Bojack's Crew vs LSSj Broly(Movie 8) - Page 9

SSJ4 Vegito · 04-22-2008

I understand that but Goku didn't, Piccolo had to tell him that despite Gohan's power he was still a child. Also Gohan seemed much more willing to fight against Broly, than against Cell it was like he was trying not to kill him. Also like I said before in Movie 9 he did much better where as the other Z Fighters where still just pushovers. That to me shows that he wasn't MSSJ in Movie 8 but he was in Movie 9.

Cableguy15 · 04-23-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senzu_Bean

I have to reply at this post. I am not here for a long time but I know from Broly's post that he is everything except a Broly fan boy. Doesn't mean just because he is a Broly fan and believe Broly is stronger than most people think here tend to believe that he isn't above all a Dragon Ball fan and doesn't know what he is talking about.

Even if you don't agree with him, he at least provides facts for his view on the contrary of most people here that simple state their view with other bases without probably even know what they are talking about.

Ironically enough he did have proof, or atleast I know he does now.

Daizenshuu EX :: View topic - Editorial: The Placement of Movies 8 and 10.

"When, exactly, would the characters have been "pulled" from then? Movie 8 was released in March of 1993. Three months before that would be December of 1992. The first episode that aired in that month was Episode 167, in which Cell announces the Cell Game. This is one episode before Goku and Gohan re-emerge from the Room of Spirit and Time. The Movie began production before Gohan and Goku had finished their training, and had certainly not yet shown what kind of power they had in this "full power" state. Would this not mean that the characters are based off of the period of time in which Trunks and Vegeta are fighting Cell? We actually see Goku and Gohan during this fight, training in the Room of Spirit and Time. In the Manga, the last time we see them training, Gohan has just had his hair cut and can turn Super Saiyan. His hair length is suspiciously similar to how it looks in Movie 8. His bangs are shorter than in the Cell Game and the back has little spiking. Without doubt, the length of Gohan's hair in Movie 8 is closer to when we see him in the Room of Spirit and Time then it is in the Cell Game.

"Mid-RoSaT". The characters were extracted from the point in time in which Goku and Gohan were still training in the Room of Spirit and Time. This would be about the point in which Goku shows his ability to tap into the 2nd and 3rd type Super Saiyan transformations. They've been training enough to increase their power hugely, but not yet begun the regimen to relax themselves while transformed and hold the state all the time. The way the battles play out in the movie enforce this, because if the movie was "Post-RoSaT", there would be a huge gap between every protagonist fighter, but they all seem to be on relatively equal footing. Also, if Gohan had completed his training, he would be on the tip of being able to go past the Super Saiyan. However, despite the circumstances and how dire they become, there is no such hint at this. If he was capable, Goku would have been pushing for that instead of the odd way he goes about besting Broli. This means Gohan was not yet ready to fully tap his true Super Saiyan abilities.

Movie 10, as well, enforces this. When Gohan is fighting Broli, he notes to himself that his opponent is every bit as strong as before, and then mentions that he himself has powered up considerably since then. If Gohan had finished his training in the Room of Spirit and Time, there would be something horribly wrong with this statement, because Gohan had lost a large amount of power during the 7 years after the Cell Game. On top of that, when Gohan goes Super Saiyan, he holds out against Broli better than anyone did during Movie 8, proving that he himself had not only become stronger since then, but was greater than where everyone else was at the point of movie 8."

Pretty much sums up why they're not MSSJs in movie 8 if you ask me.

Broly · 04-24-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJ4 Vegito

I understand that but Goku didn't, Piccolo had to tell him that despite Gohan's power he was still a child. Also Gohan seemed much more willing to fight against Broly, than against Cell it was like he was trying not to kill him. Also like I said before in Movie 9 he did much better where as the other Z Fighters where still just pushovers. That to me shows that he wasn't MSSJ in Movie 8 but he was in Movie 9.

The movies do not necessarily bring one character's particular emotion from the canon story into it's plot base, for they [the main story and the movies] are both opposites, canon and non-canon. What would Gohan have to gain by jumping in front of Legendary SSj Broly while in base? Absolutely nothing. He was never willing or eager to fight Broly. It was his declaration of defense for his father.

You're forgetting that Vegeta was beaten much easier in Movie 8 than in Movie 9. Gohan was still the supreme member of the Zet Senshi in both movies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableguy15

Ironically enough he did have proof, or atleast I know he does now.

Daizenshuu EX :: View topic - Editorial: The Placement of Movies 8 and 10.

"When, exactly, would the characters have been "pulled" from then? Movie 8 was released in March of 1993. Three months before that would be December of 1992. The first episode that aired in that month was Episode 167, in which Cell announces the Cell Game. This is one episode before Goku and Gohan re-emerge from the Room of Spirit and Time. The Movie began production before Gohan and Goku had finished their training, and had certainly not yet shown what kind of power they had in this "full power" state. Would this not mean that the characters are based off of the period of time in which Trunks and Vegeta are fighting Cell? We actually see Goku and Gohan during this fight, training in the Room of Spirit and Time. In the Manga, the last time we see them training, Gohan has just had his hair cut and can turn Super Saiyan. His hair length is suspiciously similar to how it looks in Movie 8. His bangs are shorter than in the Cell Game and the back has little spiking. Without doubt, the length of Gohan's hair in Movie 8 is closer to when we see him in the Room of Spirit and Time then it is in the Cell Game.

"Mid-RoSaT". The characters were extracted from the point in time in which Goku and Gohan were still training in the Room of Spirit and Time. This would be about the point in which Goku shows his ability to tap into the 2nd and 3rd type Super Saiyan transformations. They've been training enough to increase their power hugely, but not yet begun the regimen to relax themselves while transformed and hold the state all the time. The way the battles play out in the movie enforce this, because if the movie was "Post-RoSaT", there would be a huge gap between every protagonist fighter, but they all seem to be on relatively equal footing. Also, if Gohan had completed his training, he would be on the tip of being able to go past the Super Saiyan. However, despite the circumstances and how dire they become, there is no such hint at this. If he was capable, Goku would have been pushing for that instead of the odd way he goes about besting Broli. This means Gohan was not yet ready to fully tap his true Super Saiyan abilities.

Movie 10, as well, enforces this. When Gohan is fighting Broli, he notes to himself that his opponent is every bit as strong as before, and then mentions that he himself has powered up considerably since then. If Gohan had finished his training in the Room of Spirit and Time, there would be something horribly wrong with this statement, because Gohan had lost a large amount of power during the 7 years after the Cell Game. On top of that, when Gohan goes Super Saiyan, he holds out against Broli better than anyone did during Movie 8, proving that he himself had not only become stronger since then, but was greater than where everyone else was at the point of movie 8."

Pretty much sums up why they're not MSSJs in movie 8 if you ask me.

First off, the Air Date Theory is simply a fallacy. For if all that were true, then we wouldn't see Dende as Guardian of Earth in Movie 6, in which depicted a pre-Cyborg Arc setting. All meaning the makers of that movie already knew the events of the Manga, disregarding the due air-dates of the anime episodes. Second, if you take a look in the manga, Gohan looks much smaller while in the RoSaT than in Movie 8. His body looks as if he were still a little twerp. Compare Gohan's body in Movie 8 with the pictures of Gohan during his training in the RoSaT, and I guarantee you'll see a difference. At least I did. [look at page 25]

Broly's vastly superior power is what made the Zet Senshi look identically weak. He was toying with all of them anyway. And there was really no time for Goku to try to make Gohan angry either. They were being hunted and chased down by Broly the entire time from the beginning of their battle. And really, Goku not telling Gohan to get angry is a silly argument in my opinion, because the movie creators will do as they will. Apparently, it wasn't part of their ambition to make Gohan the hero, but Goku. So telling Gohan to try to become angry would just be a waste of film, if they were aiming to make Goku the hero anyway. Also, it would take way too much for Gohan to grow to the breaking point of ascending to SSj2. Cell had almost ran out of ideas...[lol] But nah, really, Gohan had to be pushed to a very high degree of anger. He didn't ascend into SSj2 until he and all his friends were beaten to pulp, and 16 had given his speech and died. If it wasn't for 16's empathetic speech, it's very likely Gohan would not have broken the through the proverbial Super Saiyan wall.

As for your last paragragh, I believe Gohan was SSj2 when fighting Broly, so...

Cableguy15 · 04-24-2008

Just so you know, that wasn't mine, it was just something I found that seemed right.

Quote:

As for your last paragragh, I believe Gohan was SSj2 when fighting Broly, so...

Oh? And how come? Nothing in the movie stood out to me as "SSJ2". Movie 9 atleast showed some sparks when Gohan was a SSJ2. TOEI just "Forgetting" to add them seems very unlikely.

In Movie 8...
-Vegeta and Trunks are too close to Goku in power for Goku to be a MSSJ. At no point are they shown ascending to grade 2 SSJ in the movie (Not that it would bring them up to Goku's full power anyway) either.

-In movie 10 Gohan states that he had gotten stronger... This is a false statement if Gohan was a MSSJ in movie 8.

-Goku's lack of confidence in Gohan pretty much spoke volumes to me. If Gohan was atleast on Goku's level, I seriously doubt he's going to tell him to stay back. Afterall, he needs all the help he can get. "Caring about gohan" doesn't exactly come across as a reason for Goku to tell Gohan to stay back. Goku knew full well Cell was stronger than Gohan when he sent him to fight anyway.

Senzu_Bean · 04-24-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableguy15

Oh? And how come? Nothing in the movie stood out to me as "SSJ2". Movie 9 atleast showed some sparks when Gohan was a SSJ2. TOEI just "Forgetting" to add them seems very unlikely.

I think he mistake MSSj by SSj2 in his last post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableguy15

In Movie 8...
-Vegeta and Trunks are too close to Goku in power for Goku to be a MSSJ. At no point are they shown ascending to grade 2 SSJ in the movie (Not that it would bring them up to Goku's full power anyway) either.

I don't remember seeing Goku be defeated by only one hit from Broly like Vegeta did and Son clearly last longer than both of them.

About Vegeta and Trunks aren't SSj 2nd Grades that is incorrect. I even can forgive you if you don't think Vegeta is SSj 2nd Grade but ignore Trunks be one is just ridiculous, and if Trunks is one, Vegeta is one too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableguy15

-In movie 10 Gohan states that he had gotten stronger... This is a false statement if Gohan was a MSSJ in movie 8.

Super Saiyan 2, anyone?!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableguy15

-Goku's lack of confidence in Gohan pretty much spoke volumes to me. If Gohan was atleast on Goku's level, I seriously doubt he's going to tell him to stay back. Afterall, he needs all the help he can get. "Caring about gohan" doesn't exactly come across as a reason for Goku to tell Gohan to stay back. Goku knew full well Cell was stronger than Gohan when he sent him to fight anyway.

What do you think Goku would do if at Cell Games time Fat Buu would appear in front of Zet Senshi? I doubt Goku would throw Gohan infront of Majin Buu since this one would be too much for Gohan to handle. Son Goku would probably "sacrifice" himself for his son live.

Regarding the bold part Son Goku knew Son Gohan was stronger than Cell that is why he insisted Gohan fight it. If Gohan was weaker than Cell Goku wouldn't throw Gohan into Cell hands.

Cableguy15 · 04-25-2008

Quote:

I don't remember seeing Goku be defeated by only one hit from Broly like Vegeta did and Son clearly last longer than both of them.

About Vegeta and Trunks aren't SSj 2nd Grades that is incorrect. I even can forgive you if you don't think Vegeta is SSj 2nd Grade but ignore Trunks be one is just ridiculous, and if Trunks is one, Vegeta is one too.

I said same level, not equal. You hjave to understand that there's a very big difference between MSSJ and SSJ in the Cell Games.

What are you talking about? :/ Neither of them power up to grade 2 in the movie. You would see their muscles increasing in size greatly, and it would have to be while in SSJ. We see nothing of the sort happening in Movie 8.

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Super Saiyan 2, anyone?!

He wasn't a SSJ2 in movie 10. It's shown clear as day that he's only SSJ.

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What do you think Goku would do if at Cell Games time Fat Buu would appear in front of Zet Senshi? I doubt Goku would throw Gohan infront of Majin Buu since this one would be too much for Gohan to handle. Son Goku would probably "sacrifice" himself for his son live.

Not the best example, and I doubt that's how it would go anyway. There's a much bigger difference between Fat Buu and MSSJ Gohan than there is between broly and Movie 8 Gohan... It's not even comparable.

Quote:

Regarding the bold part Son Goku knew Son Gohan was stronger than Cell that is why he insisted Gohan fight it. If Gohan was weaker than Cell Goku wouldn't throw Gohan into Cell hands.

He knew Gohan would be stronger than Cell once his power was awakened. Cell's full power was far greater than MSSJ Gohan's when Goku had him fight Cell.

SRP76 · 04-25-2008

Broly fans seem to use any excuse to try to give Gohan his Cell Games power level in Movie 8.

Every single frame of the film contradicts that. Why hang on?

I think some people just say, "if Gohan's a Super Saiyan, this must be during the Cell Games!", and that's it.

Senzu_Bean · 04-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableguy15

I said same level, not equal. You hjave to understand that there's a very big difference between MSSJ and SSJ in the Cell Games.

Same=equal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableguy15

What are you talking about? :/ Neither of them power up to grade 2 in the movie. You would see their muscles increasing in size greatly, and it would have to be while in SSJ. We see nothing of the sort happening in Movie 8.

Their muscles increase in size: YouTube - Goku, Gohan & Trunks vs. Broly

Bold part isn't a requirement for being SSj 2nd Grade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableguy15

He wasn't a SSJ2 in movie 10. It's shown clear as day that he's only SSJ.

Since when Gohan has two SSj forms?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableguy15

Not the best example, and I doubt that's how it would go anyway. There's a much bigger difference between Fat Buu and MSSJ Gohan than there is between broly and Movie 8 Gohan... It's not even comparable.

Except for the powers the scene is equal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableguy15

He knew Gohan would be stronger than Cell once his power was awakened. Cell's full power was far greater than MSSJ Gohan's when Goku had him fight Cell.

Actually only Cell 100% or full power is stronger than MSSj Gohan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRP76

Broly fans seem to use any excuse to try to give Gohan his Cell Games power level in Movie 8.

Every single frame of the film contradicts that. Why hang on?

I think some people just say, "if Gohan's a Super Saiyan, this must be during the Cell Games!", and that's it.

Can you please state what is so explanatory in the movie that Gohan is mid-rosat.

The Green Dragon · 04-25-2008

Gohan was mid-RoSot when Gohan had turned Ssj in the RoSot, Movie 8 was taken from that moment.

Reasons for being post-Vegeta and Trunks' RoSot

Trunks' hair is long

Reasons for being post-Goku and Gohan's entrance into the RoSot

Gohan can go Super Saiyan, as well as having short hair

Reasons for being pre-Goku and Gohan leaving into the RoSot

Goku and Gohan's natural state was not Super Saiyan

Anyway Vegeta did go to the second grade but

A) He is the only one to do so in the movie.
B) It was when Vegeta tried to take on Broly himself after, the others failed, claiming he was the Prince of All Saiyans and he must stop Broly.

Senzu_Bean · 04-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Green Dragon

Gohan was mid-RoSot when Gohan had turned Ssj in the RoSot, Movie 8 was taken from that moment.

Gohan turned SSj for the first time in rosat and we only see him SSj in the rosat when he was still a kid not a teen like he is in the movie (using name games).

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Green Dragon

Reasons for being post-Vegeta and Trunks' RoSot

Trunks' hair is long

Vegeta and Trunks can go SSj 2nd Grade. Did you even see the video I posted?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Green Dragon

Reasons for being pre-Goku and Gohan leaving into the RoSot

Goku and Gohan's natural state was not Super Saiyan

Since when you need to be always in your SSj state to be a MSSj?

Cableguy15 · 04-25-2008

Quote:

Same=equal.

Please tell me you're joking. Same level is not the same as equal. It only means they're close in power.

Quote:

Their muscles increase in size: YouTube - Goku, Gohan & Trunks vs. Broly

Bold part isn't a requirement for being SSj 2nd Grade.

Look at Trunks in the very video you posted. His muscles are nowhere near big enough to be ASSJ.

The part you bolded is a requirement; There's no point where someone goes Grade 2 instantly.

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Since when Gohan has two SSj forms?

Never in movie 10 :)

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Except for the powers the scene is equal.

No, they aren't.

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Actually only Cell 100% or full power is stronger than MSSj Gohan.

Goku knew how strong Cell was, even at full power. Otherwise he wouldn't have acted like he was going to be beaten down horribly by Cell (Which he did after they met for the first time)

Evil Vegeta · 04-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableguy15

There's no point where someone goes Grade 2 instantly.

Trunks did when he was about to attack Semi-Cell.

Cableguy15 · 04-25-2008

Looking into it they might have actually been ASSJs in the movie.... It's hard to te

04-22-2008	#121 (permalink)
SSJ4 Vegito (23) Final Warrior Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,710 Rep Power: 49	Re: Bojack's Crew vs LSSj Broly(Movie 8) I understand that but Goku didn't, Piccolo had to tell him that despite Gohan's power he was still a child. Also Gohan seemed much more willing to fight against Broly, than against Cell it was like he was trying not to kill him. Also like I said before in Movie 9 he did much better where as the other Z Fighters where still just pushovers. That to me shows that he wasn't MSSJ in Movie 8 but he was in Movie 9.

04-25-2008	#127 (permalink)
SRP76 (22) Super Saiyan 3 Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,267 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 29	Re: Bojack's Crew vs LSSj Broly(Movie 8) Broly fans seem to use any excuse to try to give Gohan his Cell Games power level in Movie 8. Every single frame of the film contradicts that. Why hang on? I think some people just say, "if Gohan's a Super Saiyan, this must be during the Cell Games!", and that's it.

04-25-2008	#129 (permalink)
The Green Dragon (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Lloegr Posts: 3,203 Blog Entries: 2 Rep Power: 127	Re: Bojack's Crew vs LSSj Broly(Movie 8) Gohan was mid-RoSot when Gohan had turned Ssj in the RoSot, Movie 8 was taken from that moment. Reasons for being post-Vegeta and Trunks' RoSot Trunks' hair is long Reasons for being post-Goku and Gohan's entrance into the RoSot Gohan can go Super Saiyan, as well as having short hair Reasons for being pre-Goku and Gohan leaving into the RoSot Goku and Gohan's natural state was not Super Saiyan Anyway Vegeta did go to the second grade but A) He is the only one to do so in the movie. B) It was when Vegeta tried to take on Broly himself after, the others failed, claiming he was the Prince of All Saiyans and he must stop Broly. __________________ "TGD" "*One time this ciggy lolligagger dicked on my snatch.* Un amsera hon ffagod butain dicked acha 'm snatch." [MFG Reputation Guide for Beginners]\|[-ORLY?-]\|[-YA RLY!-]\|[Lolage]\|[.stan]

04-25-2008	#133 (permalink)
Cableguy15 (19) Mastered Super Saiyan Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,049 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 15	Re: Bojack's Crew vs LSSj Broly(Movie 8) Looking into it they might have actually been ASSJs in the movie.... It's hard to te