlocked? I think in the anime, Gohan mentions something about it being too powerful or whatever, but i dont recall.... Basically, would Gohan/can Gohan become any stronger if he transforms/could transform into a SSJ after he has his potetial unlocked? [/quote] I think you're missing something- Gohan, essentially, is at Super Saiyan when in his 'ultimate' form. The former Kaiô-shin expressly states that to activate the power he would have to do the same unlocking process he did to go Super Saiyan before. So, in short, Ultimate Gohan no longer has the Super Saiyan form in DBZ after the ritual's completion as the 'Ultimate Fighter' form has replaced his Super Saiyan state. He is perpetually in the form. GT is non-canon and does not factor into this. And as a general reminder to those who are throwing the term around and for those who will...

12-03-2006	#9 (permalink)
ram9 (8) Saiyan Warrior Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 78 Rep Power: 3	Re: Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger? Evidence that dbgt was canon: 1.About dbgt,dragon ball/z daizenshu are covered in volumes with brief cameos of DBGT (these books were printed before DBGT aired in Japan so that's why it lacks a strong presence in the volumes). 2.Actually,Akira Toriyama had only minor involvement in the dbgt early stages, setting forth the initial premise of the series, as well as creating designs for most of the main characters, including newcomer Giru. Because of his minimal involvement, some parts of GT contradict the previous parts of the series.And there's a series of dbgt that he drew super saiyajin 4,which means he approved it being canon. 3.Most importantly,Akira Toriyama had a mild involvement in creating DBGT.And who was Akira Toriyama?Answer that SuperVegetto3......... 4.Just because DBGT doesnt appear in the manga it doesnt mean that is not canon.If it was made by the same creator that made dbz then that only means that he consider it being canon. it seems the only canon to you is the manga,even if toriyama made another dragonball series on anime but not the manga you will still consider it non canon ha! even though he said so! what a joke! the only movies/series that toriyama approved to be canon was bardok,mirai truinks story and dbgt. basically dbgt did not appear in the manga but that doesnt mean its non canon if toriyama was involve in making dbgt and approved it,right SuperVegetto3 ?only speculator like you thinking like that.

12-03-2006	#10 (permalink)
LegendarySSJ7 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: LA, CA, USA. Posts: 2,736 Rep Power: 48	Re: Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger? 1.) Allow this to act as a catalyst as a general reminder to drive in the fact that the rebound topic of discussion is Gohan's latent potential uncorked and how it, at core, superceded unlocking 'Super Saiyan'. 2.) No, it does not equate to canon if Toriyama-sensei had minimal involvement (who didn't deem things of the such canon, to begin with, or at least such was never heard). Drawing up certain characters in question (who weren't his idea to begin with) does not equal 'canon' off on any sense of the term. 3.) I think we all know who Toriyama-sensei is. Also, just to add - you may want to reread Chibi Kiriyama's post so it's a bit less missed. __________________

12-03-2006	#11 (permalink)
ram9 (8) Saiyan Warrior Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 78 Rep Power: 3	Re: Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger? basically the only canon to LegendarySSj7 was manga only minimal involvement of akira toriyama in creating dbgt is enough evidence that it was canon and he considered it also,in other words approved it even of his mild involvement. who is akira toriyama LegendarySSj7 answer that? and who has a mild involvement in dbgt? most importantly he approved it.................

12-03-2006	#12 (permalink)
Vegeta-the most powerful sayajin (15) Super Namekian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sitting in a secluded room Posts: 421 Rep Power: 4	Re: Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger? Canon- the works of an author that have been accepted as authentic: A "mild" involment (which was mostly just drawing character designs) does not equate to canon. Also just because he approved it does not make it canon. He approved the movies didn't he? Yet none of them are considered to be canon. In order for it to be authentic Toriyama would have had to have made it himself.(and Toriyama wrote almost none of GT) __________________ Current Manga Being Read: Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, YuYu Hakusho ---- Incase you're wondering this is V-TMPS

12-03-2006	#13 (permalink)
JAIF Moderator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Piercing the Heavens and stuff. Posts: 5,843 Rep Power: 60	Re: Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger? [quote user="The Chibi Kiriyama"] And as a general reminder to those who are throwing the term around and for those who will... [/quote] You are right about that. But in my language, from which, mind you, both of these words originally stem, they are spelled the same way, hence the confusion. Please keep in mind that I am not a native English speaker, and show tolerance to the occasional spelling errors like that-though, if one were to check through my posts, I'd take a guess that he'd find my spelling actually decent enough, considering some examples that I have witnessed here... [quote user="ram9"] Evidence that dbgt was canon: 1.About dbgt,dragon ball/z daizenshu are covered in volumes with brief cameos of DBGT (these books were printed before DBGT aired in Japan so that's why it lacks a strong presence in the volumes). 2.Actually,Akira Toriyama had only minor involvement in the dbgt early stages, setting forth the initial premise of the series, as well as creating designs for most of the main characters, including newcomer Giru. Because of his minimal involvement, some parts of GT contradict the previous parts of the series.And there's a series of dbgt that he drew super saiyajin 4,which means he approved it being canon. 3.Most importantly,Akira Toriyama had a mild involvement in creating DBGT.And who was Akira Toriyama?Answer that SuperVegetto3......... 4.Just because DBGT doesnt appear in the manga it doesnt mean that is not canon.If it was made by the same creator that made dbz then that only means that he consider it being canon. it seems the only canon to you is the manga,even if toriyama made another dragonball series on anime but not the manga you will still consider it non canon ha! even though he said so! what a joke! the only movies/series that toriyama approved to be canon was bardok,mirai truinks story and dbgt. basically dbgt did not appear in the manga but that doesnt mean its non canon if toriyama was involve in making dbgt and approved it,right SuperVegetto3 ?only speculator like you thinking like that. [/quote] 1), 2). Even if Akira Toriyama gave his blessing to the GT series, even if the Pope himself blessed them, they would still be non-canon... 3) Allow me to skip this question, as I consider the statement ridiculous and the answer obvious... 4) GT meets the definition of non-canon word-by-word. The term non-canon was created to describe series like GT... Until now, yes, the only thing that can be considered as purely canon is the manga version of the Dragonball and Dragonball Z series. If Akira Toriyama were to create another series (something which he has stated he'd rather refrain from on many an occasion, even before Dragonball Z was finished) then we'd reconsider. But he hasn't. And Dragonball GT is TOEI Animations' work, not Akira Toriyama's. Additionally, Toriyama didn't approve the said series/films as being "canon", he basically just stated he "likes" them, if it can be termed as such, and saw them fitting with the original storyline he created. And... Toriyama being "involved" in GT... He just created some character designs and stated that, were he to continue the series, they would probably have progressed like GT-something which might as well be a marketing trick on TOEI Animation's part. Your last statement lacks a bit of sense... __________________ Empty until further notice.

12-05-2006	#14 (permalink)
SS2 Vegeto Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In God's Hands Posts: 9,396 Rep Power: 37	Re: Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger? The manga is the canon for every series in which it came first. The anime is the canon for any series in which it came first. ONLY the things that the author themselves ACTUALLY WRITES are canon. Approving a series doesn't make it cannon. Drawing a picture doesn't make it cannon. Adding ideas doesn't make it canon. For something to be considered canon, it must be the direct work of it's creator. Thus, yes. The manga, and only the manga is canon. This is not speculation. It is fact, regardless of what anyone else believes or wants to believe. __________________

12-06-2006	#15 (permalink)
OberstGeiger (19) Mastered Super Saiyan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: British Columbia, Canada Posts: 1,169 Blog Entries: 5 Rep Power: 81	Re: Gohan Strength? Can it get stronger? I don't think manga is the only thing canon. Take a look at Star Wars books; not written by George Lucas but they are accepted as canon regardless. I mean, do not get me wrong, I'm not saying GT is canon. The thing is, the movies are definately not canon under the definiton of canon in reference to fiction. But I can say that GT is a non-canon spin off; thats about it because it slightly tries to tie in with the GT universe. In the context of fiction, the canon of a fictional universe comprises those novels, stories, films, etc. that are considered to be genuine, and those events, characters, settings, etc. that are considered to have inarguable existence within the fictional universe. In order for the fictional universe to appear cohesive, especially in fictions that contain multiple parts, both creators and audiences sometimes find it useful to define what has and has not "actually happened" in that universe. Usually items that are considered canon come from the original source of the fictional universe while non-canonspin-offs or unofficial items, often in different media. material comes from adaptations, I also want to point out that canon originated from Sherlock Holmes books to make a catergory to place the original works and adaptations in another catergory. Also, I've never seen GT but I already know that its quality is that of a lacking nature. I'd say, on the topic of Gohan becoming stronger, there is nothing canon (keeping off topic) that Gohan would do to become stronger than what he was last seen in Z as. Undoubtly there would be other ways of getting him stronger, just not through Super Saiyajin. EDIT: Quote comes from Wikipedia though; not sure on its reliability. __________________ Fan fusions will FUCK your Shit UP!