JAIF

After the devastating results of his transformation against Cell, Gohan was afraid to use SS2 again-except during the Tenkaichi Budokai when it wasn't a great struggle and he could keep his emotion under control. That's why he didn't go SS2 to fight Dabura and Buu. When he was fighting Buu, he may have tried to go SS2, but his fear was still hindering him.
As for Dabura, seeing how he could match Gohan in SS1, I'd say he is just below Perfect Cell (powered-up).
Perfect Cell (supressed)<Gohan SS1 (Buu saga arc)<Gohan SS1 (Cell saga arc)<Dabura<Perfect Cell (powered-up)<Perfect Cell (full power)<<Super Perfect Cell<Gohan SS2 (Buu saga arc)<Gohan SS2 (Cell saga arc)

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GikuHonishimo

[quote user="SuperVegetto3"] After the devastating results of his transformation against Cell, Gohan was afraid to use SS2 again-except during the Tenkaichi Budokai when it wasn't a great struggle and he could keep his emotion under control. That's why he didn't go SS2 to fight Dabura and Buu. When he was fighting Buu, he may have tried to go SS2, but his fear was still hindering him.
As for Dabura, seeing how he could match Gohan in SS1, I'd say he is just below Perfect Cell (powered-up).
Perfect Cell (supressed)<Gohan SS1 (Buu saga arc)<Gohan SS1 (Cell saga arc)<Dabura<Perfect Cell (powered-up)<Perfect Cell (full power)<<Super Perfect Cell<Gohan SS2 (Buu saga arc)<Gohan SS2 (Cell saga arc)
[/quote]
I'm not quite in agreeance with some of that, I believe that Super Perfect Cell was actually stronger than the SSJ2 Gohan of the Buu Saga arc, but weaker than the one in the cell saga arc. It's also in my firm belief that Dabra was a bit stronger than the Perfect Cell powered up that fought SS1 Gohan, only due to the fact that Goku stated Dabra was stronger than he expected, and he obviously saw Cell's level of strength while fighting Gohan increase. Just my two cents on the whole matter.

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- My official DBZ fanfiction.

JAIF

Gohan, however, fought quite well against Dabura in his SS1 state, and he was stated to have weakened by a certain amount during the time between Cell games saga and Babidee saga, while during the Cell games he was struggling to keep up with Cell who wasn't even using full power. So maybe I could say Perfect Cell (power up)<Dabura<Perfect Cell (full power), but only by a marginal amount.
And no, most possibly Super Perfect Cell would fall to Buu saga SS2 Gohan, who was a lot stronger than Cell saga SS2 injured Gohan, who could beat Super Perfect Cell by himself with a little help from his allies and (only) mental assistance from his father.

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LegendarySSJ7

[quote user="SuperVegetto3"]
Gohan, however, fought quite well against Dabura in his SS1 state, and he was stated to have weakened by a certain amount during the time between Cell games saga and Babidee saga, while during the Cell games he was struggling to keep up with Cell who wasn't even using full power. So maybe I could say Perfect Cell (power up)<Dabura<Perfect Cell (full power), but only by a marginal amount.

And no, most possibly Super Perfect Cell would fall to Buu saga SS2 Gohan, who was a lot stronger than Cell saga SS2 injured Gohan, who could beat Super Perfect Cell by himself with a little help from his allies and (only) mental assistance from his father.

[/quote]

....Cell Games Gohan was struggling to keep up with Cell who wasn't even using full power? Well, by his own admittion....

(Volume 34 / 18, Page 112)Complete Cell: "You're a quick little rodent!! Now look at my real speed!"

Yep, "real speed" very lucidly hinting at full speed. Not full power, but not a length away from such.

Now, struggling to keep up with Cell? Well, he drew more ire than amusement as Cell couldn't really do much to him until using his "real speed". And:

(Volume 34 / 18, Page 121) Son Gohan: "But I don't like to fight... like dad does. I don't want to kill anybody...... not even somebody as awful as you."

More of the 'abstaining to fight' mold than of the 'struggling to keep up' mold. I can see the validity behind the former interpretation and how no one person would or wouldn't be of the impression, belief, and train of thought of the such, but.... that he drew blood from a Cell who was using his full speed in one hit (and of his own volition, not to mention at his sheer whim as he was 'abstaining to fight'), Goku's four by comparison to a Cell who was any place below whilst having a lapse into the realm of speed.

And I'm dubious that Boo Saga Arc SSj2 Gohan stood the same in power to SSj2 Complete Cell by comparison. That Vegeta heavily states he greatly declined in power and that SSj2 Complete Cell caused a visceral fountain of blood to spurt from a limited opening residing Gohan's arm through a simple, uncharged chi blast (and then immobilizing one of his arms through the such in short, though on all accounts SSj2 Possessed Vegeta and Goku in their bout messed up the landscape that and were drawing blood from each-other in a relatively laconic length of time, almost as if thunder was rolling across the landscape at view, so it could just be the volume of power in nature). The capacities of SSj2 Complete Cell are significantly higher, and that speaks volumes for itself.

And considering Gohan's aura against Dabra wasn't bolted... that bolts weren't dancing around it, or just not extant. What I surmise from this is that Gohan is accessing SSj1 and not 2, which isn't an uppity decision on his part considering the last time that happened he nigh caused the end of the world and his own father's indirect death through tittuping around and boundless vanity as one of the side effects of having such power in literal amounts. Both him and Dabra were wheezing at the height of the battle, at battle's end, but were fairly close in power, outside of the fact that Dabra had an advantage, it wasn't that much of a noticeable one. To stake said belief, Goku guesses in Volume 38 / 22 that Dabra and Complete Cell are about the same in power. He couldn't mean full power Complete Cell in any sense of the term (who was way, way, way infinitely stronger than even Cell Games SSj Gohan), so I'd term this as powered up Complete Cell, who Cell Game SSj Gohan gave ado.

See where the root truths of this interpretation that many a fellow member has come to grips with is emanating from and coming from, now?

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JAIF

You have strong points, so let me say this:
-Cell wasn't using his full power against Gohan SS1 because when he turned SS2 and Cell said "let me show you my true power" everyone seemed astonished at the amount of power Cell had kept spare, and Vegeta-I think it was him-noted how "not only his power, but his speed has also increased". So he wasn't at either full power nor speed before Gohan turned SS2.
-True that Gohan's power wasn't at its full extent when he was fighting Cell because he didn't want to fight. But when he finally determined that he had to fight and unleashed more of his power, that, along with the certain emotional uprising the crushing of Android 16's head by the malicious Cell, upgraded him a whole new Super Saiyan level. So I doubt that Gohan could go beyond what he already was without transforming.
-Cell's "SS2" multiplier (if it can be named as such) is far from being anyplace near to Gohan's, otherwise Cell would have destroyed Gohan with a single blast, seeing how strong he was before regeneration in comparison to SS1 Gohan. And the fact that Gohan had his arm decapacitated by a single blast says nothing, really-Gohan practically jumped in the way of the blast to protect Vegeta, by my estimations, if the attacker has a power level of about 3/4 or more than yours and you are hit by a direct blast without even slightly guarding yourself, this kind of damage is not only possible, but most likely to occur. And Gohan's power couldn't have dropped to 3/4 in just the period between the two sagas-besides, even if it had decreased by such an amount, since it had already been tapped and laid dormant again, with a relatively small amount of training such as the one Gohan had with his younger brother should have been enough to raise his power up to at least 4/5 (roughly) of SS2 Cell games saga Gohan's power. And a difference of 20% is quite enough for Vegeta to state Gohan's power being "nowhere near" what he was during the Cell games.
-Goku said Dabura's power was around Cell's power. He almost definitely meant pre-regeneration Perfect Cell's full power, otherwise (post regeneration) Gohan wouldn't have stood a chance at SS1 against him. But when Goku said they underestimated him, I believe he was referring more to Dabura's magical powers than his actual power level, which place him above Perfect Cell (pre-regeneration). Now you will argue that this contradicts with my latter point that Gohan SS1 would lose to Perfect Cell full power, and support it with the fact that Gohan weakened over the years. To this I can either say: you're right and I'm wrong, Gohan SS1 would win Perfect Cell by straining himself to the limits of his Super Saiyan form without going Super Saiyan 2, so Gohan SS1 (Buu saga) should be marginably weaker than him and, naturally, Dabura, or either Gohan SS1 (Cell games saga) would lose to Perfect Cell (full power), Goku overestimated Dabura's power level a little bit (since he was the only worthy enemy they had fought during the time lapse between the two sagas), and as such, Gohan SS1 (Buu saga) could keep up with Dabura who was somewhere at Gohan SS1 (Cell games saga) power level, mainly because Dabura hadn't still used his full power, but he would eventually be outmatched if he insisted on not going SS2. I tend to believe the second view.

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LegendarySSJ7

[quote user="SuperVegetto3"]So he wasn't at either full power nor speed before Gohan turned SS2.[/quote]

...There's a tenable reason as to why he furthered the thought of "speed" when he conceded that said speed DID augment as a byproduct of such....



[quote user="SuperVegetto3"]-True that Gohan's power wasn't at its full extent when he was fighting Cell because he didn't want to fight. But when he finally determined that he had to fight and unleashed more of his power, that, along with the certain emotional uprising the crushing of Android 16's head by the malicious Cell, upgraded him a whole new Super Saiyan level. So I doubt that Gohan could go beyond what he already was without transforming.[/quote]

Well, in bout Gohan WAS at what I'd term as full power, outside of the untapped kernel and volume of power that is SSj2 until #16's head exploded in a bloody mess - a fountain of oil and computer chips. As I've said on many an occassion, he just didn't want to fight....



[quote user="SuperVegetto3"]-Cell's "SS2" multiplier (if it can be named as such) is far from being anyplace near to Gohan's, otherwise Cell would have destroyed Gohan with a single blast, seeing how strong he was before regeneration in comparison to SS1 Gohan. And the fact that Gohan had his arm decapacitated by a single blast says nothing, really-Gohan practically jumped in the way of the blast to protect Vegeta, by my estimations, if the attacker has a power level of about 3/4 or more than yours and you are hit by a direct blast without even slightly guarding yourself, this kind of damage is not only possible, but most likely to occur. And Gohan's power couldn't have dropped to 3/4 in just the period between the two sagas-besides, even if it had decreased by such an amount, since it had already been tapped and laid dormant again, with a relatively small amount of training such as the one Gohan had with his younger brother should have been enough to raise his power up to at least 4/5 (roughly) of SS2 Cell games saga Gohan's power. And a difference of 20% is quite enough for Vegeta to state Gohan's power being "nowhere near" what he was during the Cell games.[/quote]

Then that morbid shower of blood from Gohan's disabled arm... yeah. Neither would have existed. No, the SSj2 multiplier in question was around there or stood the same in power.

[quote user="SuperVegetto3"]-Goku said Dabura's power was around Cell's power. He almost definitely meant pre-regeneration Perfect Cell's full power, otherwise (post regeneration) Gohan wouldn't have stood a chance at SS1 against him. But when Goku said they underestimated him, I believe he was referring more to Dabura's magical powers than his actual power level, which place him above Perfect Cell (pre-regeneration). Now you will argue that this contradicts with my latter point that Gohan SS1 would lose to Perfect Cell full power, and support it with the fact that Gohan weakened over the years. To this I can either say: you're right and I'm wrong, Gohan SS1 would win Perfect Cell by straining himself to the limits of his Super Saiyan form without going Super Saiyan 2, so Gohan SS1 (Buu saga) should be marginably weaker than him and, naturally, Dabura, or either Gohan SS1 (Cell games saga) would lose to Perfect Cell (full power), Goku overestimated Dabura's power level a little bit (since he was the only worthy enemy they had fought during the time lapse between the two sagas), and as such, Gohan SS1 (Buu saga) could keep up with Dabura who was somewhere at Gohan SS1 (Cell games saga) power level, mainly because Dabura hadn't still used his full power, but he would eventually be outmatched if he insisted on not going SS2. I tend to believe the second view.[/quote]

No he didn't. Keywords - wheezing at the height of their battle. At battle's end. Dabra would be no place near to wheezing if he was around Complete Cell's pre-SSj2 full power (let alone that Gohan managed to land a kick, and not by happenstance or said occassion). Snoring? Perhaps. But not unblithe wheezing.

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SS2 Vegeto

I will also argue that Cell's SSJ2 multiplier was nowhere near Gohan's. It's a mathematical impossibility.

His complete full power was a length away from Gohan's in his Super Saiya-jin form. That alone basically makes it entirely conclusive that his power up could not have been the same kind of increase as Gohan's.

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Presto88

I cant believe that in this topic everyone has overlooked the fact that babidi and dabura have an exact figure on the ki level of ssj goku and yet no mention is made of that level being a problem for dabura at all given.The fact that babidi knew the killi level of yarkon leads me to beleive me he knows the levels of all his subordinates dabura included yet he mentioned nothing of that level being a threat to dabura.Dabura himself seems completely unfazed by this level and is still willing to fight not only goku but gohan and vegeta and from what dabura displayed in the time we saw him he would not be the type of villain to just jump into a fight he has no chance of winning.

Zer0

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ANB

One interesting question that may tip the scales of the debate is whether or not Buu finished Dabra before or after the former's power up (And

we all know he was beyond the level of SSJ2 Gokuu after the power-up).

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Axle Starr

I think Dabura would be around Perfect Cell's PL due to the pretty even matchup Dabura had with what I believe was a Super Saiyan Gohan (not SSJ2)

SS2 gogeta is #1

stated by goku that,

dabra = perfect cell < super perfect cell = filler dabra

because super perfect cell only appeared on the last of cell arc.

in the canon-manga there was no power-up thing for dabra,its a filler.

Zer0

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Evil Vegeta

I would probably place Dabra's battle power around that of Perfect Cell's {after unleashing power in front of Gohan} eventhough he proved to be very underwhelming in his fight with a weak Gohan. I still don't know how his power can be that high, but he probably couldn't be much less then that.

There is no way he can be compared to Perfect Cell {after explosion} because Goku never had the oppurtunity to feel his chi after he made his way back to earth to fight Gohan. I do think it's safe to say that Cell would be the more superior one in comparison with Dabra.

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Thanks to Sphinx's badass skills. Yay.

Quote:

I'm the boss, Applesauce! Judge Judy

Broly

Dabura is about equal to the "MSSj" Perfect Cell. [the Cell Goku fought in the "Cell Game"]

Dabura cannot be equal to Full Power Perfect Cell because of the fact that MSSj Gohan [Buu Arc] is weaker than the MSSj Gohan [Cell Arc]. You know what I'm saying?

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