Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ

Gozar · 07-13-2006

OK, I haven't been in a fun debate here in a while so it's time to revive an old classic.....

Which Form is STRONGER, USSJ (USSJ2/SSJ 3'rd Grade) or FPSSJ.....not which is a better form to fight in, not which is faster, & not which makes the best muffins....PHYSICALLY STRONGER.

OK, I think it's USSJ, let's start at the beginning:

When Trunks first transforms, Cell looks scared crap-less at first, the same is not for Goku when Goku goes all-out.

Next, there is of course Cell's statement to Trunks "Your power surpasses mine by a wide margin", this is the biggest statement of all, because.......why would Cell lie?

Next, when Goku goes 50% Power for Korin, Korin states they don't know how strong Cell will become when things get down & dirty but as things stand now, Cell is stronger than Goku, so....Max Cell>>>>>Cell against Trunks (the Cell that Korin compared Goku to)>Goku....this is the same Cell that admitted Trunks to be stronger.

Now then, some may say the gang was freaked out when they felt Goku's ki, but I think that was just in shock of how powerful he is since he's only SSJ1.....if you look at everyone's faces when Goku goes FP against Cell, Vegeta & Piccolo are freaked out but Trunks has a more calm face on, simply blocked his eyes from the wind.

Ah yes, who could forget the one statement that contradicts this, Krillin's statement of "His (Goku) ki surpasses all of ours"...well first off I believe there is more evidence in favor of USSJ than FPSSJ so USSJ should win regardless of this statement, however it is my theory that Krillin was told by Trunks why he lost to Cell, so it became apparent that Trunks would not be using USSJ & only go as far as ASSJ, thus making ASSJ the max Trunks would go & FPSSJ>>>>ASSJ.

Well, that's what I hafta say for now.

**LegendarySSJ7** · 07-13-2006

"FPSSJ". By. Far.

I'm not attempting to snub out the fact that SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks surmounted a very, very suppressed Complete Cell (rigidly using only a bitty percentage of his full power), and that he was significantly stronger than both MSSj Goku at 50% and that suppressed Complete Cell, but the instant MSSj Goku went full power, Mirai Trunks stated Goku had no peer. He wouldn't have said that if Goku, at full power, was weaker than Mirai Trunks was only after his 1st run through the RoSaT at full power as a SSj 3rd Grade. And when Mirai Trunks came to concede this, it was very obviously after his 2nd run through the RoSaT.

Not to mention the mortifying fact that Mirai Trunks couldn't even land a single, solitary hit on that suppressed Complete Cell. The SSj 3rd Form is intrinsically a failed form of the SSj transformations, as is 2nd Grade, or "inferior", if you will. Both of them come with their qualms - that being compromising power for speed, lucidly.

As for Cell having that frightened countenance for those few seconds as Mirai Trunks transforms and admitting that he surpassed him, Cell simply didn't know what kind of transformation Mirai Trunks was going through, and once became cognizant of this, easily saw the flaws of it and how useless it is, and meant that he surpassed himself, granted; the small percentage of power he was actually using.

In spite of all this, "FPSSJ" transcends "USSJ" by leaps and bounds, in a nutshell.

And imputing the fact that this is intended to be a Debate Thread, I'm moving it to the Debating Forum.

Gozar · 07-13-2006

I think you are severely under-estimating how much power Cell was using "a bitty percentage" is way too low IMO......now then, Trunks did infact say that Goku was the best, which Goku was, Goku at FPSSJ could clearly beat Trunks in a fight because USSJ was so slow.....it was apparaent that Goku was extremely powerful & extremely fast, making him the best fighter there, but that's not to say that he was physically more powerful.

**LegendarySSJ7** · 07-13-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozar

I think you are severely under-estimating how much power Cell was using "a bitty percentage" is way too low IMO......now then, Trunks did infact say that Goku was the best, which Goku was, Goku at FPSSJ could clearly beat Trunks in a fight because USSJ was so slow.....it was apparaent that Goku was extremely powerful & extremely fast, making him the best fighter there, but that's not to say that he was physically more powerful.

Although a bitty percentage may or may not be a bit of a hyperbole, Cell powers up a number of two times (three times technically) - first time, powering up in order to fight MSSj Goku at full power, which he has a clear advantage against. This roughly doubles his power level. Then, MSSj Gohan brings even more effort out of Complete Cell. Of course, not to a great extent. This augments his power level by roughly 10%, by my estimations. So it's not really a notable power up.

And finally, Cell pulling out all the stops and going full power. While the power up is relatively terse in the Manga - just judging by the Zet Senshi's reactions and the Earth trembling and seemingly on the verge of exploding, as they commented - they made it appear as if his powered up state was nil in contrast to his full power. This being said, I would say that's at least a two fold difference, though I would personally say higher. Taking this all into account, Cell was rigidly using 15%-25% of his full power against SSj 2nd Grade Vegeta and SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks, and roughly around 33%-50% of his power against MSSj Goku (at full power) and Gohan, by my guestimations.

That does qualify as a small percentage, as aforementioned, and supports the notion of Super-Super Mirai Trunks (at full power) only surpassing a very compressed Kanzentai Cell. And when Mirai Trunks commented on MSSj Goku having no peer, this was prior to seeing his gait in action. Meaning that Mirai Trunks was referring to MSSj Goku's Ki, or more simply, his power.... omitting speed, in that case.

Gozar · 07-14-2006

Agaian, I think you're underestimating what a power up can be, why just think.....Vegeta on Namek (PL 24,000) beat the crap out of Pre-Transformed Zarbon, who was at like maybe 22,000'ish....so if Vegeta can beat the crap out of him with such a small percentage difference in power...when Cell Powers up he could be going like 7-10% stronger & it'll still be a lot IMO.

As far as Trunks statement, it was made clear to Trunks why Goku was using FPSSJ, Goku far susprassed ASSJ Trunks in power & was clearly gonna be faster so in essence Goku did have no peer.

**LegendarySSJ7** · 07-14-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozar

Agaian, I think you're underestimating what a power up can be, why just think.....Vegeta on Namek (PL 24,000) beat the crap out of Pre-Transformed Zarbon, who was at like maybe 22,000'ish....so if Vegeta can beat the crap out of him with such a small percentage difference in power...when Cell Powers up he could be going like 7-10% stronger & it'll still be a lot IMO.

As far as Trunks statement, it was made clear to Trunks why Goku was using FPSSJ, Goku far susprassed ASSJ Trunks in power & was clearly gonna be faster so in essence Goku did have no peer.

Vegeta didn't neccessarily "beat the crap out of him" as much as he just had the tangible advantage in that fight. Note how Zarbon renovated from each blow without much ado, and really wasn't gravely injured by any means.

It was an cognate case with MSSj Goku doing battle with Complete Cell - Goku, like Zarbon, had trouble keeping up with Complete Cell, as Complete Cell easily fended off the bulk of Goku's attacks and easily blocked, dodged, and countered each-blow, beating on him. With the exception of Goku with some aces with his own in that fight, Goku was at a disadvantage, but came back from each blow, not precisely hurt. Reminiscent of Gohan vs. Dabra, for paragon. Plus, if it was only a 10% difference, the Zet Senshi would not have had the reaction they had to Complete Cell powering up to full power.

And what does "ASSJ" Mirai Trunks being surpassed by MSSj Goku have to do with this? SSj 3rd Grade - by all means, in spite of the severe speed decrease, was Mirai Trunk's intention of full power. Plus, Goku hadn't powered up at all prior to that fight, so doubling his power level would pretty much leave Mirai Trunks in the dust. In a nutshell, MSSj Goku at full power and Complete Cell, powered up by far trounces SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks. Not to mention the vehement speed advantage. Not that I'm attempting to decry Mirai Trunks, but all signs connotate that MSSj Goku is far stronger than SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks, given all of this.

Thus, MSSj easily outstrips SSj 3rd Grade in my book.

Gozar · 07-14-2006

Well ok...Dodoria then, Dodoria is 20,000-21,000.

I think you're wrong Again, I wouldn't say had a big advatnage in the fight, given he did have the advantage but it was much closer than the Vegeta/Zarbon.

Well, ASSJ Trunks has to do with things because Trunks will not be going USSJ since he's very slow in that form, ASSJ is an overall better form to fight in than USSJ, so since FPSSJ Goku was far stronger than ASSJ Trunks, that is the reason Trunks made his statement. Now then I don't really see how you proved anything with this, no dis-respect, but no actual signs point to FPSSJ:

Korin states that Cell>Goku based on the comparison of the Cell that fought Trunks......Trunks>Cell, stated by Cell, so Trunks>Cell>Goku.

**LegendarySSJ7** · 07-14-2006

Rudimentarily, what I'm trying to say here is that SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks *was* significantly stronger than MSSj Goku and Complete Cell.... until Goku powered up to full power and Complete Cell powered up. Both of them doubling their powers, and therefore, by far exceeding SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks. Cell knew Mirai Trunks transcended him - but not by that prodigious of a margin.

A 2 fold difference very well fits that. Not to mention that neither Complete Cell nor Goku powered up until the Cell Games... easily purporting that Goku was still at 50% of his full power as a MSSj and Complete Cell was only using the amount of power he was using against Vegeta and Mirai Trunks to do their "warm-up".

So, with all that said, to put it simply:

Complete Cell, powered up > or >> MSSj Goku, at full power >>>>> Super-Super Mirai Trunks >>> Complete Cell => MSSj Goku, at 50% of full power

That, being toppled by the speed advantage (although that's not precisely pertinent in this debate), easily sets MSSj being stronger than SSj 3rd Grade in stone.

Gozar · 07-14-2006

But how can that be? Goku states to Korin he went about 50%.....so if Korin still thought Goku was weaker than Cell....& Cell says Trunks was stronger than him.....how can your theory make sense.

**LegendarySSJ7** · 07-14-2006

Karin also engendered the fact that Complete Cell still hadn't unveiled the bulk of his power as of yet. At the time of him contrasting Goku's power to Cell's, he was using Mastered Super Saiyan Goku (at 50% full power) and Complete Cell (suppressed, prior to powering up) as a reference. This elucidates Cell using higher and higher percentages of his Complete power, that weren't precisely revealed before the Cell Games.

Again, to reiterate, against Vegeta, Mirai Trunks, Goku, and Gohan. This also clarifies why Complete Cell conceded that SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks (at full power) notably surmounted him in power... and why MSSj, by far, outstrips SSj 3rd Grade.

See where I'm coming from here?

Gozar · 07-15-2006

But the comparison was not directly comparing 50% Goku to Cell as he was, it was doubling Goku's power, since Korin is a master & everything he can get a feel for what things would be like at 100%....that was the comparison & not the 50%.

The Chibi Kiriyama · 07-15-2006

This is pretty simple to respond to- FPSSJ. Trunks had no comprehension of the power that Goku had when he converted the transformation effort into a power bonus, and this is after what is established to be post Super-Super Saiyan for him. All he could sense at first was a power way below his own. That he was amazed at Goku's power just at half says something, and then he's blown away by the sheer power of both combatants even after his RoSaT training says even more. I'll just go with a chart and leave the responses or rebuttals (if any) for later. Bit tied for time at the moment.

Full power SSS Trunks > Cell (suppressed)

Half power MSS Goku < Cell (Korin's estimation)

Warming-up MSS Goku = Warming-up Cell

Full power MSS Goku < Powered-up Cell

Full power MSS Goku > Full power SSS Trunks

If anyone has any proof otherwise, blast away.

Gozar · 07-15-2006

Ah, I see what angle you are taking....well that can be explained......they sudden upburst in power was a shock....though that is jujst a theory...everything I have previously stated is not.....can you please try & contradict what I have said? Because I have no clue what angle LSSJ7 is taking.

**LegendarySSJ7** · 07-15-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozar

Ah, I see what angle you are taking....well that can be explained......they sudden upburst in power was a shock....though that is jujst a theory...everything I have previously stated is not.....can you please try & contradict what I have said? Because I have no clue what angle LSSJ7 is taking.

I'm taking an angle akin to The Chibi Kiriyama, which the exception of the fact that I am under the notion that MSSj Goku fought at the 50% of his full power he powered up to infront of Karin, and that Complete Cell was using the same amount of power he was using against Vegeta and Trunks in his "warm-up" against Goku, or so to speak. There was no evident power up to be found by either Goku or Complete Cell until they ostentatiously powered up at the Cell Games, as far as I can see. But then again, just in my view.

...

And again, these are all theories on tentative grounds. Cell admitting that Trunks surpassed him can be taken into many different construings. Such a statement can be contradicted, as we can either interperet this statement as Cell meaning that Trunks surpassed Cell's full intention of his Complete power's full power - or, that Trunks only exceeded him given the amount of power he was utilizing at that time period.

The angle is simple. Super-Super Trunks, at full power, had surpassed the Complete Cell we saw before the Cell Games, yet was paltry in comparison to the power/speed Goku and the complete mastery of the Super Saiya-jin 1 form he embraced ultimately warranted.

Gozar · 07-15-2006

Ah, I see the angle you are taking now, you're saying that when the fight began Goku was only fighting at 50% & later on whe him & Cell both power up, Goku takes it to max while Cell brings is higher aswell.

OK, well first of all, Cell's original statement of Trunks superiority shouldn't have been reffering to the current PL of him & rather him as a whole.....just think for a second, if Cell was physically stronger than Trunks at FP or hell not even at FP, he would have no reason to say that Trunks had surpassed him...let alone adding in the "wide margin" line....someone with enough physical power to overpower Trunks esspecially someone of Cell's personality would not simply throw out that line.

Next...when Korin made his comparison, he would not copmpare 50% FPSSJ Goku & say "you're still at a slight disadvantage", that's silly to say "the way things stand now, you're at a slight disadvantage to Cell at 50%, therefore you will lose", what kind of logic is that? Korin's comparison was doubling the ki that he felt from Goku & comparing it to Cell's.......as for Goku & Cell's opening, Goku was probably fighting at a much higher PL than 50%, maybe more like 75%...Goku doesn't acctually need to power up to obtain power in the FPSSJ state, remember, it's his natural state, it doesn;t take activation energy, his powering up state for Korin was a slow & steady process made so Korin could get a good feel for his ki, I mean normally it wouldn't take that long to go only 50%....as for his power up against Cell, that was common Full Power Power Up.

07-13-2006	#1 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ OK, I haven't been in a fun debate here in a while so it's time to revive an old classic..... Which Form is STRONGER, USSJ (USSJ2/SSJ 3'rd Grade) or FPSSJ.....not which is a better form to fight in, not which is faster, & not which makes the best muffins....PHYSICALLY STRONGER. OK, I think it's USSJ, let's start at the beginning: When Trunks first transforms, Cell looks scared crap-less at first, the same is not for Goku when Goku goes all-out. Next, there is of course Cell's statement to Trunks "Your power surpasses mine by a wide margin", this is the biggest statement of all, because.......why would Cell lie? Next, when Goku goes 50% Power for Korin, Korin states they don't know how strong Cell will become when things get down & dirty but as things stand now, Cell is stronger than Goku, so....Max Cell>>>>>Cell against Trunks (the Cell that Korin compared Goku to)>Goku....this is the same Cell that admitted Trunks to be stronger. Now then, some may say the gang was freaked out when they felt Goku's ki, but I think that was just in shock of how powerful he is since he's only SSJ1.....if you look at everyone's faces when Goku goes FP against Cell, Vegeta & Piccolo are freaked out but Trunks has a more calm face on, simply blocked his eyes from the wind. Ah yes, who could forget the one statement that contradicts this, Krillin's statement of "His (Goku) ki surpasses all of ours"...well first off I believe there is more evidence in favor of USSJ than FPSSJ so USSJ should win regardless of this statement, however it is my theory that Krillin was told by Trunks why he lost to Cell, so it became apparent that Trunks would not be using USSJ & only go as far as ASSJ, thus making ASSJ the max Trunks would go & FPSSJ>>>>ASSJ. Well, that's what I hafta say for now. __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

07-13-2006	#2 (permalink)
LegendarySSJ7 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: LA, CA, USA. Posts: 2,736 Rep Power: 48	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ "FPSSJ". By. Far. I'm not attempting to snub out the fact that SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks surmounted a very, very suppressed Complete Cell (rigidly using only a bitty percentage of his full power), and that he was significantly stronger than both MSSj Goku at 50% and that suppressed Complete Cell, but the instant MSSj Goku went full power, Mirai Trunks stated Goku had no peer. He wouldn't have said that if Goku, at full power, was weaker than Mirai Trunks was only after his 1st run through the RoSaT at full power as a SSj 3rd Grade. And when Mirai Trunks came to concede this, it was very obviously after his 2nd run through the RoSaT. Not to mention the mortifying fact that Mirai Trunks couldn't even land a single, solitary hit on that suppressed Complete Cell. The SSj 3rd Form is intrinsically a failed form of the SSj transformations, as is 2nd Grade, or "inferior", if you will. Both of them come with their qualms - that being compromising power for speed, lucidly. As for Cell having that frightened countenance for those few seconds as Mirai Trunks transforms and admitting that he surpassed him, Cell simply didn't know what kind of transformation Mirai Trunks was going through, and once became cognizant of this, easily saw the flaws of it and how useless it is, and meant that he surpassed himself, granted; the small percentage of power he was actually using. In spite of all this, "FPSSJ" transcends "USSJ" by leaps and bounds, in a nutshell. And imputing the fact that this is intended to be a Debate Thread, I'm moving it to the Debating Forum. __________________

07-13-2006	#3 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ I think you are severely under-estimating how much power Cell was using "a bitty percentage" is way too low IMO......now then, Trunks did infact say that Goku was the best, which Goku was, Goku at FPSSJ could clearly beat Trunks in a fight because USSJ was so slow.....it was apparaent that Goku was extremely powerful & extremely fast, making him the best fighter there, but that's not to say that he was physically more powerful. __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

07-14-2006	#5 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ Agaian, I think you're underestimating what a power up can be, why just think.....Vegeta on Namek (PL 24,000) beat the crap out of Pre-Transformed Zarbon, who was at like maybe 22,000'ish....so if Vegeta can beat the crap out of him with such a small percentage difference in power...when Cell Powers up he could be going like 7-10% stronger & it'll still be a lot IMO. As far as Trunks statement, it was made clear to Trunks why Goku was using FPSSJ, Goku far susprassed ASSJ Trunks in power & was clearly gonna be faster so in essence Goku did have no peer. __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

07-14-2006	#7 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ Well ok...Dodoria then, Dodoria is 20,000-21,000. I think you're wrong Again, I wouldn't say had a big advatnage in the fight, given he did have the advantage but it was much closer than the Vegeta/Zarbon. Well, ASSJ Trunks has to do with things because Trunks will not be going USSJ since he's very slow in that form, ASSJ is an overall better form to fight in than USSJ, so since FPSSJ Goku was far stronger than ASSJ Trunks, that is the reason Trunks made his statement. Now then I don't really see how you proved anything with this, no dis-respect, but no actual signs point to FPSSJ: Korin states that Cell>Goku based on the comparison of the Cell that fought Trunks......Trunks>Cell, stated by Cell, so Trunks>Cell>Goku. __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

07-14-2006	#8 (permalink)
LegendarySSJ7 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: LA, CA, USA. Posts: 2,736 Rep Power: 48	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ Rudimentarily, what I'm trying to say here is that SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks was significantly stronger than MSSj Goku and Complete Cell.... until Goku powered up to full power and Complete Cell powered up. Both of them doubling their powers, and therefore, by far exceeding SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks. Cell knew Mirai Trunks transcended him - but not by that prodigious of a margin. A 2 fold difference very well fits that. Not to mention that neither Complete Cell nor Goku powered up until the Cell Games... easily purporting that Goku was still at 50% of his full power as a MSSj and Complete Cell was only using the amount of power he was using against Vegeta and Mirai Trunks to do their "warm-up". So, with all that said, to put it simply: Complete Cell, powered up > or >> MSSj Goku, at full power >>>>> Super-Super Mirai Trunks >>> Complete Cell => MSSj Goku, at 50% of full power That, being toppled by the speed advantage (although that's not precisely pertinent in this debate), easily sets MSSj being stronger than SSj 3rd Grade in stone. __________________

07-14-2006	#9 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ But how can that be? Goku states to Korin he went about 50%.....so if Korin still thought Goku was weaker than Cell....& Cell says Trunks was stronger than him.....how can your theory make sense. __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

07-14-2006	#10 (permalink)
LegendarySSJ7 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: LA, CA, USA. Posts: 2,736 Rep Power: 48	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ Karin also engendered the fact that Complete Cell still hadn't unveiled the bulk of his power as of yet. At the time of him contrasting Goku's power to Cell's, he was using Mastered Super Saiyan Goku (at 50% full power) and Complete Cell (suppressed, prior to powering up) as a reference. This elucidates Cell using higher and higher percentages of his Complete power, that weren't precisely revealed before the Cell Games. Again, to reiterate, against Vegeta, Mirai Trunks, Goku, and Gohan. This also clarifies why Complete Cell conceded that SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks (at full power) notably surmounted him in power... and why MSSj, by far, outstrips SSj 3rd Grade. See where I'm coming from here? __________________

07-15-2006	#11 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ But the comparison was not directly comparing 50% Goku to Cell as he was, it was doubling Goku's power, since Korin is a master & everything he can get a feel for what things would be like at 100%....that was the comparison & not the 50%. __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

07-15-2006	#12 (permalink)
The Chibi Kiriyama (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Henderson, Nevada Posts: 1,299 Rep Power: 6	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ This is pretty simple to respond to- FPSSJ. Trunks had no comprehension of the power that Goku had when he converted the transformation effort into a power bonus, and this is after what is established to be post Super-Super Saiyan for him. All he could sense at first was a power way below his own. That he was amazed at Goku's power just at half says something, and then he's blown away by the sheer power of both combatants even after his RoSaT training says even more. I'll just go with a chart and leave the responses or rebuttals (if any) for later. Bit tied for time at the moment. Full power SSS Trunks > Cell (suppressed) Half power MSS Goku < Cell (Korin's estimation) Warming-up MSS Goku = Warming-up Cell Full power MSS Goku < Powered-up Cell Full power MSS Goku > Full power SSS Trunks If anyone has any proof otherwise, blast away.

07-15-2006	#13 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ Ah, I see what angle you are taking....well that can be explained......they sudden upburst in power was a shock....though that is jujst a theory...everything I have previously stated is not.....can you please try & contradict what I have said? Because I have no clue what angle LSSJ7 is taking. __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

07-15-2006	#15 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ Ah, I see the angle you are taking now, you're saying that when the fight began Goku was only fighting at 50% & later on whe him & Cell both power up, Goku takes it to max while Cell brings is higher aswell. OK, well first of all, Cell's original statement of Trunks superiority shouldn't have been reffering to the current PL of him & rather him as a whole.....just think for a second, if Cell was physically stronger than Trunks at FP or hell not even at FP, he would have no reason to say that Trunks had surpassed him...let alone adding in the "wide margin" line....someone with enough physical power to overpower Trunks esspecially someone of Cell's personality would not simply throw out that line. Next...when Korin made his comparison, he would not copmpare 50% FPSSJ Goku & say "you're still at a slight disadvantage", that's silly to say "the way things stand now, you're at a slight disadvantage to Cell at 50%, therefore you will lose", what kind of logic is that? Korin's comparison was doubling the ki that he felt from Goku & comparing it to Cell's.......as for Goku & Cell's opening, Goku was probably fighting at a much higher PL than 50%, maybe more like 75%...Goku doesn't acctually need to power up to obtain power in the FPSSJ state, remember, it's his natural state, it doesn;t take activation energy, his powering up state for Korin was a slow & steady process made so Korin could get a good feel for his ki, I mean normally it wouldn't take that long to go only 50%....as for his power up against Cell, that was common Full Power Power Up. __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks