JAIF

[quote user="ultimate sayia-jin 5"]I have my doubts about Galaxy destroying even a Dwarf Galaxy is thousands of times larger then the solar system. Also the mass of even a Dwaf Galaxy is also millions or billions as much of times as the solar system. Also heard mentioning of what was interperted as me thinking AUs equal power levels the truth is I never said that. I simply used AUs because they are the best unit of mesurement for that distance. The only assumtion I made is power levels work to scale for instance I belive if someone can destroy 40 Square Miles some one 3 times as strong can destroy 120 Sqaure miles, and if some can destroy 4 AUs aomeone twice as strong can destoy 8 AUs. I could also have said .59 Light Years, 3.4875 Trillion MIles, 5.625 Trillion Kilometers, or even 5.625 Un Decillion yoctometers and many other units instead of the 37,500 AUs i used in that topic it was simply the best chioce IMO.[/quote]
Ahem.
Size of the moon: about 1/3 of the Earth
Kame-Sennin's power level: a little bit lower than 200
Frieza's power level: millions
So Frieza had to use full power to destroy a planet like the Earth like Roshi had to use full power to destroy the moon, whose size is only 1/3 of the Earth's size. But Frieza's power level is thousands of times bigger than Roshi's. So your theory about putting a scale between AU's (in general, size) and power levels is totally incorrect

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gogeta is # 1

When you said that Super Sayajin 3 Gotenks is 899.90313452742 times faster than light, it doesn't make any sense. Unless, Gotenks wasn't going as fast as he could around the Earth like about _____ times. So if he was seriously going around Earth really fast about 5 or 6 or 10 times (i forgot how many times), your theory says that he can go around Earth like 200 or 2000 times (didn't calculate but it is a high number).

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lolololol

ultimate sayia-jin 5

I belive Freeza failed to destroy Namek on purpose. Freeza even said he held back to much power. Goku then comments that Freeza did this because he was afraid of being cought in the explosion.

JAIF

I wasn't talking about Frieza final form. Anyway if you want take Vegeta (Saiyan saga), whose full power (with Galick Gun) was approximately 30,000. He was still like 150 times stronger than Muten Roshi, but he had to employ the same percentage of his power (100%) to destroy something only 3 times as big as what Muten Roshi could at the same percentage.

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SS2 Vegeto

It was basically stated, as I recall, that he didn't put as much power into it as he should have.

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SS2 Vegeto

Size isn't really the issue, when you consider the fact that if you pierced through to the core, he could destroy the whole thing entirely. Earth, being inbetween 3-4 times larger, would require the blast the pierce further, for someone like Roshi, and thus, it's doubtful he could even blow off as much of the earth as he did the moon. Vegeta's blast however, may have been stronger enough to basically pierce through to the other side instantly, or maybe even just blast the whole planet away. The amount of what you can destroy isn't completely exact to the increase, but it's not....an entirely enourmous length away from what it should be using that.

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ram9

its very hard to calculate how fast they have become coz there's an instance that ussj 3rd grade mirai trunks increase his power and energy but decrease his speed so basically those calculations about how they travel at the speed of light was wrong.

OberstGeiger

I want to contest this theory so I can basically blow it out of the water, despite how malicious that seems, but I find that it is fundamentally incorrect in the terms of physics. And I can say right now, I'm going to be spending a good hour or so doing this.
Ok, you got some static numbers. Distance, Time and then a power level.
D = 100m
T = 5.9s
Pl = 139
So, now that the statics are put down, we can come out with some new numbers. Such as velocity and this alone states how fast Master Roshi is going with a power level of 139 when he reaches 100 metres. The formula to get velocity is to take D divided by T :
V = 16.949152542372881355932203389831 m/s (m/s= Meters per second)

To check this answer, use the forumla of D=V*T (the star meaning multiplication). Doing this proves that said answer is correct. So that is the speed that Master Roshi has.
Now we have these numbers:
D = 100m
T = 5.9s
Pl = 139
V = 16.949152542372881355932203389831 m/s

Thus comes the point were we can come up with a new number, and this is were the power level becomes influential. We want to find acceleration for Master Roshi. Two ways this can be done. You can take: Change of Velocity divided by the Time Interval. Since neither of these are known as of yet, or at least been put down as they are quite obvious, I will go through using the second way of doing it: (Final Velocity - Inital velocity) divided by (Final Time - Initial Time). Since Master Roshi started at 0 m/s and started at 0s, both Initials are zero. Final time is 5.9s and Final Velocity 16.949152542372881355932203389831m/s. Therefore, to get acceleration for this, one would take the velocity and divide by time as stated earlier this getting:
A=2.8727377190462510772766446423442 m/s²
What does this mean? Well, it means that Master Roshi, with a power level of 139, is getting an acceleration of roughly 2.9m/s²


That being said, it does not mean that every second Master Roshi increases his speed by 2.9m/s² every single second because that would mean that there is no limit to his speed. That is obviously not the case in Dragonball z but sadly there is no idea of how to find Master Roshi's maximum speed.
D = 100m

T = 5.9s

Pl = 139

V = 16.949152542372881355932203389831 m/s
A = 2.8727377190462510772766446423442 m/s²
Those are the numbers that I've generated so far for Master Roshi. Now for Ultimate Gohan. Now he starts of with only his power level from LegendarySSj7:

Pl: 3,700,000,000,000

What is really wanted to know his velocity if he did something like this. With the information provided so far, it is not impossible to find but one cannont locate it specfically right away. So, to go by steps. We take Ultimate Gohan's power level and divide it by Master Roshi's. Thus we get 26618705035.97122302158273381295. That number is how many more times 139 fits into Ultimate Gohan's power level. Being said, Master Roshi's Accerlation for a power level of 139 can be applied by multiplying it with the number above. Thus we get these numbers now:

Pl: 3 700 000 000 000
A = 76468557989.000927956284785443694 m/s²

Granted enough, that is freaking faster than Master Roshi. That being said, given Ultimate Gohan 5.9 seconds, he would be traveling at this number:

Pl: 3 700 000 000 000
A = 76 468 557 989.000927956284785443694 m/s²
V = 451 164 492 135.1054749420802341178 m/s
T = 5.9s

How far would Ultimate Gohan get in 5.9 seconds? Well, to get D you take V*T. Getting the number 2 661 870 503 597.122302158273381295m. Thus the numbers we have now are...

Pl: 3 700 000 000 000

A = 76 468 557 989.000927956284785443694 m/s²

V = 451 164 492 135.1054749420802341178 m/s

T = 5.9s
D = 2 661 870 503 597.122302158273381295m

Lovely numbers so now we get down to the grit: The Speed of Light is 299,792,458 m/s in a vaccum or in space which in physics is shown by the letter c. Ultimate Gohan's acceleration alone is much higher than the speed of light alone. I would make a graph for you guys to see...but upon making it, I could only see Gohan's numbers as they dwarfed everything else lol.

But to get to the fact, my information is scientifically correct as far as I can show and it discredits your first theory number wise, Deep Thought. As for the idea of the speed of light, I am quite sure that Dragonball z character were going at the speed of light. As for destroying Galaxies and Solar Systems, that is so ridiculous that I have no reason at all to try and discredit you there.
Edit: Now this is all under the idea that transforming doesn't lower your speed which is the case for forms such as Ssj 3rd Grade Trunks and forms alike that. Though, not all forms are like that. But that is why it only works for some characters. The Ssj 3rd Grade form creates a variable that I don't have a full understanding of just yet and has no numerical value at all. Thus said, my theory only works with some characters and not all. But, there is always a way to figure things out: If there is a will, there is a way.

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Fan fusions will FUCK your Shit UP!

MSGohan

HerrGeiger:
Although your calculations are correct, but it seems that your assumptions are incorrect. The acceleration you've calculated is only the average acceleration over that distance. So your assumption is that Muten Roshi is constantly accelerating an reaces his maximum speed at t = 5.9 s. If you consider someone sprinting, he would only accelerate at the very begining, and would reach maximum speed quite fast. So in such cases the average speed over that distance, would be quite close to the maximum speed. So actually calculating the speed in the way you did would be more inaccurate, and the thread starters calculations seems more correct.
People uses Muten Roshi's speed at a PL 139, and then assumes a that speed is linearly proportional to PL. Now some of you already mentioned that speed doesn't need to increase at the same rate as PL, but using the example of USSJ levels, however the only thing we know about that level is that your STRENGH increases, we don't know the PL. Their PL could've remained the same when they transformed into USSJ, or even decaresed, or maybe just a small increase compared to what it should've been with that much strengh increase. But that is the only transformation where their speed decreased.
But the speed actually increases at a greater rate. Because Goku's speed traveling the snakeway was about 40.000 km/h, where his PL was about 5.000 (not powered up). But that PL is only about 36 times greater than Muten Roshi's PL, so Goku's speed should only be 36 times Muten Roshi's speed which is about 2.200 km/h, but since it is much higher than that, the conclusion is that speed doesn't increase linearly with powerlevel, but with higher (or non-constant?) "rate".
You don't need fan-made PL's to show that they can go FTL. SSJ Goku's PL on namek was 150.000.000, that is 30.000 times greater than his PL in the saiyan saga, where he showed a speed about 40.000 km/h. So his speed in NSSJ form should be (greater than, since the rate isn't constant but increasing) 30.000*40.000 km/h = 1,2*10^9 km/h = 1.11c, where c is the speed of light. So 100 % Freeza and NSSJ Goku should be moving at about the speed of light (if not greater). Maybe this is was Akira Toriyama's intention, that they should reach speed of light at the supposed end of DB?
As for why people doubt that Cell could destroy the solar system is beyond me. Why does it sound ridiculous, when considering that this is DBU? It should be just as ridiculous that a person can wipe out a planet with his "fingers" (Freeza). Anyway, I will refer to Legendary's reply on this.

OberstGeiger

Thanks for the input Sherlock holmes, but I already stated that transforming does things like that. And I did say about the constant accerlating constantly; I know there is a cap to it but I am quite sure Master Roshi is capable of going 16 meters per second.
(Um... it's sterling you don't mount conflict and find yourself in contest with other members like this, as it acts as catalyst and to have trappings on that... isn't the best subject of discussion, nor subject of thought. It's kind of when the sun brings itself down and all... is sent in a direction that doesn't insinuate a pleasant note to end things on. --LegendarySSj7)

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Fan fusions will FUCK your Shit UP!

MSGohan

I didn't say Roshi can't run at 16 m/s, it's just that it would be a LOWER limit to his speed, but that lower limit will be pretty close to his actual speed, since the acceleration would only occure for a very small time in the begining. If a you start running you would reach your maximum speed VERY FAST, maybe in less than a second. Using acceleration to estimate some other characters speed would be quite inaccurate in this situation, and therefore can't really be used.
And what's with the attitude, I didn't try to offend you or anything. I apologize if I did.

Deep Thought

The answer to almost all this is that Toriyama slowed everything down when he was drawing. If he drew battles accordinly, then he'd draw blurs, and I'd imagine that drawing blurs wouldn't be very exciting, in fact, he'd draw absolutly nothing (by my calculations) considering that the chracters move so quickly that drawing them in one spot realistically would be impossible, since they'd never stand in a spot for more than 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000001 seconds which would be beyond "blurred" it would be invisible. Only rarely does Akira Toriyama actually draw his characters as blurs. Secondly, in Dragon Ball Volume 4, Kurrin and Muten Roshi move so quickly that they cannot be seen. As for the Ultra Super Sayajin (or Super Sayajin Grade 2) debate, I didn't record those power levels on purpose, becuase my brain would be near to bursting if I tried to figure it out. Lastly, my Volume 4 mention puts an end to all those " Well, the power level lists were wrong, so you fail" debates.

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OberstGeiger

[quote user="MSGohan"]I didn't say Roshi can't run at 16 m/s, it's just that it would be a LOWER limit to his speed, but that lower limit will be pretty close to his actual speed, since the acceleration would only occure for a very small time in the begining. If a you start running you would reach your maximum speed VERY FAST, maybe in less than a second. Using acceleration to estimate some other characters speed would be quite inaccurate in this situation, and therefore can't really be used.
And what's with the attitude, I didn't try to offend you or anything. I apologize if I did.
[/quote]
Not using an attitude, just being cynical. I don't think that when you start running, you meeting your maximum speed very quickly wouldn't be completely correct in itself. I see 5.9 being a fair amount of time for which Master Roshi would reach his maximum speed. I have never seen anyone go as fast as they can in less than a second because that would require the brain to be much faster than what it is. And granted, the acceleration is inaccurate, which I know it isn't as I said that there is a cap to people's speed just that there is no way of knowing it. The numbers that I created are indeed average numbers as instantenous numbers are impossible to know with the information provided, as you should know as you realized right away what formulas I was using. Anyways, I can't write anymore; my wireless internet is disconnecting and reconnecting and is majorly pissing me off, and yes it is irelevant to the topic.

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Fan fusions will FUCK your Shit UP!

ram9

its no use to calculate their power level to determine their speed coz u ss 3rd grade mirai trunks increase his power level dramatically but loses his speed.

MSGohan

[quote user="ram9"]its no use to calculate their power level to determine their speed coz u ss 3rd grade mirai trunks increase his power level dramatically but loses his speed.[/quote]
I already replied to this. We only know they got STRONGER, we don't know how much their PL increased...