Bojack's Crew vs LSSj Broly(Movie 8) - Page 10

SRP76 · 04-25-2008

True.

Another thing:

The Cell Games takes place 29 years after Frieza destroyed Vegeta.

Movie 8 takes place 30 years after Frieza destroyed Vegeta.

Simply put, if Movie 8 had anything to do with canon events (and, by extension, power levels of the fighters), Goku would not be in it, since he would be dead.

The fact that Goku's breathing means that none of this "it happened in canon, so that's how strong the fighters have to be" nonsense is useless.

Senzu_Bean · 04-25-2008

So SRP76 by your posts I can't see neither facts to point Movie 8 is mid-rosat.

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Originally Posted by Cableguy15

Please tell me you're joking. Same level is not the same as equal. It only means they're close in power.

Well let see: Goku and Vegeta have both the same level: 5000. Aren't they equal?

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Originally Posted by Cableguy15

Look at Trunks in the very video you posted. His muscles are nowhere near big enough to be ASSJ.

Of course not! Trunks's muscles aren't big enough to be ASSJ because he isn't an ASSJ byt a SSj 2nd Grade.

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Originally Posted by Cableguy15

The part you bolded is a requirement; There's no point where someone goes Grade 2 instantly.

Though that doesn't mean it is a requirement. Just because you didn't see nobody do that in canon material doesn't mean someone can't make it in non-canon material.

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Originally Posted by Cableguy15

Never in movie 10 :)

Have in one scene just a bang and in another two is what?

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Originally Posted by Cableguy15

Goku knew how strong Cell was, even at full power.

So he knew Gohan was stronger than Cell otherwise wouldn't throw him at Cell hands.

SRP76 · 04-25-2008

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Originally Posted by Senzu_Bean

So SRP76 by your posts I can't see neither facts to point Movie 8 is mid-rosat.

Yeah, a mountain of evidence that shows Movie 8 characters not to be post-RoSaT must mean that they are post-RoSaT. How logical.

**Broly** · 04-26-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableguy15

Just so you know, that wasn't mine, it was just something I found that seemed right.

Oh? And how come? Nothing in the movie stood out to me as "SSJ2". Movie 9 atleast showed some sparks when Gohan was a SSJ2. TOEI just "Forgetting" to add them seems very unlikely.

In Movie 8...
-Vegeta and Trunks are too close to Goku in power for Goku to be a MSSJ. At no point are they shown ascending to grade 2 SSJ in the movie (Not that it would bring them up to Goku's full power anyway) either.

-In movie 10 Gohan states that he had gotten stronger... This is a false statement if Gohan was a MSSJ in movie 8.

-Goku's lack of confidence in Gohan pretty much spoke volumes to me. If Gohan was atleast on Goku's level, I seriously doubt he's going to tell him to stay back. Afterall, he needs all the help he can get. "Caring about gohan" doesn't exactly come across as a reason for Goku to tell Gohan to stay back. Goku knew full well Cell was stronger than Gohan when he sent him to fight anyway.

What’s seems unlikely to me is Toei being right in this situation. Why? Because they’ve been proven to have forgotten sparks before in Movie 12, and Movie 13 as well, I believe. Goku is shown combating Janemba [1st form] in his SSj2 state. This is discernable by the three strands of hair coming down his face. He was SSj2 there in that fight. Toei did not add the sparks there. Hmph. Also, we see a transformed Vegeta fight a transformed Janemba. Now of course, Vegeta’s hair is nigh impossible to determine SSj or SSj2, but here’s my thought on this, and a very logical one at that. Vegeta must have been SSj2 there, because SSj2 is weaker than even Janemba’s first state, thus why Goku transformed into SSj3. So I find it very hard to believe that Vegeta could step in as a Super Saiyan 1 and semi-adeptly handle Janemba [transformed] for the time he did. If an SSj2 can’t handle Janemba’s 1st state, how could an SSj1 fight a transformed Janemba the way Vegeta did? That’s why I’m of the notion that he was SSj2. And that’s why I think it’s very possible that Toei forgot to add in the sparks for SSj2 in Movie 10. And the reason that brings me to this conclusion of thought is Gohan’s hair, his aura, and the magnitude and sound of his punches. If you ask me, Gohan’s aura, during his first transformation in fighting Broly, was very identical to Post-Zenkai Cell’s. His hair also looks very similar to his SSj2 style, being more refined an all, as well as having one strand of hair coming across his face, when at that time in the manga his SSj1 hairstyle had 2 strands of hair coming down his face. And it’s funny too, because he has that exact hairstyle at the end of the movie, but as I said, not after he first transforms.
So what? It’s shown that Broly was toying with the entire Zet Senshi, even when he beat Vegeta in one attack. It’s quite obvious he had the power to destroy them at any given time. The power difference between Vegeta, Trunks, and Goku and Gohan is unimportant in configuring their stage of power because of Broly’s superior power. It’s like sending Bojack’s crew and the Cell Jrs to go fight MSSj Goku [Buu Arc], they’re all gonna look identically the same in terms of power, especially when their opponent is toying around with them giving one or the other numerous chances to fight back. Fact is, the Movie does not shown any definite difference between SSj and MSSj because their powers and movements look the same in contrast to someone much stronger than them. Other facts of the Post-RoSaT theory support this claim to be probable. Now, I found it interesting that Trunks’ jacket disintegrated when he transformed to fight Broly. You never see Trunks’ Jjacket rip like that in Movie 9, or any other time he transforms. This indicates a body increase in muscle. And I find this to be backed up by pictures of Trunks during the end especially, when he’s cheering his dad on. Both Vegeta and Trunks looked much more muscular than either Goku or Gohan. This all only points to Vegeta and Trunks being 2nd Grade Super Saiyans.
Again, I support my claim that Gohan was SSj2 for said reasons above. He claimed that he was supposed to have gotten stronger than before, I believe in the English version. This doesn’t mean he was a stronger MSSj in Movie 10 then he was in Movie 8. He’s simply referring to the fact that he was supposed to be training like Vegeta over the seven-year training period, but didn’t because of laziness and school. He was supposed to have powered up considerably if he had trained like Vegeta, but he never did, so he’s basically saying he regrets his powerlessness and slacking off.
Well, no. Cell was not stronger than Gohan. Gohan was stronger than Cell, stated by Goku, confirmed by Gohan, and re-affirmed by Cell to be indeed true. Read the manga if you have any objection about this. Second, I don’t see how it’s so hard for you to believe that Goku simply wanted to save the life of his son. Trunks had just gotten pwned by Broly, and Goku and Gohan clearly witnessed the ruthlessness and power of Broly’s attacks. Its obvious Goku and Gohan do not sense power levels like scouters. Numbers do not appear in their mind telling them the power of their opponent; they just feel the intensity of the power from the one they’re sensing it from. And so, they felt Broly’s power in the very beginning of his hunt of them, of course, but they didn’t make a stand until after Broly blew up the slaves’ planet. That’s when they decided to make a stand, and it was only after one of their comrades had gotten thrashed that Goku assessed the possibilities and potential of the outcome of the fight. He knew both he and Gohan were outclassed, and he loved his son, so he thought it best, as the good-loving father he is, to tell Gohan to run because of the sheer hopelessness of the situation at hand. He knew if Gohan stayed, they both would’ve been killed right there. But he wanted Gohan to have some time to separate, giving Gohan a head start for survival, while he stayed behind to deal with Broly. The outcome was practically the same anyway. Broly caught up to Gohan and almost killed him. If it wasn’t for Goku stepping in to stall Broly along with Piccolo, he would have. But it’s not like Gohan didn’t say anything about his father’s decision. He did protest against it in shock, but Goku did not take Gohan’s back-talk, he still had him leave. And that’s the perspective in which I see this action by Goku making full sense.

Evil Vegeta · 04-26-2008

Gohan stated that he powered-up considerably since the last battle in the original as well.

**Broly** · 04-26-2008

Yes. Actually, I meant the Jap version, or that was at least the version I was referancing for Gohan's statement.

Cableguy15 · 04-26-2008

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Well let see: Goku and Vegeta have both the same level: 5000. Aren't they equal?

You don't get it... Nevermind.

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Of course not! Trunks's muscles aren't big enough to be ASSJ because he isn't an ASSJ byt a SSj 2nd Grade.

They're the same thing.

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Though that doesn't mean it is a requirement. Just because you didn't see nobody do that in canon material doesn't mean someone can't make it in non-canon material.

That was my mistake, Trunks did it in the manga. Still a little questionable as to whether he was in the movie though...

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Have in one scene just a bang and in another two is what?

I don't get what you're asking here... Can you rephrase that?

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So he knew Gohan was stronger than Cell otherwise wouldn't throw him at Cell hands.

He knew Gohan would be stronger than Cell once he became SSJ2. That was the plan. Cell at his full power is stronger than MSSJ Gohan. It's clearly shown when Cell uses his "True speed".

Quote:

What’s seems unlikely to me is Toei being right in this situation. Why? Because they’ve been proven to have forgotten sparks before in Movie 12, and Movie 13 as well, I believe. Goku is shown combating Janemba [1st form] in his SSj2 state. This is discernable by the three strands of hair coming down his face. He was SSj2 there in that fight. Toei did not add the sparks there. Hmph. Also, we see a transformed Vegeta fight a transformed Janemba. Now of course, Vegeta’s hair is nigh impossible to determine SSj or SSj2, but here’s my thought on this, and a very logical one at that. Vegeta must have been SSj2 there, because SSj2 is weaker than even Janemba’s first state, thus why Goku transformed into SSj3. So I find it very hard to believe that Vegeta could step in as a Super Saiyan 1 and semi-adeptly handle Janemba [transformed] for the time he did. If an SSj2 can’t handle Janemba’s 1st state, how could an SSj1 fight a transformed Janemba the way Vegeta did? That’s why I’m of the notion that he was SSj2. And that’s why I think it’s very possible that Toei forgot to add in the sparks for SSj2 in Movie 10. And the reason that brings me to this conclusion of thought is Gohan’s hair, his aura, and the magnitude and sound of his punches. If you ask me, Gohan’s aura, during his first transformation in fighting Broly, was very identical to Post-Zenkai Cell’s. His hair also looks very similar to his SSj2 style, being more refined an all, as well as having one strand of hair coming across his face, when at that time in the manga his SSj1 hairstyle had 2 strands of hair coming down his face. And it’s funny too, because he has that exact hairstyle at the end of the movie, but as I said, not after he first transforms.

The problem here is that you're immediately suggesting TOEI is consistant with everything. If TOEI forgets something as easy to remember as sparks, do you honestly think they're going to pay attention to the detail of how many strands of hair are coming oyt of Gohan's hair? :/ The same with "SSJ2" Goku. You're immediately dismissing the fact that he could just be SSJ due to strands of hair...

Quote:

Again, I support my claim that Gohan was SSj2 for said reasons above. He claimed that he was supposed to have gotten stronger than before, I believe in the English version. This doesn’t mean he was a stronger MSSj in Movie 10 then he was in Movie 8. He’s simply referring to the fact that he was supposed to be training like Vegeta over the seven-year training period, but didn’t because of laziness and school. He was supposed to have powered up considerably if he had trained like Vegeta, but he never did, so he’s basically saying he regrets his powerlessness and slacking off.

How do you interpret Gohan saying he had gotten stronger as he should have gotten stronger, exactly?

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Well, no. Cell was not stronger than Gohan. Gohan was stronger than Cell, stated by Goku, confirmed by Gohan, and re-affirmed by Cell to be indeed true. Read the manga if you have any objection about thi

When Cell uses his "True" speed he's faster than Gohan is. Cell (Full power)>>MSSJ Gohan.

Quote:

Trunks had just gotten pwned by Broly, and Goku and Gohan clearly witnessed the ruthlessness and power of Broly’s attacks. Its obvious Goku and Gohan do not sense power levels like scouters. Numbers do not appear in their mind telling them the power of their opponent; they just feel the intensity of the power from the one they’re sensing it from. And so, they felt Broly’s power in the very beginning of his hunt of them, of course, but they didn’t make a stand until after Broly blew up the slaves’ planet. That’s when they decided to make a stand, and it was only after one of their comrades had gotten thrashed that Goku assessed the possibilities and potential of the outcome of the fight. He knew both he and Gohan were outclassed, and he loved his son, so he thought it best, as the good-loving father he is, to tell Gohan to run because of the sheer hopelessness of the situation at hand. He knew if Gohan stayed, they both would’ve been killed right there. But he wanted Gohan to have some time to separate, giving Gohan a head start for survival, while he stayed behind to deal with Broly. The outcome was practically the same anyway. Broly caught up to Gohan and almost killed him. If it wasn’t for Goku stepping in to stall Broly along with Piccolo, he would have. But it’s not like Gohan didn’t say anything about his father’s decision. He did protest against it in shock, but Goku did not take Gohan’s back-talk, he still had him leave. And that’s the perspective in which I see this action by Goku making full sense.

If he saw it fit that Gohan stay behind, it means there was no hope that Gohan could reveal his "Full potential" in this case, meaning Gohan is not strong enough at this point. I'm not saying Goku doesn't care for his son, but if he knows Gohan has the potential to unlock an enormous power he has no reason to tell him to stay behind.

Evil Vegeta · 04-26-2008

Trunks didn't have the muscles, but his jacket seemed to vanish when he transformed, which didn't happen anytime before, or in #9 when he powered-up.

**Broly** · 04-26-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableguy15

You don't get it... Nevermind.

They're the same thing.

That was my mistake, Trunks did it in the manga. Still a little questionable as to whether he was in the movie though...

I don't get what you're asking here... Can you rephrase that?

He knew Gohan would be stronger than Cell once he became SSJ2. That was the plan. Cell at his full power is stronger than MSSJ Gohan. It's clearly shown when Cell uses his "True speed".

The problem here is that you're immediately suggesting TOEI is consistant with everything. If TOEI forgets something as easy to remember as sparks, do you honestly think they're going to pay attention to the detail of how many strands of hair are coming oyt of Gohan's hair? :/ The same with "SSJ2" Goku. You're immediately dismissing the fact that he could just be SSJ due to strands of hair...

How do you interpret Gohan saying he had gotten stronger as he should have gotten stronger, exactly?

When Cell uses his "True" speed he's faster than Gohan is. Cell (Full power)>>MSSJ Gohan.

If he saw it fit that Gohan stay behind, it means there was no hope that Gohan could reveal his "Full potential" in this case, meaning Gohan is not strong enough at this point. I'm not saying Goku doesn't care for his son, but if he knows Gohan has the potential to unlock an enormous power he has no reason to tell him to stay behind.

1. Well of course, it's a choice, but my choice is based on observation. And that observation, particularly speaking, SSj2 Goku's hairstyle, is what it is. Goku had SSj2 hair in Movie 12 when he fought Janemba [1st form]. You can either choose to think he was SSj2 because of that, or that he's SSj1 because they apparently did not add the sparks to Goku's aura. Unveilingly, Toei included the right hairstyle and excluded the sparks for whatever reason. They did it in GT as well. Perhaps they didn't forget, maybe they just didn't want to. Who knows. You couldn't tell me anything about that anyway. It's just what I presume to be so...that is, Gohan being SSj2 in Movie 10.

2. Well it's plain and simple. The japanese version uses the word "supposed". That means he isn't as strong as he could've been. He speaks in regret because of the situation.

3. I do not reject the fact that Full Power Complete Cell is either stronger or faster than Gohan. Actually, Cell had to use his real speed because his current speed couldn't cut it. Gohan was too fast.

4. Well, for whatever reason, Goku makes no mention of Gohan's raging as any kind of beneficiary for the current battle. Why not? It's the script writers. All evidence points to them being [at least to me] Post-RoSaT Super Saiyans. Either way, Goku was probably already planning to use Gohan's strength as a sort of leverage against Cell prior to entering the RoSaT. That's why he wanted Gohan to tag along with him. So it doesn't really matter if Goku didn't mention it here in Movie 8. Apparently, Gohan's trait was cast aside for the sake of the plot. Toei loves Goku.

Senzu_Bean · 04-27-2008

Agree with Broly's posts and them are also my answers to your post Cableguy15.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Vegeta

Trunks didn't have the muscles, but his jacket seemed to vanish when he transformed, which didn't happen anytime before, or in #9 when he powered-up.

Of course he doesn't have the muscles. That's why his arms are almost twice the diameter of his jacket sleeves and his chest twice as wide. Not to mention what you actually pointed out that his jacket teared when he powered-up. If you come with that theory that his jacket vanished because of his SSj aura doesn't make sense because in also power-up in Movie 9 in a much stronger SSj state and his jacket didn't tear.

**Broly** · 04-27-2008

Well, I just think it's interesting because, why would his jacket rip apart in particular but not the rest of the Zet Senshi when they power-up? Vegeta's case is understandable because of his Saiyan armor-it's flexible, but Goku's and Gohan's clothes do not rip like Trunks'. So this is only a sign of what is. Since this same incident doesn't occur in Movie 9, then Trunks had to have received an increase in muscle mass in Movie 8 for his jacket to just rip apart off his body.

Senzu_Bean · 04-27-2008

Exactly! Not to mention at least for me it really looks like that Trunks body got a huge increase in mass.

Brolyis2strong · 04-29-2008

WOW. I mean come on. Even Base Broly(blue hair about to go LSSJ) could beat Bojack's crew.

Garlic Jr · 04-29-2008

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Originally Posted by Brolyis2strong

WOW. I mean come on. Even Base Broly(blue hair about to go LSSJ) could beat Bojack's crew.

no broly could not, bojack's crew can beat broly from movie 8 easily,

think about it bojack's crew beat MSS gohan with ease,
i also think if gohan was not in or stayed away from goku in movie 8, goku could have beaten broly alot easier without happening to worry bout gohan's saftey

Senzu_Bean · 04-29-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garlic Jr

no broly could not, bojack's crew can beat broly from movie 8 easily,

think about it bojack's crew beat MSS gohan with ease,
i also think if gohan was not in or stayed away from goku in movie 8, goku could have beaten broly alot easier without happening to worry bout gohan's saftey

Only if you believe the movie is mid-rosat.

o_0 How can you say Son Goku could have beat Broly if Gohan didn't "bother" Son Goku? Isn't like Goku fought the most part of the battle with Gohan there. Not to mention Broly was far stronger than he was in that period of time.

04-25-2008	#136 (permalink)
SRP76 (22) Super Saiyan 3 Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,186 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 15	Re: Bojack's Crew vs LSSj Broly(Movie 8) True. Another thing: The Cell Games takes place 29 years after Frieza destroyed Vegeta. Movie 8 takes place 30 years after Frieza destroyed Vegeta. Simply put, if Movie 8 had anything to do with canon events (and, by extension, power levels of the fighters), Goku would not be in it, since he would be dead. The fact that Goku's breathing means that none of this "it happened in canon, so that's how strong the fighters have to be" nonsense is useless.

04-26-2008	#141 (permalink)
Broly God of Death Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Walktown Posts: 7,290 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 17	Re: Bojack's Crew vs LSSj Broly(Movie 8) Yes. Actually, I meant the Jap version, or that was at least the version I was referancing for Gohan's statement. __________________ $E:\Avatars\fhrytuyiuio.JPG$

04-27-2008	#146 (permalink)
Broly God of Death Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Walktown Posts: 7,290 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 17	Re: Bojack's Crew vs LSSj Broly(Movie 8) Well, I just think it's interesting because, why would his jacket rip apart in particular but not the rest of the Zet Senshi when they power-up? Vegeta's case is understandable because of his Saiyan armor-it's flexible, but Goku's and Gohan's clothes do not rip like Trunks'. So this is only a sign of what is. Since this same incident doesn't occur in Movie 9, then Trunks had to have received an increase in muscle mass in Movie 8 for his jacket to just rip apart off his body. __________________ $E:\Avatars\fhrytuyiuio.JPG$

04-27-2008	#147 (permalink)
Senzu_Bean (21) Majin Warrior Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Portugal Posts: 1,616 Rep Power: 3	Re: Bojack's Crew vs LSSj Broly(Movie 8) Exactly! Not to mention at least for me it really looks like that Trunks body got a huge increase in mass.

04-29-2008	#148 (permalink)
Brolyis2strong (13) Great Ape Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 263 Rep Power: 0	Re: Bojack's Crew vs LSSj Broly(Movie 8) WOW. I mean come on. Even Base Broly(blue hair about to go LSSJ) could beat Bojack's crew.