Devilz

There is proof that Gogeta is stronger. I suggest you re-watch the movie.

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Majuub

Well, all the stories of the movies except Wrath of the dragon were written by Akira Toriyama. That's why Chou Gohan got his ass kicked by Hirudegarn and SSJ3 Goku took him out. So we can suggest that, according to the man who wrote the story Goku gainde a major power up over every other character, that also makes him maybe stronger than Janemba, so no question Hirudegarn takes the win even agains Janemba's last form.

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Cableguy15

I think you're confusing Toei with Toriyama......

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Darkprince410

I don't know where you heard that information from, because it's not true. Toriyama-sensei, apart from a few character designs for some of the movies, had as little involvement in creating them as he did GT. You can tell this because there are too many inconsistences in the movies in relation to the canon story to have been created by the same person. For example, movie 4 was supposed to have Gokuu going Ssj for the first time, though the movie was in production before Toriyama-sensei had introduced in the manga what a Super Saiya-jin would look like, so Toei created their own version. If Toriyama-sensei had a hand in writing the movie, don't you think he would have made sure it had the proper Ssj appearance?

Likewise, in movie 6 Gokuu and Koora are shown fighting in some special dimension created by the Shunken Idou, which contradicts what Toriyama-sensei had created the Shunken Idou to be (simply the instantaneous movement between two points). Then look at movie 12, in which Paikuhan appeared quite often. If Toriyama-sensei had written this movie, logic should dictate that he'd know who Paikuhan was, yet in an interview not long after Z had finished (which I had mentioned before in another topic), when asked who he thought was the stronger between Pikkoro and Paikuhan, Toriyama-sensei admitted he didn't know who Paikuhan even was.

The only movie that he really had any moderate hand in helping with was movie 9, but even that one he didn't write or anything to that extent.

Supercool, Gojiita was leagues ahead of Janemba Fighter Form in that movie, as he not only delivered wave after wave of attacks on him that Janemba simply couldn't defend against (several of them were so fast that he couldn't even see them), but he took a full on punch from Janemba to the face and didn't even flinch.

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Majuub

Look at one of your movies, the end credit or look at some sites, it is written his name on story. Only movie 13 hadn't Toriyama's name written on story so I assume that he didn't write this one. Don't forget, he can contradict himself in the movies they are NOT canon. He wrote the story he didn't do the screenplay so it's really possible that the real SSJ Goku didn't look like the SSJ Goku in movie 4.

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LegendarySSJ7

Umm... what? "so I assume that he didn't write this one."? Movie 4 was marketed as the supposed appearance of the Super Saiyan, but they used a nullified and incomplete Super Saiyan appearance to do the such, which certainly denotes it as invalid. Hence that the anime is somewhat consistent with the form in question and somewhat adheres to it, but.... the Manga, not at all (Toriyama-sensei working with diverging inks and a red-grey color scale, which makes the oversaturation of the coloration in the Anime inevitable in its inconsistency), and Toriyama-sensei had little involvement in any of the movies. At least, not in the writing category.
As for the thread? Rather inane. From a canon standpoint it's impossible to guage, but from an anime standpoint the Hildergarn easily takes this (SS1/2 Goku but not SS3 Goku was shown to have trouble with the "Base" Janemba you speak of). Which makes this thread's placement inappropriate. Thread moved to the GT versus forum.

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Darkprince410

I just checked the end credits for movie 5, 8, and 12, and they say original author: Akira Toriyama. That doesn't mean that he's the one that wrote the movie script, it simply means that he wrote the original Dragon Ball Z story. It's the same way that Toriyama-sensei and Toei Animation have to be named when it comes to games like Dragon Ball Z: Budoukai Tenkaichi 2, when neither of them really contributed to the game at all (Toriyama-sensei didn't contribute at all, and Toei simply licensed the rights to Atari (and the japanese affiliate company) to have the game made. Toei Animation is legally obligated to credit Toriyama-sensei in the ending credits of everything involved with Dragonball/ Z/ GT, and every time that is done, it is listed as "Original Author: Akira Toriyama" or "Based off the manga 'Dragon Ball' by Akira Toriyama". It's a contractual obligation, nothing more.

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Majuub

Well how can I deny what you said, it seems you know the contracts and that you are working for Toei, if you say so, you must be right. It says original author Akira Toriyama at the end credit if Akira Toriyama hadn't write it, it would say: Original idea from: Akira Toriyama. Not original author. It's like when you watch the TV show of Mario Bros it's written: Original idea from: Shigeru Myamoto. Not Original author: Shigeru Myamoto because Shigeru Myamoto didn't write the story of the show. I'll admit something, I like you Darkprince410, each time I say something you're always there to say the exact opposite lol. I like to argue with you, you always have strong points and I always have strong points to defend my ideas, shame we can never agree lol.
But I know Darkprince410 must think I'm pretty annoying lol.

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Darkprince410

Annoying? No, you're a refreshing change of pace around here.

The difference between Shigeru Miyamoto and Akira Toriyama-sensei being credited in their work is that Shigeru didn't write the story behind Mario (not exclusively anyway), but the character itself was his idea for when "Mario" was introduced into the Donkey Kong arcade game as "Jumpman". He didn't exclusively write the whole Mushroom Kingdom being attacked by Bowser and whatnot scenario, so he can't come off as being the original author, but he is credited for the original idea because Mario is his creation. Furthermore, it's not a written story in the way that Dragonball is, so saying he's the author wouldn't really fit anyway. Toriyama-sensei on the other hand was the sole writer for the manga, so saying he's the original author fits perfectly.

It's not a matter of me working for Toei or anything like that, because it's not. I just know that Toriyama-sensei had little to do with GT or the movies (by his own admission in multiple interviews, he worked on some character designs for some of the movies, but apart from that he didn't have a hand in making it), but legally Toei would have to credit everything with the Dragonball label as being originally Toriyama-sensei's creation so that he could be paid royalties for it, but also because he could sue them otherwise.

The same event happened with the game Tetris and its creator Alexey Pajitnov. For a time his name didn't appear on any versions of Tetris released, and he didn't get any money for them. Nowadays, any official form of Tetris (one carrying the name "Tetris") is now obligated to have Pajitnov's name somewhere in the credits, otherwise he could sue them, even if he had no hand in actually making that new form of Tetris. As long as it bears the name Tetris, he has to be credited for it.

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Super_17

hirudagarn would pick janemba in his first transformation apart

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Super Cool

I know gogeta was stronger than Janemba but i hate gogeta(especially after beating me 10 times yesterday) but i still think janemba might beat hirudegarn.

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Devilz

Hirudegarn > Mystic Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ Gogeta > Janemba > SSJ3 Goku

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Cableguy15

Not according to Toei.....



Watch the movie again and you'll see that SSJ3 Goku is made out to be stronger than Mystic Gohan. By no means is it correct in the canon universe of course.

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Super Cool

SS3 Goku beat hirudegarn and Janemba pummeled SS3 goku so janemba > Hirudegarn.

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Devilz

He wasn't stronger. He just had that Dragon Fist attack that did the trick and he found Hirudegarn's weakness.

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