Carazo

Since those facts are only related to Kuririn power, I don’t relate them to Ten Shin Han. I disagree, there isn’t any talk about a supposed or even something which makes me think of a supposed limit with the Kaio Sama training. In the Buu arc we see Goku training with Kaio Sama’s weights, and if Ten Shin Han wouldn’t increase much after some time because the 10x gravity doesn’t have any affect on him anymore, perhaps Kaio Sama would give Ten Shin Han, Yamcha and Chaoz weights? He did stay there for 1.5 year and he’s a true warrior. I’m not saying that the training wasn’t supposed to increase his power level, because it’s obvious that going from 416 to 8000+ says otherwise. But Piccolo did increase more his power level or so it seems in 6 days than Goku in a half year and since he didn’t learn the Kaio-ken or Genki Dama, what other conclusion can I take from this that the conclusion that I did take here above?In The Cell/ Buu arc, I have the feeling that Ten Shin Han is shown as the strongest human, since he’s the one who does something against the enemy and since Ten Shin Han talks about everyone who surpasses him during the first two volumes of the Cell arc and Kuririn isn’t amongst them. Why would the author makes those decision for Ten Shin Han’s character and not Kuririn who was like Yamcha more shown as a human and not as a warrior? I will never say it’s fact, but I and a lot of other people just have this feeling that Ten Shin Han is like in the previous sagas shown as the strongest human.

Zer0

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JAIF

... as well as to Goku's base in movie 13

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Tyro

JAIF

[quote user="Tyro"] If LegendarySSj7 wouldn't care for me to intrude upon the matter, I might be able to help.
[quote user="Carazo"]I disagree, there isn’t any talk about a supposed or even something which makes me think of a supposed limit with the Kaio Sama training. In the Buu arc we see Goku training with Kaio Sama’s weights, and if Ten Shin Han wouldn’t increase much after some time because the 10x gravity doesn’t have any affect on him anymore, perhaps Kaio Sama would give Ten Shin Han, Yamcha and Chaoz weights? He did stay there for 1.5 year and he’s a true warrior.[/quote]
Never stated. Goku was quite used to the Gravity after catching Bubbles. And Kaio-sama knew he had to fight Saiyans far stronger than himself, but he didn't give Goku any extra weights. Also notice Tenshinhan isn't wearing as much weighted clothing as Goku. He missing his weighted shirt. And he died without wearing any weighted clothing at all. So he could in fact be wearing his normal clothes. That means even less of a power increase.[/quote]
Ah but Kaio-sama can simply produce weights out of nowhere so it isn't really a problem. Also, Goku doesn't have gravity issues within the Room of Spirit and Time, yet the training there was extremely effective.
[quote user="Tyro"]
[quote user="Carazo"]I’m not saying that the training wasn’t supposed to increase his power level, because it’s obvious that going from 416 to 8000+ says otherwise.[/quote]
Actually, he went from a 1,220 (suppressed or unsuppressed, you tell me), not at full power, to a higher power. High enough for him to believe he'd actually do some good on Namek and for Nail to say he has tremendous power. However, I'm not here to say he surpassed Nail. I'm just stating facts.
[/quote]
1,220 is casual power-his full power had to be around 2,000, though anyplace below 2,300, as Gohan's full enraged masenko was at 2,800 and it shocked everyone to a great extent. But I had done the same mistake in the beginning-Piccolo couldn't have surpassed Nail at 42,000 in such a short time-he isn't even shown to be training much. Probably at the 10,000 range, definately not above that.
[quote user="Tyro"]
[quote user="Carazo"]In The Cell/ Buu arc, I have the feeling that Ten Shin Han is shown as the strongest human, since he’s the one who does something against the enemy and since Ten Shin Han talks about everyone who surpasses him during the first two volumes of the Cell arc and Kuririn isn’t amongst them.[/quote]
Ah, but look in Volume 25 of the Manga.
Shin Boo: "The ones who'll fight me. I want to kill them. I know they're here. The only place with big power."
Tenshinhan was still alive. He was somewhere around the world. And Shin Boo saw him, as he shot at him with a ki blast. Yet didn't mention him when telling the others. And this was after the Cell arc. When Kuririn gave up on training until the Tenkaichi Budokai.
[/quote]
On the Lookout Piccolo's power was present, who was in the billions, far above Tenshinhan and Kuririn. So it was natural that Shin Buu looked for the strongest power.
[quote user="Tyro"]
[quote user="Carazo"]Why would the author makes those decision for Ten Shin Han’s character and not Kuririn who was like Yamcha more shown as a human and not as a warrior?[/quote]
Kuririn was off getting the shut off switch for the Cyborgs from Bulma. He couldn't go watch the fight. And when he did, he attacked Cell, in perfect form. I'd say that's pretty brave.
[/quote]
Kuririn is basically a coward, with some small exceptions of bravery. Tenshinhan even stood his ground against Shin Buu (Gotenks prime). Even during the short time that Kuririn was above Tenshinhan, I bet Tenshinhan was still more willing to fight strong opponents than Kuririn. Kuririn doesn't have true fighting spirit (ok, post-Frieza saga).

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LegendarySSJ7

[quote user="SuperVegetto3"]Ah but Kaio-sama can simply produce weights out of nowhere so it isn't really a problem. Also, Goku doesn't have gravity issues within the Room of Spirit and Time, yet the training there was extremely effective.[/quote]

This is simple to answer. The RoSaT in question was "extremely effective" for Goku because the application of it and his training - Mastering the Super Saiyan in a year's span stepped him up from being possibly surpassed by a length by a pre-RoSaT SSj Vegeta to, only at half power, even meeting Trunk's gaze and taking him aback. And he himself had reached a third Super Saiyan type, who was still taken aback by the sheer volume of prodigious power he wielded at half power alone. Hence how the effectual aspect put to Vegeta's training and the resulting augmentation in power was no place near his 1st run in the RoSaT a 2nd time. I hope that sums up the parameters of this post.



[quote user="SuperVegetto3"]Kuririn is basically a coward, with some small exceptions of bravery. Tenshinhan even stood his ground against Shin Buu (Gotenks prime). Even during the short time that Kuririn was above Tenshinhan, I bet Tenshinhan was still more willing to fight strong opponents than Kuririn. Kuririn doesn't have true fighting spirit (ok, post-Frieza saga).[/quote]

Tenshinhan does this through the Neo Ki-ko-hô, and the possibly several fold improved Tenshinhan's attack wasn't anyplace close to affecting Shin Boo (Gotenks Prime) anyway. I'd say Kuririn flying into a rage and making the attempt to combat Cell, even if as the resulting actions in response to him siphoning #18, without opining in said thread, was a stride away and ahead from being craven.

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Carazo

As a matter or fact, we don’t know what Ten Shin Han and the others exactly do during there training with Kaio Sama so we just cannot talk about facts and we must limit us to assume.I prefer to think like this:Let’s assume that Ten Shin Han reaches 10,000 after training 6 months with Kaio Sama. The most normal thing would be that he keeps increasing in big numbers after this, by giving him weights for example.I’m not saying that Buu should consider Ten Shin Han something. But I keep thinking Toriyama makes interesting decisions with Ten Shin Han’scharacter that he doesn’t make with the other human’s, or am I the only one who sees this?Yamcha and Kuririn where once shown as warriors.I was talking about Goku.

mAIOR

great list! I give you a 9/10 on the canon part and wont rate the non-canon as I think it's not ratable due to speculation.
However, I believe that in the movie 13 Wrath of the Dragon you added one too many zeroes to Goku and Mystic Gohan is underpowered.
And in the Bojack Movie, you make Bojacks henchmen too strong. I think that they sghouldn't be able to face a super sayan one on one but still be strong enough to cause problems as a group.

Cheers...

SuperTien

[quote user="LegendarySSj7"] [quote user="SuperTien"]So why do you make krillin stronger than tien?[/quote]

Go ahead and contest that Tenshinhan survived a bout with #17 and 'Incomplete' Cell in his 2nd form (as well as transiently disabling Cell through the Neo Ki-ko-hô and its amount of output in tandem), but the Kuririn of this time survived a single hit from Complete Cell (though in the most suppressed state we see him in).
And that speaks volumes for itself.
[/quote]
Didn't Mr. Satan also survive a hit from Perfect cell?

LegendarySSJ7

[quote user="SuperTien"]Didn't Mr. Satan also survive a hit from Perfect cell?[/quote]

That was a droll and comedic moment, and in no way does it reflect the amount of 'output' or power Complete Cell wielded and displayed. One could also contest that he survived a hit from the Chibi, unaltered Boo (yet not from any of the other incarnations, such as the fat Incarnation of Boo). Again... these are jocular (or "comedy relief", if you prefer) moments and nothing more. That said, nothing more on the matter needs to be expanded by a lot and hopefully this gets the crux of the matter across.

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SS2 Vegeto

I don't believe the Fat Buu hit him, but Chibi Buu did...with a small, limp, pathetic jab popped out in the air lightly, sending Hercule rolling.

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JAIF

lol... Mr Satan's pl is like 10... if the fighting scenes with Mr Satan were "realistic", he would have been killed when Chibi Trunks punched him. Mr Satan is to break the tension and make the viewers laugh, that's all.

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UsernameGoesHere

probably the best list ive seen in a long time up until the Buu saga and the trillions. Thats where it got bad.

SS2 Vegeto

Theres really no possible justifiable way to make a proper power level list without characters in the Buu saga winding up in the trillions....I use 50x multipliers in the Buu saga, so my listings are somewhat higher than that.

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deckzone3000

[quote user="LegendarySSj7"]
Volume 14

#18 [holding back] - 397,500,000
[not holding back] - 520,000,000

Volume 21

Spopovitch - 4,250
Videl - 45


Volume 22

#18 - 600,000,000

Movie 6 / Clash!! 10,000,000,000 Powerful Warriors/ Return of Cooler
Meta Coola - 262,500,000
[Repaired] - 420,000,000

[/quote]
#18 got stronger?
What makes you believe Spopovich is nearly 100x stronger than Videl?
I doubt Spopvich was even a 10th of his power before Babadi's magic, so what do you think Pui Pui might have been before Babadi?
[quote user="SS2 Vegeto"]Theres really no possible justifiable way to make a proper power level list without characters in the Buu saga winding up in the trillions [/quote] Sure there is, there the ones that dont have such a jump in power when Gohan reaches SS2.

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Gohan during the cell games is a KID!
Gohan during the buu saga is a TEEN!