LegendarySSJ7

[quote user="demonkingpiccolo"]This is RIGHT after Vegeta becomes a Super Saiyan against 19: Check it out-[/quote]

True, it's a more intense rendition of said Super Saiyan aura, but scrutinize closer - it's still waves of flame in full and really not forks of flame. The Vegeta that was immensely strong for the time was still weak by comparison to #18... who, not to be derisive, was apparently a very, very, very long stride away from the 'Complete' Cell that wielded and displayed Mastered Super Saiyan auras, and Complete Cell's full capacity (or full power, if you prefer) aura input of his own realm so intense that not even the Boo Saga Arc Super Saiyans surpass it by a length, let alone surpass it and let alone the fact that they're a stride away (one of the highlights of the series in [the original] Manga form obviously is you can tell which aura is which).

__________________

The Chibi Kiriyama

[quote user="demonkingpiccolo"]This is RIGHT after Vegeta becomes a Super Saiyan against 19[/quote]
You missed the part right afterwards, where it equalizes out to reach a Goku-like standard. The next time we see his aura flare up to new levels is when he's doing a chi-based attack. This can be said of all levels, as we see Super Vegeta at near SSS levels of output when using the Final Flash. We also see them at a much more 'intense version' the moment of transformation and slightly afterwards, both to give visual appeal and gravity. If this were the case with Trunks and there was indeed an error when he fought the Androids, Toriyama would have corrected it as things progressed. But he didn't- in fact, he has no qualm animating the exact same mastered aura around him when he fights Cell.

ixidor

My personal opinion is that trunks' level is something between ssj and mssj. Why? Simple, after goku and gohan came after the rosat, he and trunks noticed what they did, in fact i think that by this time both vegeta and trunks stopped with his ussj training and started their fssj training. However, by lack of control, less time and a tired body after 1 ROSAT a couple of days before, they couldn't master the ssj form as goku and gohan after the second ROSAT. However, i think his training was not worthless, i think their power as a middle stage between ssj and fssj rised a lot their power, in fact i think they stopped with his ussj at all since they had already surpass such stage with this middle stage. So, with this, both of them didn't have (and they probably couldn't) to use ussj against the cell jrs (see vegeta atacking cell after he killed trunks, he was very pissed of yet he was definitely not a ussj, his muscles from base to ssj had no increase at all).
So, basicly, this trunks is just the trunks that fought the cell jrs, the only difference is his haircut and the fact that now he had a different aura around him. Also, don't forget that Toryama don't have to make everything exactly the same in every draw and if you see, goku had a ssj aura around him when he was fighting cell. This don't make him a ssj instead of a mssj, so, don't give too much importance to auras. They change a lot.

Gozar

__________________


"You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that
your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all
of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think
my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had
no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

Tyro

A zenkai from death...? Even if that "explains" how he obtained the power necessary to master the SSj state, how would you explain the zenkai?

LegendarySSJ7

__________________

Gozar

__________________


"You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that
your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all
of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think
my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had
no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

LegendarySSJ7

[quote user="Gozar"]Well.......it's it's the body that goes through the healing process. So when revived, your body does infact heal. A heal is a heal as far as I am concerned.[/quote]

*Legendary's eyes blank (and filled) with confusion*

....That's not the point we're trying to make, though pellucidly, you could contest the such on refuse. Perhaps what Cell would term it as would be a help; to be clear:

(Volume 35 / [Z Era] 19, Page 78): "It must have been my Saiyan Cells–a boost in power after a brush with death."

Hence 'after a brush with death.' Hinting to a near-death experience. Trunks fell in place with an experience of death, not a near-death experience. Different grounds for logic in this subject of circumstance. Hence that there's no auto-evolution triggered here, so no increase, and no immensely strong Trunks and his capacity by comparison.

Anyway, as I've said on many a post, however odd and quaint it may seem, I would say Trunks was a Mastered Super Saiyan.

__________________

Gozar

You wouldn't call dying & coming back a brush with death? The way I see it, the Saiyan Cells don't know the difference....when you body gets healed that is what initiates the Zenkai. So regardless of if you die or not, if your body is living & healed, you should gain the Zenkai. I mean Cell's quote can be interpritted different ways....the way I see it, a near death experience can be anything that almost or doe kill you but you come back. I mean hell, if an elderly persons heart stops in a hospital, they may be considered dead...but sometimes they are brought back. It's happened where people have infact DIED but have been revived. That is also considered a near-death experience. So, IMO it doesn't matter by whatmeans you are revived, as long as you are.
Anyway....look, as I'm sure you know, I love Trunks. I try to give him every concievable advantage I can, but this is just simply impossible for him to not be FPSSJ at the Cell Games & be an FPSSJ 1 day later.
Plus, like I said....FPSSJ's Aura & ASSJ's Aura are the same thing.....so it's NOT about form but rather pure power.

__________________


"You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that
your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all
of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think
my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had
no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

LegendarySSJ7

[quote user="Gozar"]You wouldn't call dying & coming back a brush with death? The way I see it, the Saiyan Cells don't know the difference....when you body gets healed that is what initiates the Zenkai. So regardless of if you die or not, if your body is living & healed, you should gain the Zenkai. I mean Cell's quote can be interpritted different ways....the way I see it, a near death experience can be anything that almost or doe kill you but you come back. I mean hell, if an elderly persons heart stops in a hospital, they may be considered dead...but sometimes they are brought back. It's happened where people have infact DIED but have been revived. That is also considered a near-death experience. So, IMO it doesn't matter by whatmeans you are revived, as long as you are.[/quote]
Resuscitation (after one has died) and near-death experiences are infinitely different things that shouldn't be used as a template to dodderingly guage at the respective issue by comparison. The crux of said matter is that Trunks was anyplace below a near-death experience in question. I wouldn't abhor Cell's statement on the matter, or dissuade otherwise.
And though the more fierce versions of the auras at issue, by comparison could have been a flub on Toriyama-sensei's part. He's only human (outside of the 'matter of perspective' take on the matter that follows the philosophical joist I tend to prefer), and so are we. But I'm still at the notion that he was a Mastered Super Saiyan, at least against Mirai Cell.

__________________

Gozar

Meaning of Near Death Experience from Dictionary.com:

Quote:

Any experience involving a vision, as of the afterlife, reported by a resuscitated person

Anyway...against Cell...yes I can easily believe that, infact I DO believe he obtained FPSSJ at that point, even before this Aura discussion. It's against the Androids that I do not believe.

__________________


"You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that
your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all
of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think
my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had
no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

LegendarySSJ7

[quote user="Gozar"]Meaning of Near Death Experience from Dictionary.com:

Quote:

Any experience involving a vision, as of the afterlife, reported by a resuscitated person

[/quote]

The other definition we're hinting to:

near-death experience


n : the experience of being close to death but surviving

That + healing = auto-evolution triggered in the Saiyan biology.



And again, it might have been a flub on Toriyama-sensei's part, but it would be just a tad bemusing to no end in every sense of the form if he were to have an intense rendition of the aura around him in question whilst combating the Mirai Cyborgs just as he returned to his own time.

__________________

Gozar

__________________


"You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that
your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all
of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think
my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had
no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

Zer0

__________________

Tyro

I disagree.
Vegeta: "Fool! I've been fighting continuously-- in real battles!! On Earth I nearly died!!!"
Vegeta: "The more we battle...the stronger we Saiyans grow!! And the stronger the opponent...the more power we gain!! I was nearly killed on Earth...But I wasn't, and so I grew stronger than I ever dreamed!!! That is why they call Saiyans the warriors of the universe!!!"
Doctor: "He's suffered a great deal of damage... I'd guess at least another half an hour until he regains consciousness..."
Vegeta: "Pity you underestimated my recuperative powers!!!"
Vegeta: "Didn't you know that we increase our battle strength every time we recover from the brink of death? It was such a bad idea to take care of me when I was narly dead... Don't you agree?!"
Narrator (Akira Toriyama): "Around and around he goes...working his body and ki almost to death and then refreshing himself by eating a senzu... *skip* Wheather he realizes it or not, Goku is living and reliving one of the primal cycles of the Saiyan... Gaining strength by facing and overcoming death!"
Goku: "Vegeta, you fight the other one. I know your strength increased after you came back from near death. You might be able to beat him now."
Vegeta: "Listen!!! You know the Saiyans can grow more powerful when they come back from the brink of death!!! Beat me to within an inch of my life!!! It wont work if I try to kill myself!!! You have to do it!!!
Kuririn: "Saiyans get stronger when they come back from a near-death experiance! He put himself through that on purpose!! So he'd get strong enough to beat Freeza!!"
Ok. Notice how all the quotes involve Saiyans coming to the brink of death through fighting/Hell's training? They're working their bodies to the brink of death.
And about your Vegeta arguement, Goku didn't get stronger after surviving the heart virus.