Dabura vs. LSSJ Broly (Movie 8) - Page 7

SRP76 · 05-10-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Vegeta

While I usually agree with you, Vagrant, I have to disagree about that. Goku had to power-up to MSSJ when he was training with 40 tons, against Yakon, and against Vegeta during the Buu saga.

They can still transform into the SSJ form and not have the energy consumption feeling. No one even complains about it, so they can be MSSJ at that point.

Nobody complained every time they transformed before, either. Does that mean Goku was a "mastered" Super Saiyan on Namek?

Evil Vegeta · 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRP76

Nobody complained every time they transformed before, either. Does that mean Goku was a "mastered" Super Saiyan on Namek?

He didn't. But, he complained of it when they were in the rosat, and claimed they would get rid of the effects. Since the Buu saga is after all of this, he's a MSSJ by default.

Vagrant Lustoid 2 · 05-11-2008

Hair means nothing, as far as I'm concerned. Yes, they look a little different, but this is probably because of a shift in how they channel the energy. I feel that MSSJ is a two-part thing, energy wise. The first is that the energy of SSJ, whilst still the same sort, is channeled more efficiently or in a different method, which would explain physical changes (since given that MSSJ is simply SSJ in control, there shouldn't be any difference unless something altering physical aspect is controlled) and would provide a degree of increased power, given that the energy is being fuelled more effectively.

And the second part is that they have a huge amount more of the energy to spare, thanks to not having to transform, which when combined with the more effective control and circulation of energy results in a massive power boost. That's just how I see it anyway.

As a result of this, I see what they use in the Buu saga as sort of a semi-MSSJ. That comes from the power circulation thing and does increase power more than SSJ. However, with all the training most of them did, I figure that the loss of the total MSSJ state was cancelled out by the increases in power.

As I stated before, I believe this because it was stated that part of the choice to move to MSSJ is to remove the loss of energy gained from transforming, and it seems to be heavily implied at the least that this is done by learning how to stay in that form indefinitely. This means that after the initial transformation you can recuperate the energy lost through transformation by resting, sleeping, eating, whatever, and then later on realise that energy through improved ki circulation. Hence why I don't believe you can get the full effects of MSSJ moments after transformation unless you pop a Senzu or something.

**Broly** · 05-11-2008

While it's true that they first needed to retain their SSj states in order to achieve the mastery of Super Saiyan, they do not by any means have to retain that form in order to be MSSjs after which. One who has mastered the Super Saiyan state has minimized the ki-strain on their bodies while a Super Saiyan. So in Movie 8, the absence of their retaining of their Super Saiyan states as their norm doesn't really matter, since they've already mastered the form and have gotten used to the restless feeling of Super Saiyan on their bodies. This goes to show Toei holds no interest in copying thing for thing from the canon into their Movies. But, that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

Broly The LSSJ · 05-11-2008

Its just like in the Buu Saga. Goku was a MSSJ but still transforms later because he mastered it a long time ago. Just because they transformed in Movie 8 doesn't mean they weren't Mastered Super Saiyans either.

Vagrant Lustoid 2 · 05-12-2008

Yeah, I know they could have learnt how to master it already, but it was just the impression I got that they had to stay in the transformed state in order to recuperate energy lost in the transformation and apply it to their own bodies. That was just the way I'd interpreted the whole series of events with MSSJ.

Ames · 05-12-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vagrant Lustoid 2

Yeah, I know they could have learnt how to master it already, but it was just the impression I got that they had to stay in the transformed state in order to recuperate energy lost in the transformation and apply it to their own bodies. That was just the way I'd interpreted the whole series of events with MSSJ.

I do agree with you on the subject of why they weren't MSSJ's in movie 8 because there is no revelance pointing to Goku or Gohan limiting their ki output.

**Broly** · 05-13-2008

It's not about limiting it, it's about using your reserves of power through the form you have mastered by minimizing the strain upon your body caused by it.

deckzone3000 · 05-13-2008

Dabora has movie 8 Broly beat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broly

Broly would walk up to Dabra and smile. Dabra would get pissed and try to spit in his face. Broly would move his head in time to dodge the spit, then grab Dabra's face and squash it. The end.

Broly would dodge some spit? This is the same Broly that walked straight into Goku's Kamehameha. lol

DAEdgE · 05-13-2008

Borly would rock the shit outta of Dabura.

**Broly** · 05-13-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by deckzone3000

Dabora has movie 8 Broly beat.

Broly would dodge some spit? This is the same Broly that walked straight into Goku's Kamehameha. lol

Willingly. He knew it wouldn't do anything. But of course it's very possible that Dabura's spit could catch him off guard.

sub_zero · 05-14-2008

Dabura would win.Dabura is way smarter then Broly so he would find a tactic to beat him.When it comes to power i really dont know who is the stronger one.

Broly The LSSJ · 05-14-2008

The fact of the matter is that either Broly would be more than enough to handle Dabura. Only chance he has is the spit and thats pretty cheap in itself.

Vagrant Lustoid 2 · 05-14-2008

The only reason Broly would dodge Dabra's spit is if he knew in advance. And since they've never fought, he wouldn't. So aside from the fact that I still think Dabra's stronger, he'd spit, Broly wouldn't care, he'd get hit and then be stone. Dabra pushes him over and he breaks. End of story.

Ames · 05-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vagrant Lustoid 2

The only reason Broly would dodge Dabra's spit is if he knew in advance. And since they've never fought, he wouldn't. So aside from the fact that I still think Dabra's stronger, he'd spit, Broly wouldn't care, he'd get hit and then be stone. Dabra pushes him over and he breaks. End of story.

Quoted for truth!!!

05-11-2008	#93 (permalink)
Vagrant Lustoid 2 (13) Great Ape Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 278 Rep Power: 2	Re: Dabura vs. LSSJ Broly (Movie 8) Hair means nothing, as far as I'm concerned. Yes, they look a little different, but this is probably because of a shift in how they channel the energy. I feel that MSSJ is a two-part thing, energy wise. The first is that the energy of SSJ, whilst still the same sort, is channeled more efficiently or in a different method, which would explain physical changes (since given that MSSJ is simply SSJ in control, there shouldn't be any difference unless something altering physical aspect is controlled) and would provide a degree of increased power, given that the energy is being fuelled more effectively. And the second part is that they have a huge amount more of the energy to spare, thanks to not having to transform, which when combined with the more effective control and circulation of energy results in a massive power boost. That's just how I see it anyway. As a result of this, I see what they use in the Buu saga as sort of a semi-MSSJ. That comes from the power circulation thing and does increase power more than SSJ. However, with all the training most of them did, I figure that the loss of the total MSSJ state was cancelled out by the increases in power. As I stated before, I believe this because it was stated that part of the choice to move to MSSJ is to remove the loss of energy gained from transforming, and it seems to be heavily implied at the least that this is done by learning how to stay in that form indefinitely. This means that after the initial transformation you can recuperate the energy lost through transformation by resting, sleeping, eating, whatever, and then later on realise that energy through improved ki circulation. Hence why I don't believe you can get the full effects of MSSJ moments after transformation unless you pop a Senzu or something.

05-11-2008	#94 (permalink)
Broly Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Valley Posts: 7,057 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 14	Re: Dabura vs. LSSJ Broly (Movie 8) While it's true that they first needed to retain their SSj states in order to achieve the mastery of Super Saiyan, they do not by any means have to retain that form in order to be MSSjs after which. One who has mastered the Super Saiyan state has minimized the ki-strain on their bodies while a Super Saiyan. So in Movie 8, the absence of their retaining of their Super Saiyan states as their norm doesn't really matter, since they've already mastered the form and have gotten used to the restless feeling of Super Saiyan on their bodies. This goes to show Toei holds no interest in copying thing for thing from the canon into their Movies. But, that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. __________________ Numeros MFG A single death is a tragedy, but a million deaths is a statistic.

05-11-2008	#95 (permalink)
Broly The LSSJ (13) Great Ape Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 314 Rep Power: 1	Re: Dabura vs. LSSJ Broly (Movie 8) Its just like in the Buu Saga. Goku was a MSSJ but still transforms later because he mastered it a long time ago. Just because they transformed in Movie 8 doesn't mean they weren't Mastered Super Saiyans either. __________________ I Will Teach You The Meaning of Pain!

05-12-2008	#96 (permalink)
Vagrant Lustoid 2 (13) Great Ape Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 278 Rep Power: 2	Re: Dabura vs. LSSJ Broly (Movie 8) Yeah, I know they could have learnt how to master it already, but it was just the impression I got that they had to stay in the transformed state in order to recuperate energy lost in the transformation and apply it to their own bodies. That was just the way I'd interpreted the whole series of events with MSSJ.

05-13-2008	#98 (permalink)
Broly Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Valley Posts: 7,057 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 14	Re: Dabura vs. LSSJ Broly (Movie 8) It's not about limiting it, it's about using your reserves of power through the form you have mastered by minimizing the strain upon your body caused by it. __________________ Numeros MFG A single death is a tragedy, but a million deaths is a statistic.

05-13-2008	#100 (permalink)
DAEdgE (3) Champion of Justice Join Date: May 2008 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	Re: Dabura vs. LSSJ Broly (Movie 8) Borly would rock the shit outta of Dabura.

05-14-2008	#102 (permalink)
sub_zero (6) Disciple of Kami Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 58 Rep Power: 1	Re: Dabura vs. LSSJ Broly (Movie 8) Dabura would win.Dabura is way smarter then Broly so he would find a tactic to beat him.When it comes to power i really dont know who is the stronger one.

05-14-2008	#103 (permalink)
Broly The LSSJ (13) Great Ape Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 314 Rep Power: 1	Re: Dabura vs. LSSJ Broly (Movie 8) The fact of the matter is that either Broly would be more than enough to handle Dabura. Only chance he has is the spit and thats pretty cheap in itself. __________________ I Will Teach You The Meaning of Pain! Last edited by Broly The LSSJ; 05-14-2008 at 03:42 PM.

05-14-2008	#104 (permalink)
Vagrant Lustoid 2 (13) Great Ape Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 278 Rep Power: 2	Re: Dabura vs. LSSJ Broly (Movie 8) The only reason Broly would dodge Dabra's spit is if he knew in advance. And since they've never fought, he wouldn't. So aside from the fact that I still think Dabra's stronger, he'd spit, Broly wouldn't care, he'd get hit and then be stone. Dabra pushes him over and he breaks. End of story.