Kid_Goku

Excluding that time, when else is this shown?

I know for sure that Tien could not take as many hits from Super as Chou Gohan or SSj3 Goku. This is simply because they're more powerful.

Nine times out of ten, it's going to be the more powerful fighter that is able to take more blows from a stronger opponent.

I ignored it because I didn't know what you were talking about (seeing as how I haven't seen Movie 4 in the longest time).

Still, even if I accept this point, LSSj Broli is implied to be stronger than before in Movie 10. Yet he is beaten by 2 MSSjs (and debateably Goku). So how is he anywhere near Cell? Cell at full power would not be beaten by MSSj Gohan and Goten. So how is it that in Movie 8, he has comparable power to Cell's lol? It doesn't wash (and neither does the SSj2 argument in case you feel like bringing it up).

But all the time he was wearing the uniform during that time, he was:

1) In SSj form (which you're disregarding anyway)
2) He had a cape on

Unless you're going to tell me now that he doesn't have to be wearing his cape all the time, it's an invalid point.

And Krillin was shown as if he was going to play a more influential role in the film than he did. Yet he didn't even fight lol.

In the Movie 13 trailer, I see Gohan as he was before he even had his latent power unlocked. I saw no sign of Chou Gohan. Going by your logic, that is believing what we see in an advertisement, Gohan is a regular SSj in Movie 13.

In the Movie 10 trailer, I see Gohan as a regular SSj. So I guess he's only a regular SSj in Movie 10, and not a SSj2 like some believe.

See how stupid this is? An advertisement tells you nothing. What you see in advertisement =/= what you'll see in the movie. The movie is made before the advertisments. They are just there (in some cases) to give a rough idea of what's going to happen in the movie. In the case of Movie 13, it told me that Goku would appear as as SSj3. It didn't tell me that Gohan was going to be "Chou" in that film. Movie 8 tells me that Goku and Gohan are SSjs. It doesn't tell me whether this is post-RoSaT or not.

Nope. They showed that Gohan was going to be SSj, yes. How else are they going to do this without showing him in MSSj form? Of course they're going to show him like that. Again, considering they are releasing the movie around that time, it would be sensible to use scenes/clips from around that time. And you're acting as if the movie was made at the same time as the advertisements lol. I extremely doubt that they were made on the same day, so who knows from when the movie was in production? You're taking this advertisement far too seriously. I've already shown that advertisements don't really say much about a character (some do obviously, but these movie trailers clearly don't).


The point is, if he thought he was strong enough at first, Goku wouldn't have been hesitant with him and told him to leave.

Like you said, Broli was going to go after Gohan in any case. There's not much point in trying to tell Gohan to leave when Broli is just going to target him. Also, with Piccolo and Vegeta now there, it's possible that someone like Gohan could've been of some help. Or you could even revert back to the old saying, "A desperate man takes desperate measures". In the end, he obviously felt he needed Gohan. His behaviour in Movie 8 has not convinced me in any shape or form, that Gohan was a MSSj.

Evil Vegeta

Shin was directly attacked by Majin Buu and stil somehow countered back, while Gohan was out in one hit. Shin wasn't all that strong, but he could take more resistance then Gohan could. Is he stronger then Gohan? This is before Majin Buu does his fireball attack by the way.



That's really a flawed point. Dabura is stated to be equal to Cell, yet he struggles with a weakened MSSJ, how is that possible for someone stated to be around Cell's level of power? Even if Goku compared him to suppressed Cell, MSSJ Kid Gohan could do nothin but kick him one time before being blitzed repeatedly. Cell couldn't even take a direct hit from a Kame beam without shattering into pieces, while Broly could, and actually laugh about it. I don't need to being up the SSJ2 argument; just explain how Gohan stated to have "powered-up considerably" since his last bout with Broly when he's weakening around this time, and even if your SSJ point has merit, he's going to boast when he's clearly much weaker then he should be?



Actually, Gohan didn't even have on the uniform or the cape while they were waiting for the Cell Games to approach, so he could've easily just opted not to wear it. Look, the point isn't that Goku & Gohan went to battle Broly after they left the lookout, lol, clearly not the point at all. I'm just telling you that he didn't have it on all the time, or needed to, and you've disregarded the reasoning for why they don't have to be SSJ, so I'll just leave those points out of this.



Actually, that Gohan was from the theme song, not any portion of any saga at all. Goten & Trunks weren't even shown in their Gotenks form, and only showed their SSJ forms. My logic doesn't imply what you think, really; there were other clips with Gohan meditating in the rosat, or training in SSJ form before they decided to master the form. You mean to tell me they couldn't use those to prove Gohan was a SSJ? They just had to show when they were finished the training, right? Sure they did.

That's not really a famous opinion. Many consider him to be a SSJ only. His dialogue just says otherwise, though.

I already explained about Gohan, and being a MSSJ doesn't require you to be one all the time. The movie was released somewhere when they were battling Cell, so they had a good understanding of how powerful they would be. If they needed to release other clips of SSJ Gohan, it could've been right while they were in the rosat, or while he was training alone to not make it look obvious.


So Goku's sudden change of heart is because Piccolo's there? When Gohan got back into the battle, Vegeta didn't gather his sudden heart to battle yet, so Goku allowed him to battle with the addition of Piccolo, and when going by your notion, he's as strong as Android #17, and weaker then Imperfect Cell by a stretch, but somehow keeps up with all of the SSJ. How is that possible? Cell was in Gohan's range of power, which is why Goku was confident, even though Cell was suppressing the majority of his power, Goku could only go on the power he felt when he battled Cell.

The point is, Goku told Gohan to leave because the situation was a desperate one, and he felt as though Gohan's influence wouldn't matter none. Goku's not going to all of a sudden feel like Piccolo's additional power is going to matter, especially when he's only equal to Android #17 at the most. It even took much more for Piccolo to be finished then it did for Vegeta, who got clotheslined into the plain, and got his face squeezed until he reverted out of USSJ. How can Piccolo even hope to lend a helping hand when he's around Android #17 at the most? He somehow has more endurance then USSJ Vegeta, or Broly's only around Semi Cell's power at the most?

__________________

Jay

Gohan and Goten were not stronger in Super Saiyan than Broli was at Legendary Super Saiyan. It's not that simple

Gohan was a Mastered Super Saiyan, and Goten was a Super Saiyan.

MSSj > SSj.

Goten never mastered SSj, he was natural to it, but that doesn't mean he mastered it. Mastering it would mean he was stronger than a USSj.

AAANYWAY~

Broli was cleary shown to be overpowering Gohan at MSSj, Broli had total dominance over SSj.

He was not killed by Gohan and Goten, he was overpowered by them, there is a big difference. Technically it wasn't them that killed Broly, it was the sun. You need to be right in debates like this, and state what actually happened. Gohan at MSSj and Goten at SSj, with will power from Goku, gave them the oppertunity to overpower Broly.

To overpower someone doesn't mean you are stronger than them.

Just thought I'ld point this out.

CONTINUE THY DEBATE, DRAGONBALLERS ~

__________________
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Kid_Goku

Wow, another long post lol. I'll have to get back to you later (when I feel a bit better to read longer, more thought-provoking posts).

centaurhades

It's really simple Bojack is stronger than Broly (movie 10)

LSSJ Broly is weaker than SSJ2, FPSSJ Goku defeated him with one punch, while Bojack is stronger than ultimate super saiyan Gohan, which required the transformation to SSJ2 to defeat him.

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Broly The LSSJ

Movie 10 Broly could own Bojack since he has the ability to surpass any SSJ2 in the Buu Saga. Gohan needed SSJ2 to beat Bojack but that kind of power was serious overkill. This was displayed when he hardly had to try, just playing with him like he did against 100% Perfect Cell. If he were fighting Broly, Gohan would be forced to use alot more effort before his inevitable defeat. Even the Broly from Movie 8 could've beaten Bojack since he wasn't too far away from the SSJ2 level but only the low powered version such as SSJ2 Adult Gohan. At full power of course, and that much would definately be enough to take out Bojack. Not by miles but still capable and the one from Movie 10 would easily floor him. Further evidence of Broly winning is how he trashed the Super Saiyans and a Super Namek with even more ease than Bojack did. MSSJ Goku fired a Kamehameha that multiplied his power level and Broly took it head on without a scratch on him. I'd love to see Bojack do something like that without taking any damage.

Also, Broly held off 3 SSJ's. One of them being SSJ Goku who by the Buu Saga was right above 100% Perfect Cell. Even with his help, Broly was laughing and having a field day with their triple Kamehameha Wave. I doubt Bojack is capable of holding off that kind of power even if he tried his hardest since he would be nothing above Perfect Cell.

Broly (movie 10) >>>> Broly (movie 8) >> Bojack Transformed

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ImmortalBroly

^^^So true, aslso Broly is immune to all attacks

Jay

Never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever stated at all.

If you carry on like this, I will make your life very difficult.

__________________
"The game, you just lost it."

Broly

There is a fine difference between the ultra states and the LSSj form. You think he is SSj Type 3 because he big, but his pupils disappear entirely, unlike Trunks. His LSSj form is much much bigger and bulkier than the SSj Grade 3 state. And his transformation is totally different. His skin actually rips off his body, as if a shell were cracking, revealing his true form. They are not the same. There are vast differences between the two here.

1. It doesn't really matter. We've seen Goku transform quick, but so does Goten, and Trunks. This doesn't disprove in any way that he was MSSj.

2. Because the movie portrays a time of peace, in which wearing the cape would be pointless for Gohan.

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ImmortalBroly

There is no way for bojack could win. Broly just cannot die as death rejects him, his power grows exptonially every minute, and he is immune to all attacks.

Jay

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Kid_Goku

Him being beaten up more doesn't make him more durable. Gohan only received one shot before he was blown away, and he got up after it. Kaioshin just appeared to be more durable because he got up after a few hits from Buu; who was primarily focused on him at the time.

And you think that MSSj Gohan was fighting with his full effort?

Secondly, Cell didn't have a great advantage over Goku in their fight. Gohan, in the Buu arc, was around MSSj Goku's power to me. And Goku was guessing Dabura's power. Most people take it as fact that Dabura was equal to Cell, missing out the fact that Goku was only estimating what Dabura's power was.

Again, you're following the assumption that Goku was a MSSj.

Another thing is that Cell's body could be easier to pierce than Broli's. That's not hard to understand considering that Piccolo's cells are also inside of it.

I don't see how he was boasting in any way. What I see is Gohan making an observation about Broli's power and pointing out that he'd powered up considerably; as if to say he was confused that he was struggling so much with Broli.

That's not the point. The point is, after we seem him outside of the RoSaT with that uniform, he's sporting a cape also.

Piccolo could opt not to wear his cape, but he does, doesn't he? You could argue that it's to "help" his training, but I see no evidence of the cape and hat still being of any benefit to him in the Cell Arc and beyond.

And my point is that when he did have on his "uniform", he sported the cape. That's what I see everytime, and there's nothing that shows against this.


Also, in no way have I disregarded your reasoning as to why they didn't need to be SSjs all the time. I do however, see that as a weak reason to believe that Goku and Gohan were MSSjs. Again I have to reiterate, if they wanted to show they were indeed MSSjs, all they had to do was make them MSSjs at the start. You can say that there was no reason for them to be all day long, but then equally, there's no reason for them to be MSSjs in the first place. Gohan being a SSj doesn't make it any more likely.

1) All that does is agree with me lol.
2) lol, I don't think you're following me. The release of the movie was sometime during the Cell Games. It makes more sense to use more recent clips. If you're advertising a film, why would you use clips/pics from episodes that happened weeks/months ago when you can just use clips from around the time the Movie is released?

As they should. I don't see his dialogue making the slightest bit of difference to what form he's in. You're just choosing to interpret it that way.

1) Explained above.
2) Why do you assume that just because the movie was released around that time that they had to be MSSjs. You do know that a movie is not released just on the spot? I know that this is a "TV" Movie and all, and judging by the quality of the movie, it doesn't look like Toei put a lot of effort into it, but the release date =/= when the Movie was made. I could understand there being shorter time with movies like #6 and #7, which were released 4 months from each other, but it took 8 months for them to release another movie after that. You're saying that they just decided to make the Movie when the Cell Game was happening? Who knows what could've happened inbetween that time? Toei could've made creative changes due to the release date. E.g. making Gohan a SSj.
3) lol, you think Toei really cares? The objective of the movie is to entertain - not to pose many questions. Also, you're ignoring a lot of other factors that could've affected the Movie, advertisements etc.

lol, no. Scrap that point actually. I'll just follow the saying "A desperate man takes desperate measures."

1) Goku was being tied up by Broli, so he has no time to get Gohan away.
2) Gohan clearly wasn't going to leave, and in any case Broli was just going to go after him, so what could Goku do?
3) Piccolo's appearance does help. Hunting in numbers helps.
4) As you said, they were all so much weaker, so it's not as if Piccolo was really "keeping up".
5) You tell me. Why was SSj/SSj2 Vegeta not dead after the beating he took from Janemba. Remember this is the Janemba that apparently outclassed SSj3 Goku, who is apparently much stronger in anime world; so how is someone as weak as Vegeta still alive? I mean this is no different to Piccolo's situation.
6) I still see no confidence in Goku. Like you, I'm going by Goku's words ( as you're going by Gohan's in Movie 10; except in my case his words cannot be interpreted any other way.) Also it makes no sense that he would try and fight Broli, but tell his son to run. Even if Broli was going after Gohan next, it makes no sense.

All answered above.

And Vegeta gets beaten in all movies he's in pretty easily. Movie 8 is no different. It's a nothing point lol.

I bolded everything wrong in your post.

Broly The LSSJ

^Lol, I could say the same about all the crap you said in here buddy but sadly, you'll never learn.

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Madness