xTaken

I don't believe that any of the Z warriors travel faster than light. The reason being that images of themselves would be seen behind them constantly, AND that it requires an infinite amount of energy to travel that quickly.

Facts:
Earth = 42,000 km around or 25,000 miles
Light speed = 300,000 km per second or 186,000 miles per second.
Time it takes to go around the Earth: 7.46 seconds
Just curious, where did it say Gotenks went around the earth 10 times in a second?

Gozar

The line wasn't 10, it was "a couple dozen"........DBZ Vol.24 (DB Vol.40), Page 139.

__________________


"You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that
your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all
of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think
my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had
no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

The Chibi Kiriyama

[quote user="xTaken"]Just curious, where did it say Gotenks went around the earth 10 times in a second?[/quote]
To be honest, no place. If they did it wasn't in the canon manga at least. The quotes on that subject are in Volume 24 and are as such.
(After Gotenks proving how fast he is down on the Earth)
Super Saiyan Gotenks: "Took you long enough. I circled the globe a few dozen times. Even took a nap."
If you take 'a few dozen' to be 24 to 36 times, it's still not nearly as fast as the speed of light. It took him roughly 29 minutes to do so, and it was done with a deal of effort as he was showing off the speed he was confident would do Boo in. For the proof of approximate time:
Piccolo: "No! Stop!!! Arhh! That two-brained half-wit! They have less than a minute left!"
My thoughts on the matter? An entire fight happens within the span of a heartbeat with time for curses to be shouted during Vegeta's fight with a Kaio-ken times three empowered Goku. On Namek Goku and Freeza have enough time at full possible power to power up, fight a match, have a beam fight and argue over who gets their wish from the Dragon Balls all in the span of the first 2 minutes before Namek's remaining 5 minutes of life. Then there is the case of Super Saiyan Gotenks encircling the globe a few dozen times to prove his speed in a relatively relaxed state. I think it's theoretically possible for them to have been faster than the speed of light, but outside of Super Vegetto I don't think flight-wise anyone was that fast by the end of the series. The fundamental aspect of all of this is that it's a fighting manga- in real life people don't light up on fire with their own body energy and eject said energy from their hands, feet, eyes and mouths in fights. Toriyama wanted to end things on many an occasion. The fact that there are discrepancies stems from the fact that with an ending comes displays of power and with a display of power comes feats that normally would be impossible for the Zet Senshi.

Buutenks

[quote user="The Chibi Kiriyama"][quote user="xTaken"]Just curious, where did it say Gotenks went around the earth 10 times in a second?[/quote]
To be honest, no place. If they did it wasn't in the canon manga at least. The quotes on that subject are in Volume 24 and are as such.
(After Gotenks proving how fast he is down on the Earth)
Super Saiyan Gotenks: "Took you long enough. I circled the globe a few dozen times. Even took a nap."
If you take 'a few dozen' to be 24 to 36 times, it's still not nearly as fast as the speed of light. It took him roughly 29 minutes to do so, and it was done with a deal of effort as he was showing off the speed he was confident would do Boo in. For the proof of approximate time:
Piccolo: "No! Stop!!! Arhh! That two-brained half-wit! They have less than a minute left!"
My thoughts on the matter? An entire fight happens within the span of a heartbeat with time for curses to be shouted during Vegeta's fight with a Kaio-ken times three empowered Goku. On Namek Goku and Freeza have enough time at full possible power to power up, fight a match, have a beam fight and argue over who gets their wish from the Dragon Balls all in the span of the first 2 minutes before Namek's remaining 5 minutes of life. Then there is the case of Super Saiyan Gotenks encircling the globe a few dozen times to prove his speed in a relatively relaxed state. I think it's theoretically possible for them to have been faster than the speed of light, but outside of Super Vegetto I don't think flight-wise anyone was that fast by the end of the series. The fundamental aspect of all of this is that it's a fighting manga- in real life people don't light up on fire with their own body energy and eject said energy from their hands, feet, eyes and mouths in fights. Toriyama wanted to end things on many an occasion. The fact that there are discrepancies stems from the fact that with an ending comes displays of power and with a display of power comes feats that normally would be impossible for the Zet Senshi.
[/quote]

Well Gotenks stated that he took a nap,which means that he didn't made his trip in 29 minutes,but less and Gotenks can't breath in space(though a saiyan could probably survive for 2-3minutes,but him being half saiayn means that he probably can survive only 1-2 minutes) so it means that he made it in 1- 3 minutes or less,but he could have done it in one second and then he took a nap for 29 minutes,so it's possible.When they fight they probably move that fast,but when they fly,no.

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Legendary Super Saiya-Jin



No one can stand up to Cell....

xTaken

I'm still not convinced that anyone, even Super Vegetto, travels at light speed. At most, I think the fastest anyone can travel is 1/10c, which is about 70% of the Earth in a second (30,000km per second). I think that Gotenks traveled the Earth at around 2520km/s, but that of course is assuming a lot of things.

Gozar

Chibi- That's not true, he could have circled the globe 24-36 times in say 0.1 seconds & took a nap for all we know. Maybe Piccolo had trouble finding him because he was asleep.

__________________


"You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that
your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all
of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think
my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had
no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

xTaken

Since he's stronger than SS3 Goku, I doubt he would have trouble finding him. Especially on the same planet.

Buutenks

[quote user="xTaken"]Since he's stronger than SS3 Goku, I doubt he would have trouble finding him. Especially on the same planet.
[/quote] Maybe that's because he was a sleep,when you sleep your ki level is so low that you can't be snesed anymore.So that's what probably happened,Gotenks made his trip in a couple of seconds and then he slept,so it was impossible for Piccolo to sense where he was.

__________________


Legendary Super Saiya-Jin



No one can stand up to Cell....

Buutenks

[quote user="xTaken"]I'm still not convinced that anyone, even Super Vegetto, travels at light speed. At most, I think the fastest anyone can travel is 1/10c, which is about 70% of the Earth in a second (30,000km per second). I think that Gotenks traveled the Earth at around 2520km/s, but that of course is assuming a lot of things.
[/quote]You don't have anthing to prove what you just said,but out of the Gotenks thing you can make it be what you want.He could have done it in 1 second or 1 minute or 2(this is because Gotens can't breath in space,so being only half saiyan he can probably survive for 1 or 2 minutes)

And Akira Toriyama said that they got form running at super speed to moving at light speed,so maybe they don't fly that fast,but they sure fight at those speeds.

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Legendary Super Saiya-Jin



No one can stand up to Cell....

params7

hehe, welcome to MFG Buutenks. Good to see you here as well.


And let me remind you all, the scan clearly shows Gotenks circling earth in its outer orbit, the space.
Saiyans share human traits of the respiaratory system, that would mean Gotneks being any longer than a second or two would've frozen to death.
(This is explain nicely in the movie Mission To Mars)
And some of Gotenks orbit's have any diameter to fit in two earth's completely.
That is a faster than light speed feat.

Though, Chibi got what I wanted to say. Fights were being done over in a second during the 21-22nd Budokai's. If that's the speed Kid Goku was fighting in, just imagine how fast end DBZ character would be fighting at.
In short, their fighting/reflex speeds in way, way faster than what they travel at.
Their flying speed is not dependant on the amount of power/Ki.
(For example, Piccolo had a lower powerlevel than Goku, yet he said Goku was no match for him in flying speed when they were going after Raditz)




There's not much evidence in the manga, but there is plenty evidence in the anime which would support them being light speed.

During the training with Kami, Kid Goku had managed to dodge several lightning. And lightnings travel at 1/3-1/4 the Speed Of Light. In the manga, Mr.Popo says Goku would have to be faster than lightning and than moves really fast. Also this only exists in the anime, but King Kai wasn't able to sense Freeza and ssj Goku go all out on each other, when he could sense FTL spacepods of Nappa and Vegeta.
So at least in the anime/non-canon world it can actually be established they do move FTL (there are tons more evidence of Ki Blasts being faster t han light also). Sadly there isn't much evidence to side this in the canon manga.

SaiyajinPerfection

I think that the only lightspeed movement occurs when dodging or attacking, something that doesn't consist of traveling long distances (like flying around the world for example).
Also Gotenks is extremely pig-headed, he could've been lying when he said that he took a nap in the time it took Piccolo to find him. He could've also been lying about traveling around the world a few dozen times.

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Buutenks

[quote user="demonkingpiccolo"]I think that the only lightspeed movement occurs when dodging or attacking, something that doesn't consist of traveling long distances (like flying around the world for example).
Also Gotenks is extremely pig-headed, he could've been lying when he said that he took a nap in the time it took Piccolo to find him. He could've also been lying about traveling around the world a few dozen times.
[/quote]

I agree with the first part,but I don't agree with the second one.Those were Toriyama's wrods,he wanted to make Gotenks seem impressive.This was stated,you cannot ignore it and say that maybe he was lying so it took him 29 minutes to make his trip because it's not true.He wasn't lying and Toriyama wanted to show us what happened in those 29 minutes and if you look in the manga Gotenks went 7-9 times around the planet,so no he wasn't lying.

If Gotenks went around the world a few times in 29 minutes(which he didn't because he said that he took a nap and he can't survive long in space) then it means that he cant fly faster than Kaio-ken 10 Goku,Freeza,ssj Goku,Vegeta,Gohan etc.So no Gotenks wasn't lying when he made his statement and he wasn't lying when he said that he went a dozen times around the planet because you could see that he went at least 7 times around the planet.

__________________


Legendary Super Saiya-Jin



No one can stand up to Cell....

SaiyajinPerfection

[quote user="Buutenks"][quote user="demonkingpiccolo"] I think that the only lightspeed movement occurs when dodging or attacking, something that doesn't consist of traveling long distances (like flying around the world for example).
Also Gotenks is extremely pig-headed, he could've been lying when he said that he took a nap in the time it took Piccolo to find him. He could've also been lying about traveling around the world a few dozen times.
[/quote]

I agree with the first part,but I don't agree with the second one.Those were Toriyama's wrods,he wanted to make Gotenks seem impressive.This was stated,you cannot ignore it and say that maybe he was lying so it took him 29 minutes to make his trip because it's not true.He wasn't lying and Toriyama wanted to show us what happened in those 29 minutes and if you look in the manga Gotenks went 7-9 times around the planet,so no he wasn't lying.

If Gotenks went around the world a few times in 29 minutes(which he didn't because he said that he took a nap and he can't survive long in space) then it means that he cant fly faster than Kaio-ken 10 Goku,Freeza,ssj Goku,Vegeta,Gohan etc.So no Gotenks wasn't lying when he made his statement and he wasn't lying when he said that he went a dozen times around the planet because you could see that he went at least 7 times around the planet.

[/quote]
Well, I somewhat agree with that, but you also have to realize that 7-9 times is NOWHERE near a few Dozen. Gotenks Stated that he had gone around the word a few dozen times, not just one. A few dozen can range anywhere from 24 to perhaps 144 or even more then that. I agree that Gotenks is impressive, Toriyama did want us to know that, But I doubt that he could encircle the world a few dozen times in a half hour. I truly believe he was bluffing when he told Piccolo that. Maybe one dozen or perhaps less is more like it.
PS: Welcome to MFG

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SS2 Vegeto

At the speed of light, you can travel around the planet roughly 7 times
in one second. There is one panel that shows the streaks of energy
around the planet, left by SSJ Gotenks, and if you count, there are 5
full rotations. Since....streaks of light disapear very quickly, and
the streams of energy seemed to a little bit further out than earth's
atmosphere, I think it's safe to assume that SSJ Gotenks is.....around
the speed of light.

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xTaken

What I said before:
"I'm still not convinced that anyone, even Super Vegetto, travels at
light speed. At most, I think the fastest anyone can travel is 1/10c,
which is about 70% of the Earth in a second (30,000km per second). I
think that Gotenks traveled the Earth at around 2520km/s, but that of
course is assuming a lot of things."
I stand by what I said. 2520 = 1/20th cleared in a second. A SECOND! Isn't that fast enough for you people?! That's a quarter of Canada! In a second!