Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ - Page 4

The Chibi Kiriyama · 09-18-2006

[quote user="Gozar"]Because Goku's power does surpass them all in the SSJ or ASSJ state, he is clearly the most supwerior fighter & just taking a look at his power (with no speed loss) is reason for great confidence in him.[/quote]
...There's never a time that I can remember where the chi of anyone surprised another to the point of being on a whole other plane and didn't mean that the character was superior in every way. Trunks was amazed by the chi Goku let off at only half power without even knowing he was using a fraction of his true potential, and this is the same Trunks who thought initially that the only way to grow stronger was through an additional transformation. No one was directly viewing Goku when he went to half power either, so thinking it was because he was evading a speed loss is anti-productive considering there was no example of said speed loss or even a speed gain from their vantage point.

Gozar · 09-18-2006

The surprise from Trunks can easily be explained by the faxct the the burst of power came so quick rather than a long & steady power up from ASSJ or USSJ as we already saw. Also Trunks facial reactions are not as "shock" worthy as you've already said. It was one of those *wak* reactions, just a surprise that made him want to feel the power. Also if you watch Goku's 100% Power up, Trunks doesn't look as shocked as Vegeta, Vegeta is all like "Holy shniz" while Trunks is more or less just looking on. Also, Krillin was trembling from Trunks USSJ power up, he didn't seem as freaked out from Goku's....just happy. Every reactions Trunks got was just serious awe & amazement because they knew he was more powerful than Cell.....Goku's power up's did not produce as much shock & they were more just amazed at his shere power in a non-bulked state.

**LegendarySSJ7** · 09-19-2006

[quote user="Gozar"]he didn't seem as freaked out from Goku's....just happy.[/quote]

(Volume 18, Page 28) Kuririn: "H-his Chi is immeasurable...! He's b-beyond all of us!"

^ Yes, this (select quote) goes to show that the MSSj Goku at full power is a length of distance away from SSj Type 3 Mirai Trunks (pre-2nd RoSaT).

[:|]

It's all so odd. Bemusing. I don't know whether to chalk it up to "happy" or "shocked". Please go into vast length in regards to said guaging (alluding to SSj Type 3 Trunks, pre-2nd RoSaT >>>>> MSSj Goku at full power).

Broly · 09-19-2006

I think Krillen is both happy and shocked at Goku's power.

Gozar · 09-19-2006

[quote user="LegendarySSj7"] [quote user="Gozar"]he didn't seem as freaked out from Goku's....just happy.[/quote]
(Volume 18, Page 28) Kuririn: "H-his Chi is immeasurable...! He's b-beyond all of us!"
^ Yes, this (select quote) goes to show that the MSSj Goku at full power is a length of distance away from SSj Type 3 Mirai Trunks (pre-2nd RoSaT).
[:|]
It's all so odd. Bemusing. I don't know whether to chalk it up to "happy" or "shocked". Please go into vast length in regards to said guaging (alluding to SSj Type 3 Trunks, pre-2nd RoSaT >>>>> MSSj Goku at full power).
[/quote]
His facial expression though is pure joy...while with Trunks it is like fear. That is what I am getting at.

Broly · 09-19-2006

Dude, people, its totally obvious that Mastered Super Saiyan is a stronger level than the Second and Third Stage of Super Saiyan. In the manga, Cell states and tells Goku these exact words: "Vegeta and Trunks may have improved, but they're nothing like you." There you have it, strait from the manga! Cell's statement proves that Mastered Super Saiyan is a stronger level than Third Grade Super Saiyan.

Gozar · 09-19-2006

Because FPSSJ is the best form to fight in, Trunks would be no match due to speed loss. However Cell was at first very very impressed with Trunks power, shocked when he powered up.

Gangsta SabZ · 09-19-2006

If USSJ was so strong, why didn't Trunks just use that form to form an incredibly strong attack during the Cell games and kill Cell? Cell would have been busy sending his kamehameha towards Gohan. I'm sure if USSJ is anything like you expect, the attack would do damage. Vegeta's attack did.
Obviously USSJ isn't stronger than FPSSJ. Goku's attack would have harmed Cell during the final attacks.

mackBlasta · 09-19-2006

First of all, Cell was never the least bit worried about Trunks. The
facial expression you claim as fear was merely shock at the fact that
little ol Trunks was as strong as he was. He had a similar expression
on his face when Gohan first powered up.
Second, if Trunks
was stronger than Goku, Cell would've said something more along the
lines of "Trunks and Vegeta are nothing compared to me" or "they don't stand a chance against me."Cell stating that Trunks and Vegeta are nothingcompared to Goku is an undeniable implication that, after fighting all
three of them at their maximums, Goku outclasses them in all aspects:
speed, fighting skill, and yes strength.

Oh yeah, one more thing. The whole "people don't take Ussj into
consideration when talking about Fpssj because of the loss of speed"
argument is extremely faulty. May I remind you that Kuririn, who is the
one who said Goku is "beyond all of us" was never present during the
real portion of Trunks' fight with Cell. Kuririn only sensed Trunk's
power and had no idea about the loss of speed, so according to him,
Goku>Trunks.

Gozar · 09-20-2006

Um, Blackmasta, Krillin was informed pf the speed loss later on. In addition, Krillin was shocked that Trunks could not win, infact he was able to sense Trunks hidden power & compare ot to Cell's hidden power.

Vegeta-the most powerful sayajin · 09-20-2006

FPSSJ Is stronger and I have proof. Way back in the begining of DBZ Raditz fought Goku and Piccolo. He was about 3 times as strong as them yet he was able to withstand punches and kicks from them without even budging. If Trunks was anywhere near FPSSJ Perfect Cell, which was several times stronger than base Cell, Perfect Cell in his base wouldn't be able to harm USSJ Trunks regardless of how much faster he was.

**LegendarySSJ7** · 09-20-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegeta-the most powerful sayajin

Perfect Cell in his base wouldn't be able to harm USSJ Trunks regardless of how much faster he was.

....the most suppressed Complete Cell hinted at here openly admitted in Volume 17 that he was no place near SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks at full power, (though far outstripping that but not even nearly around the amount of power as his powered up state - still enough to flagellate Trunk's hopes of ever winning [which said speed loss put a wrench in, by far]). He was the stronger of the two by a stretch. More like my own findings and my interpretation, a sizeable gap between them, proof enough that SSj 3 Type Trunks (full power) is the stronger of the two by a large amount (but hence my inference; not that large). I imagine Trunks would take a hit from him without much boisterous fanfare, holding his own rather well. But through repeated usage of speed, anyone can come to a consensus on the matter that from Cell's vantage point SSj Type 3 Trunks wouldn't win (and then some - Cell would win at miles at a step without Trunks even knowing Cell was only using a fraction of his true power, follows the same skeleton of meticulous footing of power as a whole as the Freeza Saga Arc... not stemming from slight hubris, either).

Though whole arguments have been started over one qualm too many for the public, very down the middle, so not to do the such in posting, or/and in/on the oddity (or offering oddities) that is this topic of discussion.

Point of the matter - Stronger: "USSJ" or "FPSSJ"? "FPSSJ". By leaps and bounds. And that alone speaks bounds, in my eyes.

Gangsta SabZ · 09-20-2006

May I also remind you about when Goku powered up just as he got out of the RoSaT, and Trunks was amazed at the power. Also, Trunks had no idea what Goku looked like when powering up, so the suprise shows that the power was greater than his own.
After the powering up, and Trunks still not knowing what state Goku powered up in, they all started talking about how Goku can beat Cell.
^ That and everything Blackmasta said.

Buutenks · 09-20-2006

[quote user="Vegeta-the most powerful sayajin"]FPSSJ Is stronger and I have proof. Way back in the begining of DBZ Raditz fought Goku and Piccolo. He was about 3 times as strong as them yet he was able to withstand punches and kicks from them without even budging. If Trunks was anywhere near FPSSJ Perfect Cell, which was several times stronger than base Cell, Perfect Cell in his base wouldn't be able to harm USSJ Trunks regardless of how much faster he was.
[/quote]

Actually in the manga the never hit him ,he blocked every punch and kick.Krillin Could hurt Nappa and he had a power level of 1080 or maybe 1,500 if he was hidding his full power.Freeza using 70% of his power could hurt ssj Goku with his punches and ssj Goku was about 30 times stronger than him.

Modor · 09-20-2006

[quote user="Buutenks"][quote user="Vegeta-the most powerful sayajin"]FPSSJ Is stronger and I have proof. Way back in the begining of DBZ Raditz fought Goku and Piccolo. He was about 3 times as strong as them yet he was able to withstand punches and kicks from them without even budging. If Trunks was anywhere near FPSSJ Perfect Cell, which was several times stronger than base Cell, Perfect Cell in his base wouldn't be able to harm USSJ Trunks regardless of how much faster he was.
[/quote]

Actually in the manga the never hit him ,he blocked every punch and kick.Krillin Could hurt Nappa and he had a power level of 1080 or maybe 1,500 if he was hidding his full power.Freeza using 70% of his power could hurt ssj Goku with his punches and ssj Goku was about 30 times stronger than him.
[/quote]Say what?! SSJ Goku 30 times stronger than 70% Frieza? SSJ Goku was about equal to 100% Frieza, so please explain to me how that's possible?
And Krillin was only able to hurt Nappa because Nappa didn't expect his attack. It's kind of like trying to tickle yourself; you can only be tickled if your mind doesn't fully expect it. It's roughly the same principle here: If a person has sufficient power (about a 1.67x difference, by my estimations), he can only be hurt if he doesn't expect a weaker person's attack.

09-18-2006	#46 (permalink)
The Chibi Kiriyama (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Henderson, Nevada Posts: 1,299 Rep Power: 6	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ [quote user="Gozar"]Because Goku's power does surpass them all in the SSJ or ASSJ state, he is clearly the most supwerior fighter & just taking a look at his power (with no speed loss) is reason for great confidence in him.[/quote] ...There's never a time that I can remember where the chi of anyone surprised another to the point of being on a whole other plane and didn't mean that the character was superior in every way. Trunks was amazed by the chi Goku let off at only half power without even knowing he was using a fraction of his true potential, and this is the same Trunks who thought initially that the only way to grow stronger was through an additional transformation. No one was directly viewing Goku when he went to half power either, so thinking it was because he was evading a speed loss is anti-productive considering there was no example of said speed loss or even a speed gain from their vantage point.

09-18-2006	#47 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ The surprise from Trunks can easily be explained by the faxct the the burst of power came so quick rather than a long & steady power up from ASSJ or USSJ as we already saw. Also Trunks facial reactions are not as "shock" worthy as you've already said. It was one of those wak reactions, just a surprise that made him want to feel the power. Also if you watch Goku's 100% Power up, Trunks doesn't look as shocked as Vegeta, Vegeta is all like "Holy shniz" while Trunks is more or less just looking on. Also, Krillin was trembling from Trunks USSJ power up, he didn't seem as freaked out from Goku's....just happy. Every reactions Trunks got was just serious awe & amazement because they knew he was more powerful than Cell.....Goku's power up's did not produce as much shock & they were more just amazed at his shere power in a non-bulked state. __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

09-19-2006	#48 (permalink)
LegendarySSJ7 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: LA, CA, USA. Posts: 2,736 Rep Power: 48	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ [quote user="Gozar"]he didn't seem as freaked out from Goku's....just happy.[/quote] (Volume 18, Page 28) Kuririn: "H-his Chi is immeasurable...! He's b-beyond all of us!" ^ Yes, this (select quote) goes to show that the MSSj Goku at full power is a length of distance away from SSj Type 3 Mirai Trunks (pre-2nd RoSaT). [:\|] It's all so odd. Bemusing. I don't know whether to chalk it up to "happy" or "shocked". Please go into vast length in regards to said guaging (alluding to SSj Type 3 Trunks, pre-2nd RoSaT >>>>> MSSj Goku at full power). __________________

09-19-2006	#49 (permalink)
Broly The Desolate One Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: You think I give a shit about where you think I stay? Posts: 7,543 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 33	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ I think Krillen is both happy and shocked at Goku's power. __________________ $C:\Users\Silver Platter\Pictures\Broly_SSJ5_by_Gothax.jpg$

09-19-2006	#50 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ [quote user="LegendarySSj7"] [quote user="Gozar"]he didn't seem as freaked out from Goku's....just happy.[/quote] (Volume 18, Page 28) Kuririn: "H-his Chi is immeasurable...! He's b-beyond all of us!" ^ Yes, this (select quote) goes to show that the MSSj Goku at full power is a length of distance away from SSj Type 3 Mirai Trunks (pre-2nd RoSaT). [:\|] It's all so odd. Bemusing. I don't know whether to chalk it up to "happy" or "shocked". Please go into vast length in regards to said guaging (alluding to SSj Type 3 Trunks, pre-2nd RoSaT >>>>> MSSj Goku at full power). [/quote] His facial expression though is pure joy...while with Trunks it is like fear. That is what I am getting at. __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

09-19-2006	#51 (permalink)
Broly The Desolate One Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: You think I give a shit about where you think I stay? Posts: 7,543 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 33	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ Dude, people, its totally obvious that Mastered Super Saiyan is a stronger level than the Second and Third Stage of Super Saiyan. In the manga, Cell states and tells Goku these exact words: "Vegeta and Trunks may have improved, but they're nothing like you." There you have it, strait from the manga! Cell's statement proves that Mastered Super Saiyan is a stronger level than Third Grade Super Saiyan. __________________ $C:\Users\Silver Platter\Pictures\Broly_SSJ5_by_Gothax.jpg$

09-19-2006	#52 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ Because FPSSJ is the best form to fight in, Trunks would be no match due to speed loss. However Cell was at first very very impressed with Trunks power, shocked when he powered up. __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

09-19-2006	#53 (permalink)
Gangsta SabZ (23) Final Warrior Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 2,613 Rep Power: 8	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ If USSJ was so strong, why didn't Trunks just use that form to form an incredibly strong attack during the Cell games and kill Cell? Cell would have been busy sending his kamehameha towards Gohan. I'm sure if USSJ is anything like you expect, the attack would do damage. Vegeta's attack did. Obviously USSJ isn't stronger than FPSSJ. Goku's attack would have harmed Cell during the final attacks.

09-19-2006	#54 (permalink)
mackBlasta Bleach Ranked (26) Vaizard Join Date: May 2004 Location: The Interweb Posts: 5,074 Rep Power: 38	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ First of all, Cell was never the least bit worried about Trunks. The facial expression you claim as fear was merely shock at the fact that little ol Trunks was as strong as he was. He had a similar expression on his face when Gohan first powered up. Second, if Trunks was stronger than Goku, Cell would've said something more along the lines of "Trunks and Vegeta are nothing compared to me" or "they don't stand a chance against me."Cell stating that Trunks and Vegeta are nothingcompared to Goku is an undeniable implication that, after fighting all three of them at their maximums, Goku outclasses them in all aspects: speed, fighting skill, and yes strength. Oh yeah, one more thing. The whole "people don't take Ussj into consideration when talking about Fpssj because of the loss of speed" argument is extremely faulty. May I remind you that Kuririn, who is the one who said Goku is "beyond all of us" was never present during the real portion of Trunks' fight with Cell. Kuririn only sensed Trunk's power and had no idea about the loss of speed, so according to him, Goku>Trunks. __________________

09-20-2006	#55 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ Um, Blackmasta, Krillin was informed pf the speed loss later on. In addition, Krillin was shocked that Trunks could not win, infact he was able to sense Trunks hidden power & compare ot to Cell's hidden power. __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

09-20-2006	#56 (permalink)
Vegeta-the most powerful sayajin (15) Super Namekian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sitting in a secluded room Posts: 421 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ FPSSJ Is stronger and I have proof. Way back in the begining of DBZ Raditz fought Goku and Piccolo. He was about 3 times as strong as them yet he was able to withstand punches and kicks from them without even budging. If Trunks was anywhere near FPSSJ Perfect Cell, which was several times stronger than base Cell, Perfect Cell in his base wouldn't be able to harm USSJ Trunks regardless of how much faster he was. __________________ Current Manga Being Read: Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, YuYu Hakusho ---- Incase you're wondering this is V-TMPS

09-20-2006	#58 (permalink)
Gangsta SabZ (23) Final Warrior Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 2,613 Rep Power: 8	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ May I also remind you about when Goku powered up just as he got out of the RoSaT, and Trunks was amazed at the power. Also, Trunks had no idea what Goku looked like when powering up, so the suprise shows that the power was greater than his own. After the powering up, and Trunks still not knowing what state Goku powered up in, they all started talking about how Goku can beat Cell. ^ That and everything Blackmasta said.

09-20-2006	#59 (permalink)
Buutenks (7) Warrior of Earth Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 67 Rep Power: 3	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ [quote user="Vegeta-the most powerful sayajin"]FPSSJ Is stronger and I have proof. Way back in the begining of DBZ Raditz fought Goku and Piccolo. He was about 3 times as strong as them yet he was able to withstand punches and kicks from them without even budging. If Trunks was anywhere near FPSSJ Perfect Cell, which was several times stronger than base Cell, Perfect Cell in his base wouldn't be able to harm USSJ Trunks regardless of how much faster he was. [/quote] Actually in the manga the never hit him ,he blocked every punch and kick.Krillin Could hurt Nappa and he had a power level of 1080 or maybe 1,500 if he was hidding his full power.Freeza using 70% of his power could hurt ssj Goku with his punches and ssj Goku was about 30 times stronger than him. __________________ Legendary Super Saiya-Jin No one can stand up to Cell....

09-20-2006	#60 (permalink)
Modor (2) Farmer w/Shotgun Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ [quote user="Buutenks"][quote user="Vegeta-the most powerful sayajin"]FPSSJ Is stronger and I have proof. Way back in the begining of DBZ Raditz fought Goku and Piccolo. He was about 3 times as strong as them yet he was able to withstand punches and kicks from them without even budging. If Trunks was anywhere near FPSSJ Perfect Cell, which was several times stronger than base Cell, Perfect Cell in his base wouldn't be able to harm USSJ Trunks regardless of how much faster he was. [/quote] Actually in the manga the never hit him ,he blocked every punch and kick.Krillin Could hurt Nappa and he had a power level of 1080 or maybe 1,500 if he was hidding his full power.Freeza using 70% of his power could hurt ssj Goku with his punches and ssj Goku was about 30 times stronger than him. [/quote]Say what?! SSJ Goku 30 times stronger than 70% Frieza? SSJ Goku was about equal to 100% Frieza, so please explain to me how that's possible? And Krillin was only able to hurt Nappa because Nappa didn't expect his attack. It's kind of like trying to tickle yourself; you can only be tickled if your mind doesn't fully expect it. It's roughly the same principle here: If a person has sufficient power (about a 1.67x difference, by my estimations), he can only be hurt if he doesn't expect a weaker person's attack.