apocalypse1280

Wow man, you just wasted so much time. All you did was repeat yourself and say absolutely nothing. I really hate repeating myself, but you are wrong. Nothing states it, suggests it or even hints to it. Just because YOU say it, doesn't mean anything, regardless of all the comparisons you try and make. And you know what, thank God you posted that video. You didn't think before you posted that I'm guessing. First off, this is him shouting the move right before he shoots, doesn't look too calm to me:


Second, this is his face while he's shooting the Big Bang Kamehameha:


Not only did he have the "strain" look on his face, he was also grunting while making that face, proving he was using all his power to destroy Shenron. That video proved my point, not yours lol. That was priceless.


As I said before, IT IS STATED Goku took the energy from ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE UNIVERSE. A Stated fact. Why do you keep arguing what you think versus what is stated?..... get a clue man.

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90% of DragonBall fans detest DragonBall GT. If you're one of the 10% of fans who actually like GT, post this in your signature.

A direct quote from Akira Toriyama himself on DragonBall GT: "I enjoyed the show, felt it captured the "Dragonball soul", and was pleased with the conclusion." - Haha, bitches!

stefzed54

SSJ Vegito: 2,100
SSJ4 Goku: 10,000
SSJ2 Vegito: 12,200

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SSJ4 Vegito

SSJ4 Gogeta has nothing to do with this thread he beat Omega Shenron easily, plus if he vaporized him he'd destroy the Dragon Balls. It's quite possible he just wanted to keep him alive with the Dragon Balls (So they could put everything back together) and then kill him. Gogeta wasn't exhausted after releasing the attack so really I don't think it was his Full Power yes he had a strained face but perhaps he was concentrating on not KILLING Omega shenron so that he'd get the Dragon Balls to fix everything. I guess it's possible but of course that's just my opinion.

apocalypse1280

None of what you said is stated, and yes I understand you said it's your opinion. I just don't see the point in contradicting what happened and what was said. If you went by what actually happened and what was actually said, SSJ4 Gogeta had every intention on killing Omega Shenron, with both the first and second blasts. SSJ4 Gogeta wasn't exhausted, but I don't see how someone with his power would be. There's a difference between using your full power, and being pushed to your limits. SSJ4 Gogeta didn't hold anything back. Just like when Omega Shenron hit Goku with his 'Negative Karma Ball', he used his full power, but wasn't exhausted afterwards. Same thing when Baby Vegeta hit Goku with his 'Revenge Death Ball' the first time. Point is it's never stated so there should be no reason to think other wise. And of course the whole not wanting to destroy the dragon balls gimmick is very weak.

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90% of DragonBall fans detest DragonBall GT. If you're one of the 10% of fans who actually like GT, post this in your signature.

A direct quote from Akira Toriyama himself on DragonBall GT: "I enjoyed the show, felt it captured the "Dragonball soul", and was pleased with the conclusion." - Haha, bitches!

Majuub

Who said SSJ4 Gogeta held back? I said he didn't use his full power at all because he didn't need to use it. Saying he used his full power is an enormous contradiction. If he's much stronger than Yi Xing Long and seriously used his full power against him then the dragon should be dead since he can't resist the full power of a being much stronger than him. You perfectly know SSJ4 Gogeta didn't put much effort into that attack, it's your last resort to try and say he did when he clearly didn't. I can post you 100 instances when a character putted his full power into an attack and they were really going all out putting all their energy to kill the ennemy. Gogeta was much stronger than Yi Xing Long and didn't need to do so. As I stated earlier, even if it's Gogeta, if he uses his full power he'll still be out of energy, the same applies to everyone. When base Goku used his full power at the beginning of DBZ he was exhausted, when SSJ3 Goku tries to use his full power he is still exhausted even if their difference in terms of power is bigger than the difference between SSJ4 Goku and SSJ4 Gogeta. Gogeta has just much more power, if he's drained from it he'll just be tired, his power isn't limitless at all. Also no, the video just proves Gogeta didn't use his full power at all. He used two time is full power in barely 2 minutes? You see how much it took from Vegeta to do his final flash, I can also post videos where Goku or Gohan use their full power and Gogeta clearly wasn't. Why would he when he can kill Yi Xing Long with 10% of his power. It was never stated Gogeta was using his full power neither. Why would he even try when he didn't even need to do that. The proof is there, I have comparison, I have videos, I have points to prove why he didn't have to use his full power, I proved why he wasn't using his full power. Now contradict all the facts and you might be on something. It's a fact in the DB universe, when someone is overpowered by the maximum power of someone else stronger the weaker will die. What is Yi Xing Long still doing alive after SSJ4 Gogeta who is miles ahead of him in terms of blasted him with his ''full power''


That's what you said, it just proves my point, he said throughout the universe. It is stated, he never said he took all the energy from all the universe. That just means he'll take Ki from all over the universe which is completely different.

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apocalypse1280

You just blabbered again and said nothing in the process. Stop talking like you're speaking on facts cause you're not. Nothing you say is helping you and that video you posted proved me right. You said he had no "strain" on his face and not only did he have that, but grunted while making the face. So again, you were wrong. So if he didn't hold back, and he didn't use his full power, then what the hell did he do? I'd love to hear this one. What I think you're doing is confusing full power with being pushed to ones limits. When Vegeta does the Final Flash against Cell, first of all he was exhausted and out of breath before he did the Final Flash, but that proves my point even further. Vegeta was severely getting his ass kicked by Cell, he was extremely mad and frustrated, it was basically a life and death struggle. So he was pushed to his limits. It's like when your adrenaline rushes. It's been reported that in accidents, some people have pushed over a car to save someone, and I'm talking about regular everyday people. Now if they were asked to do that again, without being pushed to their limits, they would obviously fail, that doesn't mean their not using their full power to try. Gogeta used his full power, but he wasn't struggling and pushed to his limits. That's why he says, "I'll send you to the Next World with this". And when Shenron survives the Big Bang Kamehameha, all Gogeta says is, "You're a persistent one, huh? With this next blast, you're going to be obliterated for sure." That's it. He didn't say 'I have to put more power into this next one' or 'I should've used all my power with that blast'. Now that I've made it clear that you're talking about being pushed to ones limits versus using full power, let's just leave it at that.


What exactly does that mean??? Because he said "throughout the universe" that means he didn't mean every person throughout the universe? lol, that's idiotic. You left out the next quote after that, which proves you wrong so it doesn't surprise me. After he says what you quoted, he then says, "People of the universe! Share your Genki with me". I seriously don't know why you keep trying on this. You're wrong, let it go.

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90% of DragonBall fans detest DragonBall GT. If you're one of the 10% of fans who actually like GT, post this in your signature.

A direct quote from Akira Toriyama himself on DragonBall GT: "I enjoyed the show, felt it captured the "Dragonball soul", and was pleased with the conclusion." - Haha, bitches!

SSJ4 Vegito

I stand corrected.

Majuub

You are wrong. Even if he grunted a little it doesn't mean he was using anywhere his full power. He had to push the Kamehameha and obviously, Yi Xing Long put up a resistance that's why he grunted a little. That was nowhere his full power. As I stated earlier, if it's Gogeta's full power, why didn't Yi Xing Long die? He can't survive the ''full'' power of someone stronger than him. You don't know what's being pushed to the limits do you? Vegeta putted all his energy into that one attack, he wasn't pushed to his limits. One time we've seen someone being pushed to his limits was the time Goku fought Chibi Buu as an SSJ3. He couldn't even fight no more because he had used to much energy, Chibi Buu forced him and Goku forced his body to do something he wasn't capable of, that's what is being push to our limits. Vegeta just putted his full power into his last attack. Also, you still didn't say why Vegeta killed someone 1,33x weaker than him with ease while SSJ4 Gogeta can't do the same to someone much much weaker?? If Gogeta used his full power Yi Xing Long should have been history and yet you still continue to ignore these simple facts. You just state what you think and your opinion is completely wrong. You didn't say why Gogeta would use his full power, why Yi Xing Long didn't die from his attack, why he could just blast two times his full power in a row without any power loss. Gogeta still falls under the category of beings with a limit, no one in DB can just do two times a full power attack without any signs of Ki loss nor anything. There is absolutely I mean absolutey nothing to prove Gogeta used his full power. There are many instances where we saw characters using their full power and Gogeta didn't do that. You seem to think if Gogeta wasn't holding back he must have used his full power, that's incorrect. To not hold back is to put average effort, to hold back his to put minimum or much less effort than what you can normally do. Gogeta just shouted the name of his attack and pushed it at Yi Xing Long because obviously he wouldn't just let himself get killed without a fight. In your opinion, to grunt means using full power right? To just shout the name of an attack his to use full power right? Your logic is flawed. You still didn't prove Gogeta was using anywhere his full power. You also perfectly know the power gap between them is so big if Gogeta really used his full power, Yi Xing Long couldn't have survived it.



Ok and...?? Can I see your point?? He said people of the universe, so that means everybody in the universe gave their energy at will?? The Genki-Dama takes energy from plants, from instects and from every life form. When Goku did the Genki-Dama on Chibi Buu, he took almost all the energy from the earthlings. Did he do the same in order to kill Yi Xing Long? Did he took all the energy from everyone? Gathering Ki from all over the universe has nothing to do with taking all the Ki from all the universe. It just means people throughout the universe give their energy, in no way does it prove he took everything in the universe. It's like I said, in the universe(even in DB) each moment something is born and something dies. Even if the DB universe isn't infinit its life energy is. Goku just needs enough energy to kill Yi Xing Long. He took what he had to take and blasted him, that's it. I believe the universe wasn't exhausted after ''everyone'' gave their energy, how come if appearntly, everyone gave ''everything''.

You don't even debate, you just state your opinion over and over, you don't even counter my arguments, you just talk and talk without saying anything relevant. Your knowledge of DB must be very limited if you think Gogeta would actually need his full power to kill someone much weaker than him.

It never happened in DB, why would it happen now with no reason? You still didn't say why Kiwi was killed easily by Vegeta at minimum power and why was Yi Xing Long still alive after getting blasted by the full power of Gogeta.
You just keep on ignoring these arguments over and over. You call that idiotic when what you say hardly make sens and isn't believable at all. When you come with solid arguments, maybe we can begin to debate, because now I just state facts with you just ignoring them.

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apocalypse1280

You know I'm being really nice by not calling you mildly retarded. All you do is repeat the same, weak bullshit arguments over and over and over. You're stating your opinion and trying to pass it off as fact like a moron, wtf is that?

I don't give a shit what heppened between Vegeta and Cui. You're talking about 2 weak characters, and one was stronger then the other. That's not even a reasonable comparison to the 2 strongest characters in the DB universe. You talk about me not challenging your weak points? I've shot them down every time. Your stupid "strain" theory was thrown back in your face, and your "Vegeta Final Flash" theory was so easy to break down. Even your extremely stupid first, "stated fact", that SSJ Vegito was said to be the strongest, then SSJ4 Goku. I guess you forgot about Baby Vegeta, and I exposed you with that. You obviously know nothing at all. Being severely beaten and knowing you're going to die, is being pushed to ones limits. Fighting for a long time and getting tired, is just that. Especially when you have people(vegeta/majin buu), who fight in your place to buy you time when that happens. No where near being pushed to anything. You're weak bro, all you have is your opinion versus what actually happened and what was actually said. Goku said, "people of the universe", what does that mean to you? Half the people of the universe? 1/3 of the people of the universe? When all the Kai's were summoned, who rule the entire universe, to help gather power, what does that mean to you? That they only chose 1 or 2 planets? I mean seriously.

It's never stated that Gogeta didn't use his full power, so get over it. Why can't you accept the fact that when Shenron survived the Big Bang Kamehameha, Gogeta said nothing about not using his full power. He said nothing about putting more power into the next blast. Why can't you comprehend that? And you blah blah blah about no one being able to do their attack full power back to back. If I remember correctly, Tien used his strongest attack with all his power against Cell..... like a hundred times. You talk about a limit to Gogeta's power, well no shit. But you don't know his limits, do you? No. And they wouldn't be the same as anyone else, especially much, much weaker characters like you keep referencing. You just make absolutely no sense. You cannot argue what was said and what has happened with YOUR opinions, but you keep doing just that. Keep bringing on the bullshit, I'll keep making you look stupid.

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90% of DragonBall fans detest DragonBall GT. If you're one of the 10% of fans who actually like GT, post this in your signature.

A direct quote from Akira Toriyama himself on DragonBall GT: "I enjoyed the show, felt it captured the "Dragonball soul", and was pleased with the conclusion." - Haha, bitches!

Majuub

Anyone with a right mind can know you're not the one winning this debate since I severly doubt anyone think Gogeta was using his full power.


You don't seem to get it. We call that proportions. Everything works like that. Just like if I say I am 2x stroner than you and we train at the same rythme I'll still be 2x stronger than you. The same applies for Kiwi vs Vegeta and Yi Xing Long vs Gogeta. It works like that, Vegeta showed a character had to be only 1,33x stronger than his opponent to obliterate him completely. You said you shot every of my arguments when in fact you didn't break any of them. 18,000x1,33=24,000 just like 180,000,000,000x1,33=24,000,000,000, it's still the exact same thing only the numbers are higher but the outcome of the fight will still be the same. It doesn't change and there is nothing to suggest it changes.

When Vegeta did his final flash, was it still his full power or not? You're talking like it wasn't his full power and you seem to think using his full power and being pushed to the limits can bring the same results. When Vegeta did that attack, his goal was to anihilate Cell with all he had. Using full power is to give 100%, even if Vegeta was pushed to his limits that was still 100% of his power, you can't use more than 100%. If you say Gogeta used his full power it means he is weaker than Yi Xing Long since 100% Gogeta isn't enough to destroy him, it doesn't really make sens, now does it? The only difference is the fact when you are pushed to the limits you are forced to use your full power, when you use your full power because you wanted and nothing forced you to do so, the results will still be the same. It seems you think when Vegeta was pushed to his limits he was using more than his full power but he wasn't because it's impossible.

Going by your logic it's

Yi Xing Long>100% Gogeta

I never said how many people Goku took energy from, I said he didn't necessarly took all the energy from all the universe. He just said he'll take energy from everywhere not from everyone, that's completely different. You dug your own grave on that one by giving me the statement. Taking energy throughout the universe isn't the same thing as taking energy from all the universe. You say I'm repeating myself when you don't even counter my arguments. The meaning of the sentence isn't like what you think it is.

It's never stated he used his full power neither =/


He never said he used his full power neither, that's irrelevant.

The neo Kikoho is something completely different from normal Ki attacks. It literally takes the life energy from the one who uses it. Just like when Tienshinhan used it on Shin Buu(Gotenks absorbed) it held Shin Buu back, it doesn't mean Tienshinhan was strong enough to put up a fight against Shin Buu. That attack is completely different as it can be effective on opponents much stronger than the one who uses it. We have exemples on Tienshinhan using it on Cell and on Shin Buu. It doesn't mean he was anywhere near these guys.

I don't know Gogeta's limits. I just know his limits are his full power. Everyone's limits are 100%. The same applies to Gogeta, his limits are when he gives everything, when he gives 100%. You don't need to think for long to know that. Unless Gogeta can exceed his own limits without training than his limits are 100% period. It's not like he can use 200% of his power.

I suppose Gogeta can exceed 100% then? If his limits aren't the same as Goku then I suppose he can go beyond 100% because most likely that's Goku's maximum. If Gogeta can go above himself then he is much stronger than what we all thought.

You don't make me look stupid at all. In fact you're the one who looks stupid by saying Gogeta's full power wasn't enough to kill Yi Xing Long. He was toying with him all along and yet he can't kill him with his full power?? That hardly makes any sens and you still didn't even explain why Yi Xing Long didn't die from Gogeta's full power.

I use weaker characters as a basis. I'm not making baseless assumptions while you do, you have no canon basis to prove your opinion at all. I'm referencing to earlier DBZ because nothing suggest the rules in DB have changed during the story. If a character is 18(Power level) and the other is 24, the one at 24 will completely dominate the one at 18. Just like a character at 18,000 got dominated by another character at 24,000.

Now, can you stop insulting me, this debate is getting rather painful.

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