JAIF

[quote user="deckzone3000"]
#18 got stronger?
What makes you believe Spopovich is nearly 100x stronger than Videl?
I doubt Spopvich was even a 10th of his power before Babadi's magic, so what do you think Pui Pui might have been before Babadi?
Sure there is, there the ones that dont have such a jump in power when Gohan reaches SS2.
[/quote]
Eh Android 18 may have gotten a bit stronger as she trained for the Budokai... As for Spopovitch, there is no way to tell how powerful he was, except by his aura, and the fact that Goku and Vegeta noted his power level was way above his capacity, which is the average human's. Heh, I doubt Babidee's magic makes you 10 times stronger... If it did, Majin Vegeta would equal SSj3 Goku... As Babidee himself said, the powerup depends on the person possessed as well.
"Don't have such a jump in power when Gohan reaches SS2". Gohan's power did jump when he reached SSj2, and by quite the amount. From being barely a match for Perfect Cell (powered-up), Gohan became so strong that, even when injured, he managed to defeat Super Perfect Cell (post-regeneration)

__________________

ixidor

Gohan injured beat cell, that's true, but if vegeta hadn't help him he would lose... See the last chapters from the book, cell was ready to finish the fight when vegeta blasted his face. Gohan used the distraction to kill him, but without it, i seriously doubt he could have kill him, and this is not even hard to understand, if 50% gohan>super perfect cell, then how super perfect cell took half from gohan's power with ONE attack?

SS2 Vegeto

A distraction, plus a highly insignificant support from Goku (if he could even offer his chi, which I doubt...likely little use than for moral support) isn't enough to kill somone far, far stronger than you, especially one who can regenerate. The fact that he had enough chi to end Cell's life at less than 50%, speaks volumes. He may have lost without it...probably would have. However, I wouldn't say Cell was in anyway...infinitely more powerful still, even in comparison to Gohan's SSJ2 form at less than half power.

But, yeah...regardless, the SSJ2 increase for Gohan would indeed have had to have been quite monsterous.

__________________

LegendarySSJ7

[quote user="deckzone3000"]#18 got stronger?[/quote]Well, this made a smile cross my lips, but... a typo, no less. Don't know how I was in yield of that, to my assumption. So, I'd have to say it's been fixed around nonwithstanding.



[quote user="deckzone3000"]What makes you believe Spopovich is nearly 100x stronger than Videl?[/quote]Both Spopovitch and Yamu exhibited a 'dancing flame' aura. The likelihood that they were anyplace below the 1,000 range in that subject of circumstance is rather low, and I doubt Videl could get stupefyingly stronger through flight training alone (as I doubt she was a long stride away and ahead of 50, though still taken with stride when plugging at it).




[quote user="deckzone3000"]I doubt Spopvich was even a 10th of his power before Babadi's magic, so what do you think Pui Pui might have been before Babadi?[/quote]Well, I did ruminate on this, but... I'm of the belief that Vegeta didn't get amazingly stronger though having his latent power brought out and accessed by Bobbodi, just enough to match Goku in strength whilst accessing SSj2. And that Pui Pui's veins weren't pulsating, he wasn't exhibiting a veiny disposition to begin with, and both him and Dabra were dark in nature as well, to begin with. I doubt the boost in question was that prodigious, though it may be making my assumption on reputation.


[quote user="ixidor"]Gohan injured beat cell, that's true, but if vegeta hadn't help him he
would lose... See the last chapters from the book, cell was ready to
finish the fight when vegeta blasted his face. Gohan used the
distraction to kill him, but without it, i seriously doubt he could
have kill him, and this is not even hard to understand, if 50%
gohan>super perfect cell, then how super perfect cell took half from
gohan's power with ONE attack?[/quote]This is the amount of output the injured SSj2 Gohan's Kamehameha wielded, (though he did state he lost half of his chi), not his actual battle strength at half. And hence that when SSj2 'Majin' or Possessed Vegeta combats Goku, that the landscape is quite literally being flared and torn through amongst the rushing wind brushing through it, as well as bloody fronts appearing in full on said combatants rather pithy... due to the power output they're throwing each other's way by the time they reach the sheer volume of power a SSj2 would wield at that battle power. That Cell disabled Gohan's arm with one 'simple chi-blast' at SSj2... well... that's the realm I've lapsed into when it comes to the surmising I made as a byproduct of said strength.

[quote user="deckzone3000"]Sure there is, there the ones that dont have such a jump in power when Gohan reaches SS2.[/quote]

Yeah... as a minimum, I would use a 5x multiplier. I really can't see a difference any place below 2x as a general template. Gohan was so strong that he literally busted a crater into Cell's head and caused him to reguritate #18 as a product of just that, with a kick to the head with even less effort than Goku against most of the Ginyu Force. His Kamehameha was so strong that there was no vivacious or interminable beam struggle... infact, there was no beam struggle, he just thoroughly owned Cell and his full power Kamehameha he put out right there (and the resulting limb generation).
There was no effort at all on his part, just rage, and with two punches, there was almost a visceral fountain or shower of blood trickling down from the edges of Cell's lips as he staggered back and was in question as to why at full power (which he termed as 'terrifying and true') he sustained so much damage from two punches the Gohan that poured about as much effort into it as a moving vehicle with a pinata bat. Already tightly clutching his chest for quite a lengthy time. Gohan really just pulled his punches from instantly making Cell explode in a bloody mess of a shower of organs and transpicuously surpassed him by quite a length. I could go with an infinitely lower multiplier, but... I can't see Gohan below 80,000,000,000 in that subject of circumstance and thought.

__________________

Broly

Legendary SSj7, I have a request to make. I would very much appreciate it you made powerlevels for movie 10. I read one of your previous posts earlier about you only having an interest in the ones that you made. So I can understand if you dont want to do it. But please, it would be much appreciated if you fulfilled my request.

__________________

gogeta is # 1

<blockquote>
Son Goku - 4,750,000
[healed] - 6,000,000
[Kaioken x10] - 60,000,000
[Kaioken x20] - 120,000,000
[Kaioken x20 Kamehameha] - 150,000,000
[Super Saiyajin] - 300,000,000
[Kamehameha] - 375,000,000
Son Gohan - 140,000
Kuririn - 50,000
Piccolo - 3,000,000
[without weighted clothes] - 3,800,000

Sauza - 425,000
Dore - 210,000
Neizu - 340,000
Coola - 5,750,000
[Transformed] - 200,000,000
[Deathball] - 300,000,000
</blockquote>1) Cooler stated that his 4th form was stronger than Freeza's 4th form. If Cooler is that weak, how come Goku had to do use kaoken times 10 and 20 on him? If he used Kaoken on Cooler's transformed form, than I am mistakened, however, Goku did use his kaoken on Cooler's 4th form too. Goku's normal form would have killed him according to your power levels.
2) When Goku did kaoken times 20 and got the power level of 120,000,000, that is weaker than Frieza according to your power level but how did it damage Cooler if Cooler was supposed to be stronger than Frieza in his own 4th form?
Note: If this question was asked already, then I am sorry. You can ignore this if it was and then I, myself, will figure out if it was by searching the older posts.
Please explain if I am wrong. DBZ movies confuse me sometimes. [unsure]

__________________
lolololol

LegendarySSJ7

[quote user="gogeta is # 1"]1) Cooler stated that his 4th form was stronger than Freeza's 4th form. If Cooler is that weak, how come Goku had to do use kaoken times 10 and 20 on him? If he used Kaoken on Cooler's transformed form, than I am mistakened, however, Goku did use his kaoken on Cooler's 4th form too. Goku's normal form would have killed him according to your power levels.[/quote]

This is a facet that piques my interest, but one to lapse into nontheless with candor. Coola states he was weaker than Freeza in his true form until he was able to transform himself one more time than his brother (by the Japanese dialogue's [or Steven J. Simmon's translation] own admittion), at which Goku states his chi was even stronger than that of Freeza's (what with him rapidly crying the such, with his rapidly blinking away eyes filled with shock and his mouth coming down as he was taken aback), mid-transformation (that Coola in his ultimate transformation was even stronger than organic Freeza at 100%). Not so much so that organic Freeza at 100% would be no place near, but enough so that there would be a noticeable gap to be accounted for. And I'm of the belief and understanding (of which hopefully can be validated) that Goku didn't flare up the Kaio-ken until after Cooler made off to transforming (his eyes didn't seem to be flashing as fiercely, and no such intense, red, dancing and lashing out waves of flame [adhering to the anime's rendition] and Goku's eyes shimmering in the harsh yet clean red light of an aura flared up).



[quote user="gogeta is # 1"]2) When Goku did kaoken times 20 and got the power level of 120,000,000, that is weaker than Frieza according to your power level but how did it damage Cooler if Cooler was supposed to be stronger than Frieza in his own 4th form?[/quote]

This is where odd, non-canon movie logic (or what I term as "TOEI logic") falls in place and where one can't fix a wise gaze. Goku comments that Coola in his ultimate transformation is even stronger than Freeza at 100%... presumably, the SSj Goku in Movie 5 is the same Goku that fought a battle on equal footing with Freeza at 100%? So... how is it that that same SSj Goku owned a stronger Coola in his ultimate transformation so thoroughly? Two things come to hand: Goku's auto-evolving mechanism increase from the Senzu in question, but more that Goku can't access SSj at will in this film. This also brings in that none of the movies are meant to have a lapse into the territory of the canon storyline; they're what-if scenarios nonwithstanding, if that makes things more lucid. So altering the non-canon battle powers to adhere to this is more a less a requisite in such subjects of circumstances and thoughts.

__________________

gogeta is # 1

Sorry, I forgot to excerpt...you deserve a 10/10. You made everything organized and everything makes sense. I appreciate your generosity.
Meta Coola - 262,500,000
[Repaired] - 420,000,000
I
don't think that the Meta-Coolers got stronger by getting repaired. I
think the first Meta-Cooler mentioned that he could correct flaws
because of the Big Gette Star and I think the flaws were something like
getting hurt...like one Meta-Cooler could have it's arm cut off (which
would be one flaw) but it came back together (to make no flaws = same
as originally before). I don't understand how that got it stronger. I
personally think that Goku and Vegeta were getting hurt because of the
number of Meta-Coolers and that the Meta-Coolers don't get tired
(Similar to the Ssj3 Goku and Kid Buu fight). If there were
Meta-Coolers of the power level of 420,000,000, Vegeta and Goku would
have been like roasted ducks.
In other words, I use the term correcting flaws as regenerating.
Like I said before, I'm not good with movies.

__________________
lolololol

LegendarySSJ7

[quote user="gogeta is # 1"] Meta Coola - 262,500,000
[Repaired] - 420,000,000
I don't think that the Meta-Coolers got stronger by getting repaired. I think the first Meta-Cooler mentioned that he could correct flaws because of the Big Gette Star and I think the flaws were something like getting hurt...like one Meta-Cooler could have it's arm cut off (which would be one flaw) but it came back together (to make no flaws = same as originally before). I don't understand how that got it stronger. I personally think that Goku and Vegeta were getting hurt because of the number of Meta-Coolers and that the Meta-Coolers don't get tired (Similar to the Ssj3 Goku and Kid Buu fight). If there were Meta-Coolers of the power level of 420,000,000, Vegeta and Goku would have been like roasted ducks.
In other words, I use the term correcting flaws as regenerating.
Like I said before, I'm not good with movies.
[/quote]There really wasn't a roof to what Meta Coola could or couldn't do at the point in question, to be forthright. After his eyes were wild and after repairing his defect, SSj Goku goes onto make the valid attempt yet still not have much of a worldly effect on Meta Cooler as he scowled darkly and widens his smirk, yet seem to have been more amused to no end if anything else. SSj Vegeta interjects, and still gets thoroughly owned and is no place near said Meta Coola in power. Given the non-canon material and logic (which, in a way, validates the statement), outside of their collaborated attempted, which had no real effect in outcome in hindsight (and even had the Meta Coolas at large managing more than just a shaky laugh). And I say that without trepidation and things of the such, to be assiduous.

__________________

Zer0

[quote user="gogeta is # 1"] Sorry, I forgot to excerpt...you deserve a 10/10. You made everything organized and everything makes sense. I appreciate your generosity.
Meta Coola - 262,500,000
[Repaired] - 420,000,000
I don't think that the Meta-Coolers got stronger by getting repaired. I think the first Meta-Cooler mentioned that he could correct flaws because of the Big Gette Star and I think the flaws were something like getting hurt...like one Meta-Cooler could have it's arm cut off (which would be one flaw) but it came back together (to make no flaws = same as originally before). I don't understand how that got it stronger. I personally think that Goku and Vegeta were getting hurt because of the number of Meta-Coolers and that the Meta-Coolers don't get tired (Similar to the Ssj3 Goku and Kid Buu fight). If there were Meta-Coolers of the power level of 420,000,000, Vegeta and Goku would have been like roasted ducks.
In other words, I use the term correcting flaws as regenerating.
Like I said before, I'm not good with movies.

[/quote]
The Meta-Coolas did get stronger how else would you explain Super Saiyan Son Goku exchanging blows with him than not being able to make Cola budge after he is repaired.

__________________

gogeta is # 1

I thought Goku was getting tired and couldn't use his full power because Meta-Cooler came back for more after regenerating. I'm not trying to be off topic. I understand now anyways.

__________________
lolololol

Zer0

__________________

Aken_Bosch

A few things:
1) Where does it mention Freeza's power in his first form is 530,000? Or do we just use this because he says his power is at least over a million when he transforms?
2) Why do you feel that Vegetto is stronger than Super Buu with Gohan?
3) Do you have any idea how much Vegeta would have to hold back during the fight with Pui Pui if he is that weak? Look what Cell's effortless blow did to Hercule (he survived, but that was obviously for comic relief) and look how Vegeta plays around with Pui Pui. Pui Pui should be at least a bit above where you put him.
4) I thought it was stated that King Cold was stronger than Freeza by Gohan.

LegendarySSJ7

[quote user="Zer0"]Why is Trunks base (post first RoSaT) stronger than Vegeta's base (post first RoSaT)[/quote]That wasn't my own interpretation, and a clamorous flub on my part. I wasn't even supposed to equal out the base Saiyans in question out (but still keeping them anyplace near to one to the other in power, obviously), so I'll fix around that with candor.

[quote user="Aken_Bosch"]A few things:
1) Where does it
mention Freeza's power in his first form is 530,000? Or do we just use
this because he says his power is at least over a million when he
transforms?


2) Why do you feel that Vegetto is stronger than Super Buu with Gohan?


3)
Do you have any idea how much Vegeta would have to hold back during the
fight with Pui Pui if he is that weak? Look what Cell's effortless blow
did to Hercule (he survived, but that was obviously for comic relief)
and look how Vegeta plays around with Pui Pui. Pui Pui should be at
least a bit above where you put him.




4) I thought it was stated that King Cold was stronger than Freeza by Gohan.[/quote]1) It mentions the such in Volume 24 / 8, by Freeza's own admission: "You see, sir, it&rsquo;s&hellip; 530,000." (his full capacity in his 1st stage in question)




2) Rou Kaioshin hinted to Shin Boo (Gohan Prime) being a stride from Base Vegetto to the degree of Base Vegetto being able to do away with said Shin Boo without accessing Super Saiyan power (Volume 41 / 25: "Should we be Super Saiyan before we use this?" Rou Kaioshin replies to Son Goku with... "But I don't think you'll need to!")




3) Then Majin Boo's third incarnation should have made Chibi Trunks explode on contact with that sucker punch with glazing over eyes and in a visceral, bloody mess of a fountain of blood? Not really.


4) Nope, Gohan's and Yamcha's statements respectively are no place near validating that claim in Volume 28 / 12:


"T-there's another big Chi, just like Freeza's...!!"




"They're... they're...behemoths! And there's two of them!!"

To further the thought, that Freeza stated himself to be the strongest in the universe on many an occasion by comparison to his own father says differently. And that King Cold was so afraid as to ask Trunks to join him (and that Trunks so insouciantly and blithe pierced right through him with a clean bar of simple, trembling chi, as aforementioned - blithe)

says differently as well.

__________________

SS2 Vegeto