SSJ2 Vegito (Buu Saga) vs. SSJ4 Goku (Surpassed Limits) - Page 3

stefzed54 · 04-27-2008

Okay so I use a 3x multiplier for Kid Goku to SSJ, so I use a 3x10 ?

**Majuub** · 04-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRP76

"Keeping the Super Saiyan 3 form" means nothing. When he was in it, Baby manhandled him with utter ease (before Baby even powered up to his final form). Super Saiyan 3 Goku's attacks didn't hurt him in the least, and Baby slapped him around with impunity.

And Goku "held the form" as long as he wanted to in the second encounter, and Baby stated that Goku was no stronger than he was the first time. He then beat Goku with no effort again.

All this while being in, at best, Super Saiyan 2 from (Vegeta cannot go Super Saiyan 3). Even being a transformation behind Goku, Baby-Vegeta is far more powerful. In the same form, the power gap would be even wider. Goku would have no chance.

I'll have to watch this again as I don't even remember Goku going two time SSJ3 against Bebi. I remember him going 1 time and he got knocked out.

Senzu_Bean · 04-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majuub

I'll have to watch this again as I don't even remember Goku going to time SSJ3 against Bebi. I remember him going 1 time and he got knocked out.

Actually Goku got owned by Bebi two times in his SSj3 form, before and after he got his tail. Though you are right Majuub.

What SRP76 is forgetting is SSj4 Goku is weaker than Oozaru Bebi. He only win because of Gohan and co. chi donation because the power of SSj4 wouldn't be enough.

SRP76 · 04-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senzu_Bean

Actually Goku got owned by Bebi two times in his SSj3 form, before and after he got his tail. Though you are right Majuub.

What SRP76 is forgetting is SSj4 Goku is weaker than Oozaru Bebi. He only win because of Gohan and co. chi donation because the power of SSj4 wouldn't be enough.

That was only after Baby increased his power from getting flooded by Blutz waves from Bulma's machine. Before that point, the fight was a double KO. Dead even.

SSJ4 Vegito · 04-27-2008

Well Senzu bean what I'm trying to say regarding the Golden Oozaru state is that we know that on the Same level Baby will always have the upper hand this is shown when SSJ3 Goku attacks Baby Vegeta (1st form) and can only fight evenly with him.
That means that if both characters go through the exact same transformation then logically Golden Oozaru Bebi-Vegeta would completely own Golden Oozaru Goku. So therefore SSJ4 Goku must be stronger than Golden oozaru. Also I have to disagree with what you said about Golden Oozaru Bebi-Vegeta being stronger, when baby had Goku in between his palms Goku said: "If this is the extent of your power then you still have a ways to go!" and then he breaks Baby's hold and tosses him into a crater. Also after the Double K.O. Goku got up without the Blutz waves whereas Bebi didn't he needed Bulma's help to get back up. So actually SSJ4 Goku>Golden Oozaru Bebi-Vegeta, Gohan and company were just charging him up because, Goku was still worn out while Baby was charged up to full power by Bulma. Although I do agree that SSJ4 Goku (charged by Gohan & co.)>>SSJ4 Goku (Initially). However if SSJ4 Goku (Initial) & Baby had an all-out fight with NO OUTSIDE HELP the whole time then I feel Goku would have won after a close fight since he was able to get up without an additional crutch, unlike Baby.

Senzu_Bean · 04-28-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRP76

That was only after Baby increased his power from getting flooded by Blutz waves from Bulma's machine. Before that point, the fight was a double KO. Dead even.

Old Kaioshin stated that Goku was superior in speed but Oozaru-Bebi had the upper hand in power. That at the start of the fight this before both got knock out at the same time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJ4 Vegito

Well Senzu bean what I'm trying to say regarding the Golden Oozaru state is that we know that on the Same level Baby will always have the upper hand this is shown when SSJ3 Goku attacks Baby Vegeta (1st form) and can only fight evenly with him. That means that if both characters go through the exact same transformation then logically Golden Oozaru Bebi-Vegeta would completely own Golden Oozaru Goku.

Agree with you about this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJ4 Vegito

So therefore SSJ4 Goku must be stronger than Golden oozaru. Also I have to disagree with what you said about Golden Oozaru Bebi-Vegeta being stronger, when baby had Goku in between his palms Goku said: "If this is the extent of your power then you still have a ways to go!" and then he breaks Baby's hold and tosses him into a crater.

But not here! Like in my reply to SRP76 Old Kaioshin stated that Goku was superior in speed but Oozaru-Bebi had the upper hand in power. That at the start of the fight this before both got knock out at the same time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJ4 Vegito

Also after the Double K.O. Goku got up without the Blutz waves whereas Bebi didn't he needed Bulma's help to get back up.

Actually you can see that Goku's tail is absorbing some Blutz Rays as his tail start moving during Bebi "restore".

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJ4 Vegito

So actually SSJ4 Goku>Golden Oozaru Bebi-Vegeta, Gohan and company were just charging him up because, Goku was still worn out while Baby was charged up to full power by Bulma. Although I do agree that SSJ4 Goku (charged by Gohan & co.)>>SSJ4 Goku (Initially). However if SSJ4 Goku (Initial) & Baby had an all-out fight with NO OUTSIDE HELP the whole time then I feel Goku would have won after a close fight since he was able to get up without an additional crutch, unlike Baby.

Goku was only capable of match Oozaru-Bebi dud his Ten Time Kamehameha attack which increases his SSj4 power a lot. Not to mention the Kamehameha waves only start to affect Bebi after a bit he got hit by the waves. Thus the powers are more like this:

SSj4 Goku [post-K.O.] >>> SSj4 Goku [initial] >> Oozaru Bebi [initial] >>> Oozaru Bebi [post-Blutz Rays absorption] >>> SSj4 Goku [post-chi absorption]

SSJ4 Vegito · 04-28-2008

1. Well your 1st point is true, however for me actions speak louder than words. Goku states while Oozaru Bebi is squeezing him: "Well if this is the extent of your power, then you still have a ways to go".
2. Thank you.
3. Like I said in response to your 1st point actions speak louder than words.
4. Okay, your right about that but still Goku didn't get a whole lot of them.
5. Well let's not forget, Baby used his "Fire Death Ball" on Goku and it showed no visible damage. I don't know about the 10x Kamehameha waves but after Baby got up he said something along the lines of Goku tricking him, so really I think that was Goku's plan but hey I haven't seen the episode in a good while so my memory could be a little fuzzy but I definatly remember Goku tricking Baby with the 10x Kamehamehas.

Senzu_Bean · 04-28-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJ4 Vegito

1. Well your 1st point is true, however for me actions speak louder than words. Goku states while Oozaru Bebi is squeezing him: "Well if this is the extent of your power, then you still have a ways to go".

Well that are actually words from Son Goku. The actions shows us that Oozaru Bebi had the upper hand of the battle until Goku's Ten Time Kamehameha waves affected him. Come on! Goku would be dead just like Planet Plant would be destroyed if Bebi would fired that Galick Gun at the planet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJ4 Vegito

4. Okay, your right about that but still Goku didn't get a whole lot of them.

That is the reason why Son Goku was bluffing all the time after that because he was completely out of energy. He didn't even could fire a mere Kamehameha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJ4 Vegito

5. Well let's not forget, Baby used his "Fire Death Ball" on Goku and it showed no visible damage. I don't know about the 10x Kamehameha waves but after Baby got up he said something along the lines of Goku tricking him, so really I think that was Goku's plan but hey I haven't seen the episode in a good while so my memory could be a little fuzzy but I definatly remember Goku tricking Baby with the 10x Kamehamehas.

Bebi was testing his new powers. He wasn't actually try to kill Goku in that moment.

Nope! Goku was amazed how Bebi survived his Kamehameha and he never show signs that was actually his plan.

SSGokuTim · 04-29-2008

It's VERY clear that Golden oozaru Goku is weaker than SSJ4 Goku. First of all, SSJ4 Goku is in complete control of his power, allowing him to use his power to its maximum potential. Second, there's no way golden ape Goku could defeat golden ape Baby. There's potentially a 10x increase of the SSJ form to Golden Oozaru, just like there's a 10x increase of base form for normal oozaru. Then, for Super Saiyan 4, I say either make it SSJ3 x4 or Golden Oozaru x2. It's just not possible to have SSJ4 Goku be weaker or only as strong as Golden Oozaru.

Goku (Base): 680
SSJ3 Goku: 8,160
Baby Vegeta (1): 8,300
Super Baby: 10,500
Super Baby 2: 13,400

Goku (Base w/Tail): 750
SSJ Goku: 1,500 (Base x2)
SSJ2 Goku: 3,000 (SSJ x2)
SSJ3 Goku: 9,000 (SSJ3 x3)
Golden Oozaru Goku: 15,000
SSJ4 Goku: 30,000 to 36,000 (Golden Oozaru x2 or SSJ3 x4)

SSJ4 Vegito · 04-29-2008

Well okay but senzu bean what I was trying to say is that Goku easily broke out of Baby Vegeta's grip on him.Just letting you know that so you don't think I'm retarded or anything (Not saying you said that, I just wanted to clear up what I meant).
However, like I said I haven't seen the episode in awhile so I'll just watch it again when I get the chance.

Senzu_Bean · 04-29-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJ4 Vegito

Well okay but senzu bean what I was trying to say is that Goku easily broke out of Baby Vegeta's grip on him.Just letting you know that so you don't think I'm retarded or anything (Not saying you said that, I just wanted to clear up what I meant).
However, like I said I haven't seen the episode in awhile so I'll just watch it again when I get the chance.

No way! I didn't even thought about that. You indicated pretty strong arguments for your view.

vicdmx · 05-02-2008

Woo this would be a awesome fight to see!

Tough one to but I would say Goku would nick it.

**Majuub** · 05-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicdmx

Woo this would be a awesome fight to see!

Tough one to but I would say Goku would nick it.

SSJ3 Goku in GT wasn't even stronger than SSJ Vegeto in Z. SSJ4 Goku is stronger than Vegeto but the difference between them is the smaller than the difference between SSJ3 and SSJ4. If Vegeto goes SSJ2, then he'll just own Goku.

apocalypse1280 · 05-02-2008

One thing for sure is that SSJ Goku in GT was a little stronger then SSJ3 Goku in Z. So who's to say how strong SSJ3 or SSJ4 Goku really was compared to SSJ Vegito?

apocalypse1280 · 05-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devilz

I think SSJ2 Vegito can beat Omega Shenron.

And why is this?

04-27-2008	#35 (permalink)
SSJ4 Vegito (18) Artificial Human Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 957 Rep Power: 3	Re: SSJ2 Vegito (Buu Saga) vs. SSJ4 Goku (Surpassed Limits) Well Senzu bean what I'm trying to say regarding the Golden Oozaru state is that we know that on the Same level Baby will always have the upper hand this is shown when SSJ3 Goku attacks Baby Vegeta (1st form) and can only fight evenly with him. That means that if both characters go through the exact same transformation then logically Golden Oozaru Bebi-Vegeta would completely own Golden Oozaru Goku. So therefore SSJ4 Goku must be stronger than Golden oozaru. Also I have to disagree with what you said about Golden Oozaru Bebi-Vegeta being stronger, when baby had Goku in between his palms Goku said: "If this is the extent of your power then you still have a ways to go!" and then he breaks Baby's hold and tosses him into a crater. Also after the Double K.O. Goku got up without the Blutz waves whereas Bebi didn't he needed Bulma's help to get back up. So actually SSJ4 Goku>Golden Oozaru Bebi-Vegeta, Gohan and company were just charging him up because, Goku was still worn out while Baby was charged up to full power by Bulma. Although I do agree that SSJ4 Goku (charged by Gohan & co.)>>SSJ4 Goku (Initially). However if SSJ4 Goku (Initial) & Baby had an all-out fight with NO OUTSIDE HELP the whole time then I feel Goku would have won after a close fight since he was able to get up without an additional crutch, unlike Baby.

04-28-2008	#37 (permalink)
SSJ4 Vegito (18) Artificial Human Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 957 Rep Power: 3	Re: SSJ2 Vegito (Buu Saga) vs. SSJ4 Goku (Surpassed Limits) 1. Well your 1st point is true, however for me actions speak louder than words. Goku states while Oozaru Bebi is squeezing him: "Well if this is the extent of your power, then you still have a ways to go". 2. Thank you. 3. Like I said in response to your 1st point actions speak louder than words. 4. Okay, your right about that but still Goku didn't get a whole lot of them. 5. Well let's not forget, Baby used his "Fire Death Ball" on Goku and it showed no visible damage. I don't know about the 10x Kamehameha waves but after Baby got up he said something along the lines of Goku tricking him, so really I think that was Goku's plan but hey I haven't seen the episode in a good while so my memory could be a little fuzzy but I definatly remember Goku tricking Baby with the 10x Kamehamehas.

04-29-2008	#39 (permalink)
SSGokuTim (11) Student of Lord Kaio Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Youtube, owning noobs Posts: 184 Rep Power: 1	Re: SSJ2 Vegito (Buu Saga) vs. SSJ4 Goku (Surpassed Limits) It's VERY clear that Golden oozaru Goku is weaker than SSJ4 Goku. First of all, SSJ4 Goku is in complete control of his power, allowing him to use his power to its maximum potential. Second, there's no way golden ape Goku could defeat golden ape Baby. There's potentially a 10x increase of the SSJ form to Golden Oozaru, just like there's a 10x increase of base form for normal oozaru. Then, for Super Saiyan 4, I say either make it SSJ3 x4 or Golden Oozaru x2. It's just not possible to have SSJ4 Goku be weaker or only as strong as Golden Oozaru. Goku (Base): 680 SSJ3 Goku: 8,160 Baby Vegeta (1): 8,300 Super Baby: 10,500 Super Baby 2: 13,400 Goku (Base w/Tail): 750 SSJ Goku: 1,500 (Base x2) SSJ2 Goku: 3,000 (SSJ x2) SSJ3 Goku: 9,000 (SSJ3 x3) Golden Oozaru Goku: 15,000 SSJ4 Goku: 30,000 to 36,000 (Golden Oozaru x2 or SSJ3 x4) __________________ ________________ GT Power Levels, revised: http://anime.myfavoritegames.com/ani...er-levels.html

04-29-2008	#40 (permalink)
SSJ4 Vegito (18) Artificial Human Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 957 Rep Power: 3	Re: SSJ2 Vegito (Buu Saga) vs. SSJ4 Goku (Surpassed Limits) Well okay but senzu bean what I was trying to say is that Goku easily broke out of Baby Vegeta's grip on him.Just letting you know that so you don't think I'm retarded or anything (Not saying you said that, I just wanted to clear up what I meant). However, like I said I haven't seen the episode in awhile so I'll just watch it again when I get the chance.

05-02-2008	#42 (permalink)
vicdmx (13) Great Ape Join Date: May 2008 Location: Spain Posts: 278 Rep Power: 1	Re: SSJ2 Vegito (Buu Saga) vs. SSJ4 Goku (Surpassed Limits) Woo this would be a awesome fight to see! Tough one to but I would say Goku would nick it.