Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ - Page 2

**LegendarySSJ7** · 07-15-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozar

Next...when Korin made his comparison, he would not copmpare 50% FPSSJ Goku & say "you're still at a slight disadvantage", that's silly to say "the way things stand now, you're at a slight disadvantage to Cell at 50%, therefore you will lose",

You're right - Karin was contrasting Goku at 100% and Cell rigidly doubling his power. However, I really don't see how that pertains to the USSJ vs. FPSSJ discussion, and the fact that Complete Cell was using far less than 50% of his power against Vegeta and Mirai Trunks. However, considering it was just a paragon, I see what you mean. Still, there is a plethora of things that easily allude Complete Cell telling Mirai Trunks that he far surpassed the strength he was using against them at that point in time.

1.) The very calm, unrumpled manner he told Mirai Trunks in. And the fact that he portended to destroy him. If Mirai Trunks really surmounted him at full power, even if his speed was so severely impeded by the SSj 3rd Grade Form, Cell, in all likelihood, wouldn't have been so placid about it.

2.) The fact that Cell was transpicuously devoid of the aura he had around him upon powering up against Goku and Gohan.

3.) Cell did not have the stern expression he had on his face upon fighting Goku and Gohan against Vegeta and Mirai Trunks. He was not putting in nigh the effort or amount of power.

Again, even in terms of physical power, if Mirai Trunks was so astounded by Goku and the power of the complete Mastery of the Super Saiya-jin, only if he realized this upon Goku powering up to half of his full power as a Mastered Super Saiyan, him surpassing Cell at full power in terms of solitary power is a bit of a precarious presumption to make.

And as for Goku using 75% of his strength in his warm-up fight... it's definitely a tenable theory, but the fact that the whole Zet Senshi was flabbergasted and amazed to the extent that they were once Goku powered up merits a far greater increase than just 1.333333333333333333333333x. Two fold fits this increase. Plus, the fact that nobody was really surprised by any of their power prior to powering up, tells me that MSSj Goku and Complete Cell weren't truly far above, let alone above SSj 2nd Grade Vegeta and Mirai Trunks post-training for a 2nd time in the RoSaT.

Hmm.

Gozar · 07-15-2006

Ah, so you & I see things in different ways, IMO Korin was comparing 100% Goku to the Cell that fought Trunks & not doubling his power.

1. We relized Tryunks was so slow, at Cells far superior speed beating Trunks would be easy for him.

2. What does that prove?

3. Cell did so when fighting Trunks until he relized Trunks major disadvantage, when Cell first felt Trunks ki, he looked frightened, then he calmed down.

Well, Trunks was astounded at the fact of how Powerful Goku was at SSJ, with no bulking up, wouldn't you be surprised?

Why not? As I've said in past fights a mere 12% difference can make a huge difference in a fight, so if Goku were to increase his power 12%, that should infact be pretty astounding based on prior facts.

ixidor · 08-02-2006

Well, i think you are making a mistake by only take the reactions of trunk . Actually, piccolo, tien and krillin had seen trunks' ussj ki, and every one was really impressed with goku's ki.

I think that:

Perfect Cell post-power up»100% FSSJ Goku»USSJ Trunks»perfect cell»50% FSSJ Goku

And don't forget that everyone else was already impress with 50% FSSJ Goku, so:

50% FSSJ goku»ASSJ Vegeta»ASSJ Trunks»everyone else

Gozar · 08-02-2006

Though the others had sensed Trunks chi, they were not acctualkly in the form, seeing a power as strong as Goku while only in SSJ was a huge shock to them all.

LegendaryBroli · 08-02-2006

I have to Say Full Powered Super Saiyan is much stronger than Ultra Super Saiyan because with Full powered Saiyan status you get the power of an USSJ but your speed also increases, You're not slowed down.

With USSJ you just had strength, not speed. That's why USSJ Vegeta wasn't a match for Cell.

Mechanical · 08-16-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super_17

I have to Say Full Powered Super Saiyan is much stronger than Ultra Super Saiyan because with Full powered Saiyan status you get the power of an USSJ but your speed also increases, You're not slowed down.

With USSJ you just had strength, not speed. That's why USSJ Vegeta wasn't a match for Cell.

You're right about the speed thing, but Gozar said just physical comparison when he started the topic. No speed skills, becasue everybody knows that someone in USSJ sees his speed drastically decreased.

In my opinion, USSJ is just another stge between SSJ and SSJ2, so it is a part of SSJ. Also, it is known that a Sayian in FPSSJ masters this stage completly, so masters all the previous (SSJ, ASSJ and USSJ) stages.

ixidor · 08-18-2006

Yeah, i think you are right, Assj and Ussj are stages from Ssj, so a Mssj would master all of them, surpassing all of them in power and speed.

Lord Saiyan · 09-01-2006

a mastered ssj will easily surpass a ussj.....

Duo · 09-01-2006

[quote user="Gozar"]
Ah, so you & I see things in different ways,
IMO Korin was comparing 100% Goku to the Cell that fought Trunks &
not doubling his power
[/quote]
Sorry, friend, but that opinion would be incorrect. You completely
ignore the fact that, before seeing Goku's power, Karin-sama points out
the fact that Cell has yet to show his true powers, but that he
"has a sense". Karin-sama see's Goku unleash half of his power,
learns that it was only half, then compares it to what he thinks
Cell can truly unleash, which he has not done in the least yet, which
Karin previously acknowledges.

Now I'm getting redundant. See the point?

Gozar · 09-02-2006

[quote user="Duo"] [quote user="Gozar"]
Ah, so you & I see things in different ways, IMO Korin was comparing 100% Goku to the Cell that fought Trunks & not doubling his power
[/quote]
Sorry, friend, but that opinion would be incorrect. You completely ignore the fact that, before seeing Goku's power, Karin-sama points out the fact that Cell has yet to show his true powers, but that he "has a sense". Karin-sama see's Goku unleash half of his power, learns that it was only half, then compares it to what he thinks Cell can truly unleash, which he has not done in the least yet, which Karin previously acknowledges.

Now I'm getting redundant. See the point?

[/quote]
But he also has no clue how powerful he acctually was....esspecially since Cell did state himself that Trunks did surpaass him.....why would he say that?

ultimate sayia-jin 5 · 09-02-2006

[quote user="Gozar"][quote user="Duo"] [quote user="Gozar"]
Ah, so you & I see things in different ways, IMO Korin was comparing 100% Goku to the Cell that fought Trunks & not doubling his power
[/quote]
Sorry, friend, but that opinion would be incorrect. You completely ignore the fact that, before seeing Goku's power, Karin-sama points out the fact that Cell has yet to show his true powers, but that he "has a sense". Karin-sama see's Goku unleash half of his power, learns that it was only half, then compares it to what he thinks Cell can truly unleash, which he has not done in the least yet, which Karin previously acknowledges.

Now I'm getting redundant. See the point?

[/quote]
But he also has no clue how powerful he acctually was....esspecially since Cell did state himself that Trunks did surpaass him.....why would he say that?
[/quote] The direct Quotes were
Goku: Master Karin you've Got a pretty good Idea how strong cell is from watching here right?
Karin: MM-MMM he hasn't shown his true power yet but I have a sense.
Goku: Can you compare us? I'm gonna rev up right now.
This means Karin was comparing Goku to what he thought was his cells full power which would be the level he used while fighting Goku. About the trunks thing if he really was stronger then full power cell, cells hits would not have even phased him given the fact that cell was hughly supressed. Also if he really was stronger then cell his multiplier would probaly have be as large as the one from SSJ to SSJ2 which is clearly not the case, so I belive cell made that stament about his supressed self. To answer the main topic i'm under the impression the MSSJ is the same form as SSJ execpt that there is no energy loss so yes i would say that had Son Goku used USSJ during the cell games he would surpass his MSSJ self in strength however MSSJ Goku does surpass USSJ Trunks in my opinion.

SaiyajinPerfection · 09-02-2006

Gozar, I think you're right. I think Ultimate Super Saiya-jin is stronger. It is even officially considered an incomplete stage of Super Saiyan 2. (Kind of like a Giji Super Saiyan with a Super Saiyan [Giji Super Saiyan is nowhere near as powerful as a Super Saiyan, but it is still a half transformed Super Saiyan, same goes for the USSJ and SSJ2).
At the time he fought Cell, I don't think that Trunks was powered up as far as he could go because he even noticed that he'd powered up so much, and as a result: "nothing was gained", because he hadn't realized that he'd lost speed (strength is useless if you can't catch your opponent: Goku told Gohan this and even stated (while at the power of a USSJ) that he could probably defeat Cell with the power, not the form. When Goku was a FPSSJ, he knew that he wouldn't be able to.
But also you have to realize that Cell is terrified of Trunks' power when he firsts sees it, but then he calms down when he realizes that Trunks can't catch him. Cell had complete mastery over Goku (who actually had speed) and could've finished him at any time.

**LegendarySSJ7** · 09-02-2006

[quote user="demonkingpiccolo"]Gozar, I think you're right. I think Ultimate Super Saiya-jin is stronger. It is even officially considered an incomplete stage of Super Saiyan 2. (Kind of like a Giji Super Saiyan with a Super Saiyan [Giji Super Saiyan is nowhere near as powerful as a Super Saiyan, but it is still a half transformed Super Saiyan, same goes for the USSJ and SSJ2).
[/quote]
'Giji' Super Saiyan practically screams non-canon. The Complete Mastery of Super Saiyan... hence the vociferous reason "complete" is termed here. Super Saiyan 3rd Grade is no place close to Super Saiyan 2, by comparison (though SSj 3rd Grade can be seen as a form, and the complete mastery of SSj can be seen as just that - a mastery, though there are some differences in aura and hair traits - they're minimal).
[quote user="demonkingpiccolo"]At the time he fought Cell, I don't think that Trunks was powered up as far as he could go because he even noticed that he'd powered up so much, and as a result: "nothing was gained", because he hadn't realized that he'd lost speed (strength is useless if you can't catch your opponent: Goku told Gohan this and even stated (while at the power of a USSJ) that he could probably defeat Cell with the power, not the form. When Goku was a FPSSJ, he knew that he wouldn't be able to.
But also you have to realize that Cell is terrified of Trunks' power when he firsts sees it, but then he calms down when he realizes that Trunks can't catch him. Cell had complete mastery over Goku (who actually had speed) and could've finished him at any time.
[/quote]
"What you're about to see now...is my true power!" True power equates to a lion share of one's power, that is yet to be seen? I see:

"So that's his true power..."

"Unbelievable...Goku is just unbelievable..."

"H-his Chi is immeasurable! He's b-beyond all of us!"

I feel said quotes are a tipoff to vindicating the general consensus on the matter of both MSSj Goku at full power and Complete Cell in his powered up state easily trumping SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks at full power by a stretch. That's needed to convey all that. One could factor in "speed".... but, that assumption only goes as far as to be in jocose and ring tremendous irony. Those comments were thrown the reader's way prior to Cell and Goku showcasing their speed.

Even past Gohan going SSj 2, Complete Cell believed he was the superior out of the two at full power. This is proven in that he subsequently goes on to attempt making a damaging assault... I can be in agreeance with the fact that it wasn't very damaging. Yet his greater confidence as he goes on to even have his say with sheer whim when conversing with Trunks days beforehand about the matter is telltale as well that SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks of the time was only a great deal stronger than a very weak (or suppressed) Complete Cell.

...Then again, some feel you don't need the whole full-blast powering-up shebang to show you're at full power, some stick by the notion that he would have had much more power than he displayed, posturing on differing views, validating and then contesting such. But in closing, to recollect, I feel the said reasoning is room enough to make the notion and common sense of SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks being much stronger than a suppressed Complete Cell yet much weaker than the powered up Complete Cell prevalent... also disheveling "USSJ >>>>> FPSSJ" without any more lip, once that's been told.

Gozar · 09-02-2006

[quote user="ultimate sayia-jin 5"][quote user="Gozar"][quote user="Duo"] [quote user="Gozar"]
Ah, so you & I see things in different ways, IMO Korin was comparing 100% Goku to the Cell that fought Trunks & not doubling his power
[/quote]
Sorry, friend, but that opinion would be incorrect. You completely ignore the fact that, before seeing Goku's power, Karin-sama points out the fact that Cell has yet to show his true powers, but that he "has a sense". Karin-sama see's Goku unleash half of his power, learns that it was only half, then compares it to what he thinks Cell can truly unleash, which he has not done in the least yet, which Karin previously acknowledges.

Now I'm getting redundant. See the point?

[/quote]
But he also has no clue how powerful he acctually was....esspecially since Cell did state himself that Trunks did surpaass him.....why would he say that?
[/quote] The direct Quotes were
Goku: Master Karin you've Got a pretty good Idea how strong cell is from watching here right?
Karin: MM-MMM he hasn't shown his true power yet but I have a sense.
Goku: Can you compare us? I'm gonna rev up right now.
This means Karin was comparing Goku to what he thought was his cells full power which would be the level he used while fighting Goku. About the trunks thing if he really was stronger then full power cell, cells hits would not have even phased him given the fact that cell was hughly supressed. Also if he really was stronger then cell his multiplier would probaly have be as large as the one from SSJ to SSJ2 which is clearly not the case, so I belive cell made that stament about his supressed self. To answer the main topic i'm under the impression the MSSJ is the same form as SSJ execpt that there is no energy loss so yes i would say that had Son Goku used USSJ during the cell games he would surpass his MSSJ self in strength however MSSJ Goku does surpass USSJ Trunks in my opinion.

[/quote]
That's been my point, he was comparing Goku to what he thought Cell was going to be or his un-powered up state....either way, Cell states Trunks is better.....I think it was a Toriyama error putting the "chi" quote about Goku in, because it just sounds co mpletely different than Cell flat out saying "Your power surpasses mine by a wide margian.".

ixidor · 09-03-2006

Krillin: -Removed-;, after goku powers up.
And krillin saw ussj trunks power. Mssj>Ussj
(Said primary quotes as translated by VIZ should be found in equally fulgent light; not fanslated quotes. Either post VIZ quotes or don't post Manga quotes at all, please. --LegendarySSj7)

But who said to you i am using fantranslated staff??? I am using original staff, official translated staff. I am not using dranet translations neither viz manga, that is the hardest to get in my country, i am using OFFICIAL manga plus some quotes in japonese.
You know, the advantage to be latin is that you have acces to lots of latin mangas, as french, spanish, italian, etc etc etc... Nas VIZ manga is the Official American Dragon ball manga, but the true, the original one is the japonsese one, all the rest are just translations, and translations alone can't show everything, believe me.
And krillin SAID that goku's power was stronger then everything he ever saw. If you disagree, get the japonese manga and see by yourself.
(The only translation we allow is the VIZ translation, not that I'm trying to enforce English translations here, or denounce anything other than VIZ, but if it is not an official translation then it does not belong here. --LegendarySSj7)

07-15-2006	#17 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ Ah, so you & I see things in different ways, IMO Korin was comparing 100% Goku to the Cell that fought Trunks & not doubling his power. 1. We relized Tryunks was so slow, at Cells far superior speed beating Trunks would be easy for him. 2. What does that prove? 3. Cell did so when fighting Trunks until he relized Trunks major disadvantage, when Cell first felt Trunks ki, he looked frightened, then he calmed down. Well, Trunks was astounded at the fact of how Powerful Goku was at SSJ, with no bulking up, wouldn't you be surprised? Why not? As I've said in past fights a mere 12% difference can make a huge difference in a fight, so if Goku were to increase his power 12%, that should infact be pretty astounding based on prior facts. __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

08-02-2006	#18 (permalink)
ixidor (19) Mastered Super Saiyan Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,158 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ Well, i think you are making a mistake by only take the reactions of trunk . Actually, piccolo, tien and krillin had seen trunks' ussj ki, and every one was really impressed with goku's ki. I think that: Perfect Cell post-power up»100% FSSJ Goku»USSJ Trunks»perfect cell»50% FSSJ Goku And don't forget that everyone else was already impress with 50% FSSJ Goku, so: 50% FSSJ goku»ASSJ Vegeta»ASSJ Trunks»everyone else

08-02-2006	#19 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ Though the others had sensed Trunks chi, they were not acctualkly in the form, seeing a power as strong as Goku while only in SSJ was a huge shock to them all. __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

08-02-2006	#20 (permalink)
LegendaryBroli (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 3,270 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 20	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ I have to Say Full Powered Super Saiyan is much stronger than Ultra Super Saiyan because with Full powered Saiyan status you get the power of an USSJ but your speed also increases, You're not slowed down. With USSJ you just had strength, not speed. That's why USSJ Vegeta wasn't a match for Cell. __________________ row row fight da power!

08-18-2006	#22 (permalink)
ixidor (19) Mastered Super Saiyan Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,158 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ Yeah, i think you are right, Assj and Ussj are stages from Ssj, so a Mssj would master all of them, surpassing all of them in power and speed.

09-01-2006	#23 (permalink)
Lord Saiyan (19) Mastered Super Saiyan Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: India Posts: 1,016 Rep Power: 6	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ a mastered ssj will easily surpass a ussj..... __________________ I AM THE RULER OF ALL SAIYANS!

09-01-2006	#24 (permalink)
Duo (26) Great Elder of Namek Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan Posts: 5,259 Blog Entries: 4 Rep Power: 27	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ [quote user="Gozar"] Ah, so you & I see things in different ways, IMO Korin was comparing 100% Goku to the Cell that fought Trunks & not doubling his power [/quote] Sorry, friend, but that opinion would be incorrect. You completely ignore the fact that, before seeing Goku's power, Karin-sama points out the fact that Cell has yet to show his true powers, but that he "has a sense". Karin-sama see's Goku unleash half of his power, learns that it was only half, then compares it to what he thinks Cell can truly unleash, which he has not done in the least yet, which Karin previously acknowledges. Now I'm getting redundant. See the point? __________________ "Christianity is not about building an absolutely secure little niche in the world where you can live with your perfect little wife and your perfect little children in your beautiful little house where you have no gays or minority groups anywhere near you. Christianity is about learning to love like Jesus loved and Jesus loved the poor and Jesus loved the broken."

09-02-2006	#25 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ [quote user="Duo"] [quote user="Gozar"] Ah, so you & I see things in different ways, IMO Korin was comparing 100% Goku to the Cell that fought Trunks & not doubling his power [/quote] Sorry, friend, but that opinion would be incorrect. You completely ignore the fact that, before seeing Goku's power, Karin-sama points out the fact that Cell has yet to show his true powers, but that he "has a sense". Karin-sama see's Goku unleash half of his power, learns that it was only half, then compares it to what he thinks Cell can truly unleash, which he has not done in the least yet, which Karin previously acknowledges. Now I'm getting redundant. See the point? [/quote] But he also has no clue how powerful he acctually was....esspecially since Cell did state himself that Trunks did surpaass him.....why would he say that? __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

09-02-2006	#26 (permalink)
ultimate sayia-jin 5 (12) Saiyan Prince Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 214 Rep Power: 3	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ [quote user="Gozar"][quote user="Duo"] [quote user="Gozar"] Ah, so you & I see things in different ways, IMO Korin was comparing 100% Goku to the Cell that fought Trunks & not doubling his power [/quote] Sorry, friend, but that opinion would be incorrect. You completely ignore the fact that, before seeing Goku's power, Karin-sama points out the fact that Cell has yet to show his true powers, but that he "has a sense". Karin-sama see's Goku unleash half of his power, learns that it was only half, then compares it to what he thinks Cell can truly unleash, which he has not done in the least yet, which Karin previously acknowledges. Now I'm getting redundant. See the point? [/quote] But he also has no clue how powerful he acctually was....esspecially since Cell did state himself that Trunks did surpaass him.....why would he say that? [/quote] The direct Quotes were Goku: Master Karin you've Got a pretty good Idea how strong cell is from watching here right? Karin: MM-MMM he hasn't shown his true power yet but I have a sense. Goku: Can you compare us? I'm gonna rev up right now. This means Karin was comparing Goku to what he thought was his cells full power which would be the level he used while fighting Goku. About the trunks thing if he really was stronger then full power cell, cells hits would not have even phased him given the fact that cell was hughly supressed. Also if he really was stronger then cell his multiplier would probaly have be as large as the one from SSJ to SSJ2 which is clearly not the case, so I belive cell made that stament about his supressed self. To answer the main topic i'm under the impression the MSSJ is the same form as SSJ execpt that there is no energy loss so yes i would say that had Son Goku used USSJ during the cell games he would surpass his MSSJ self in strength however MSSJ Goku does surpass USSJ Trunks in my opinion.

09-02-2006	#27 (permalink)
SaiyajinPerfection (20) Super Saiyan 2 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Not where you are Posts: 1,453 Blog Entries: 10 Rep Power: 22	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ Gozar, I think you're right. I think Ultimate Super Saiya-jin is stronger. It is even officially considered an incomplete stage of Super Saiyan 2. (Kind of like a Giji Super Saiyan with a Super Saiyan [Giji Super Saiyan is nowhere near as powerful as a Super Saiyan, but it is still a half transformed Super Saiyan, same goes for the USSJ and SSJ2). At the time he fought Cell, I don't think that Trunks was powered up as far as he could go because he even noticed that he'd powered up so much, and as a result: "nothing was gained", because he hadn't realized that he'd lost speed (strength is useless if you can't catch your opponent: Goku told Gohan this and even stated (while at the power of a USSJ) that he could probably defeat Cell with the power, not the form. When Goku was a FPSSJ, he knew that he wouldn't be able to. But also you have to realize that Cell is terrified of Trunks' power when he firsts sees it, but then he calms down when he realizes that Trunks can't catch him. Cell had complete mastery over Goku (who actually had speed) and could've finished him at any time. __________________ Formerly the member demonkingpiccolo "Let's put a SMILE on that face!" REP OWED: Madness, Madness, Madness, Madness, Frieza the Tyrant, Madness, Madness, SSJBulma, Madness, Madness, Madness, The Green Dragon, Madness....and...oh wait, did I mention Madness?

09-02-2006	#28 (permalink)
LegendarySSJ7 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: LA, CA, USA. Posts: 2,736 Rep Power: 48	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ [quote user="demonkingpiccolo"]Gozar, I think you're right. I think Ultimate Super Saiya-jin is stronger. It is even officially considered an incomplete stage of Super Saiyan 2. (Kind of like a Giji Super Saiyan with a Super Saiyan [Giji Super Saiyan is nowhere near as powerful as a Super Saiyan, but it is still a half transformed Super Saiyan, same goes for the USSJ and SSJ2). [/quote] 'Giji' Super Saiyan practically screams non-canon. The Complete Mastery of Super Saiyan... hence the vociferous reason "complete" is termed here. Super Saiyan 3rd Grade is no place close to Super Saiyan 2, by comparison (though SSj 3rd Grade can be seen as a form, and the complete mastery of SSj can be seen as just that - a mastery, though there are some differences in aura and hair traits - they're minimal). [quote user="demonkingpiccolo"]At the time he fought Cell, I don't think that Trunks was powered up as far as he could go because he even noticed that he'd powered up so much, and as a result: "nothing was gained", because he hadn't realized that he'd lost speed (strength is useless if you can't catch your opponent: Goku told Gohan this and even stated (while at the power of a USSJ) that he could probably defeat Cell with the power, not the form. When Goku was a FPSSJ, he knew that he wouldn't be able to. But also you have to realize that Cell is terrified of Trunks' power when he firsts sees it, but then he calms down when he realizes that Trunks can't catch him. Cell had complete mastery over Goku (who actually had speed) and could've finished him at any time. [/quote] "What you're about to see now...is my true power!" True power equates to a lion share of one's power, that is yet to be seen? I see: "So that's his true power..." "Unbelievable...Goku is just unbelievable..." "H-his Chi is immeasurable! He's b-beyond all of us!" I feel said quotes are a tipoff to vindicating the general consensus on the matter of both MSSj Goku at full power and Complete Cell in his powered up state easily trumping SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks at full power by a stretch. That's needed to convey all that. One could factor in "speed".... but, that assumption only goes as far as to be in jocose and ring tremendous irony. Those comments were thrown the reader's way prior to Cell and Goku showcasing their speed. Even past Gohan going SSj 2, Complete Cell believed he was the superior out of the two at full power. This is proven in that he subsequently goes on to attempt making a damaging assault... I can be in agreeance with the fact that it wasn't very damaging. Yet his greater confidence as he goes on to even have his say with sheer whim when conversing with Trunks days beforehand about the matter is telltale as well that SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks of the time was only a great deal stronger than a very weak (or suppressed) Complete Cell. ...Then again, some feel you don't need the whole full-blast powering-up shebang to show you're at full power, some stick by the notion that he would have had much more power than he displayed, posturing on differing views, validating and then contesting such. But in closing, to recollect, I feel the said reasoning is room enough to make the notion and common sense of SSj 3rd Grade Mirai Trunks being much stronger than a suppressed Complete Cell yet much weaker than the powered up Complete Cell prevalent... also disheveling "USSJ >>>>> FPSSJ" without any more lip, once that's been told. __________________

09-02-2006	#29 (permalink)
Gozar (17) Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Posts: 742 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ [quote user="ultimate sayia-jin 5"][quote user="Gozar"][quote user="Duo"] [quote user="Gozar"] Ah, so you & I see things in different ways, IMO Korin was comparing 100% Goku to the Cell that fought Trunks & not doubling his power [/quote] Sorry, friend, but that opinion would be incorrect. You completely ignore the fact that, before seeing Goku's power, Karin-sama points out the fact that Cell has yet to show his true powers, but that he "has a sense". Karin-sama see's Goku unleash half of his power, learns that it was only half, then compares it to what he thinks Cell can truly unleash, which he has not done in the least yet, which Karin previously acknowledges. Now I'm getting redundant. See the point? [/quote] But he also has no clue how powerful he acctually was....esspecially since Cell did state himself that Trunks did surpaass him.....why would he say that? [/quote] The direct Quotes were Goku: Master Karin you've Got a pretty good Idea how strong cell is from watching here right? Karin: MM-MMM he hasn't shown his true power yet but I have a sense. Goku: Can you compare us? I'm gonna rev up right now. This means Karin was comparing Goku to what he thought was his cells full power which would be the level he used while fighting Goku. About the trunks thing if he really was stronger then full power cell, cells hits would not have even phased him given the fact that cell was hughly supressed. Also if he really was stronger then cell his multiplier would probaly have be as large as the one from SSJ to SSJ2 which is clearly not the case, so I belive cell made that stament about his supressed self. To answer the main topic i'm under the impression the MSSJ is the same form as SSJ execpt that there is no energy loss so yes i would say that had Son Goku used USSJ during the cell games he would surpass his MSSJ self in strength however MSSJ Goku does surpass USSJ Trunks in my opinion. [/quote] That's been my point, he was comparing Goku to what he thought Cell was going to be or his un-powered up state....either way, Cell states Trunks is better.....I think it was a Toriyama error putting the "chi" quote about Goku in, because it just sounds co mpletely different than Cell flat out saying "Your power surpasses mine by a wide margian.". __________________ "You hate the fact that your powerless to stop me, that your completly outmatched, well imagine feeling the way you do now all of the time like the people of this planet do. FOOLS, how do you think my Master Gohan felt when you ganged up on him in the rain and he had no way out. Well now it's your turn, I hope you enjoy it."-Trunks

09-03-2006	#30 (permalink)
ixidor (19) Mastered Super Saiyan Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,158 Rep Power: 4	Re: Stronger: USSJ or FPSSJ Krillin: -Removed-;, after goku powers up. And krillin saw ussj trunks power. Mssj>Ussj (Said primary quotes as translated by VIZ should be found in equally fulgent light; not fanslated quotes. Either post VIZ quotes or don't post Manga quotes at all, please. --LegendarySSj7) But who said to you i am using fantranslated staff??? I am using original staff, official translated staff. I am not using dranet translations neither viz manga, that is the hardest to get in my country, i am using OFFICIAL manga plus some quotes in japonese. You know, the advantage to be latin is that you have acces to lots of latin mangas, as french, spanish, italian, etc etc etc... Nas VIZ manga is the Official American Dragon ball manga, but the true, the original one is the japonsese one, all the rest are just translations, and translations alone can't show everything, believe me. And krillin SAID that goku's power was stronger then everything he ever saw. If you disagree, get the japonese manga and see by yourself. (The only translation we allow is the VIZ translation, not that I'm trying to enforce English translations here, or denounce anything other than VIZ, but if it is not an official translation then it does not belong here. --LegendarySSj7)