Cell Junior versus Broly (movie 8) - Page 9

Evil Vegeta · 02-28-2008

I also agree, Broly. I used to believe it was only their base forms givin off chi; that just makes no sense, though. If they powered-up into SSJ, the amount of chi would've been greater? No. Chi is all the same, and everyone gave off the the chi they were capable of givin off at that point. Super Saiyan or not, it's all the same when it comes down to it.

Jay · 02-28-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broly

Goten and Trunks aren't shown turning Super Saiyan, and you don't see Piccolo power up before he gives his energy either. This indicates that one can transfer their full power [or Super Saiyan power in Goten and Trunks' case] to another.

When did Goten and Trunks transfer their Ssj energy in Base form? And how do you know it is Ssj energy?

Also, Ultra Super Saiyan energy being harnessed in Base Saiyan form is SERIOUSLY out of the question.

It's not even possible in Super Saiyan Grade 1 form.

**Vizard** · 02-28-2008

Broly, I didn't say SSj energy cannot be transfered overall. I said SSj energy cannot be transfered while in BASE form. Let alone "USSj".
What makes you think the energy given by Goten and Trunks for the spirit bomb in Kid Buu saga was SSj energy? Also, since this is the non-canon forum, remember movie 7?
I'm not sure but Goku states it that he cannot control the spirit bomb while in SSj form because of the rage.

Jay · 02-28-2008

Super Saiyan energy cannot be harnessed unless in a Super Saiyan state,
Ultra Super Saiyan energy cannont be harnessed unless in an Ultra Super Saiyan state.

The only claim that suggests they can is that they reached those forms before, so apparently they've already mastered the forms and can access the higher grade powers while in Base. This means once Gohan went Ssj2 he could always harness Ssj2 power in base form, when Goku went Ssj3 he could always harness Ssj3 power while in base form. I can say now, that is so so wrong.

You need to transform up a grade of Super Saiyan to Ascended Super Saiyan to harness further power. Base Saiyan doesn't even enter the Super Saiyan grades, I really can't stress enough how Ultra Super Saiyan power is impossible to harness in Base Saiyan form.

Broly · 02-28-2008

Consider this: There are six billion people on the planet, right? So if you times that by an average human power level of 10, you'll get 60,000,000,000. There are other people in the DB world that are a bit stronger than the average human, but not enough to tip the scales against Buu. Everyone knows Chibi Buu is above that level of power [60,000,000,000]. This is why it wouldn't make sense for Goten and Trunks or Gohan to not give their full power. In the manga, you hear Krillen say, "Take it all!". He's implying that each and every person gave most if not almost all they had to the Genki Dama. Again, not giving full power [Full power meaning 'Super Saiyan' in this case] would not only be dumb on their part, but it wouldn't make sense of Chibi Buu's defeat since the accumulated energy wouldn't even equate to Chibi Buu's pl. Gohan had to've given his full power, and in meaning, so would Trunks and Goten.

They cannot use their SSj power until they transform into the state. However, they can give their life force to the Genki Dama, which would be the same as giving all their power as a whole.

Jay · 02-29-2008

I understand the logic, in that Chi is Chi and should be always the same. But the Super Saiyan state comes with a Ssj mutliplier which mutliplies the attributes of a Saiyan such as power, speed, defence and agility.

There is a difference between transformations and power ups. Although Super Saiyan looks like a mere power up like Kaioken, it is infact a complete transformation.

If Super Saiyan was a power up and not a transformation then I would understand that may, just maybe, Ssj energy could be harnessed in Base Form. Ussj energy would still be impossible (because a Super Saiyan needs to focus their energy to rise up the Ssj grades while in Ssj), but Ssj maybe.

But Super Saiyan is a transformation, meaning Vegeta, Trunks and Gohan would have to be Super Saiyan to transfer their Ssj energy.

So when they give their "full power", it is the "full power" of a Base Saiyan form.
However Vegeta, Trunks, and Gohan had lost alot of energy during the battle with Broly, so without time to gather their energy back they could only give what they had left.
They were exhausted already, there body physically couldn't give more energy.

It's like pressups and situps, if you are out of energy due to exhaustion then you haven't got enough energy to give until you get the energy back... through proteins (or in the Z fighters case, regathering their energy to circulate their body which they didn't do, and they needed more time to do that anyway).

Broly · 03-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Green Dragon

I understand the logic, in that Chi is Chi and should be always the same. But the Super Saiyan state comes with a Ssj mutliplier which mutliplies the attributes of a Saiyan such as power, speed, defence and agility.

There is a difference between transformations and power ups. Although Super Saiyan looks like a mere power up like Kaioken, it is infact a complete transformation.

If Super Saiyan was a power up and not a transformation then I would understand that may, just maybe, Ssj energy could be harnessed in Base Form. Ussj energy would still be impossible (because a Super Saiyan needs to focus their energy to rise up the Ssj grades while in Ssj), but Ssj maybe.

But Super Saiyan is a transformation, meaning Vegeta, Trunks and Gohan would have to be Super Saiyan to transfer their Ssj energy.

So when they give their "full power", it is the "full power" of a Base Saiyan form.
However Vegeta, Trunks, and Gohan had lost alot of energy during the battle with Broly, so without time to gather their energy back they could only give what they had left.
They were exhausted already, there body physically couldn't give more energy.

It's like pressups and situps, if you are out of energy due to exhaustion then you haven't got enough energy to give until you get the energy back... through proteins (or in the Z fighters case, regathering their energy to circulate their body which they didn't do, and they needed more time to do that anyway).

The fact that Broly was defeated suggests the Zet Senshi transferred Super Saiyan energy to Goku, otherwise Broly's defeat just wouldn't fit right.

Android 19 absorbed Life Force from Goku in their fight, and Gero confirms that 19's power multiplied from the energy harvest. That means 19 derived Super Saiyan energy from Goku, because then there's no way he'd even be able to keep up with Super Saiyan Goku [sick]. If it was base form energy he absorbed from Goku he wouldn't be anywhere near a threat, just fodder. And because he did absorb Super Saiyan energy from Goku, that means Super Saiyan energy can be transferred from a base form to another.

Jay · 03-01-2008

Where was it stated that it was Super Saiyan energy?

SRP76 · 03-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Green Dragon

Where was it stated that it was Super Saiyan energy?

There is no "Super Saiyan energy". A fighter just has his own energy; Super Saiyan (and everything else) happens as a result of how the fighter uses that energy.

Broly · 03-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Green Dragon

Where was it stated that it was Super Saiyan energy?

That's the point. You should decide this for yourself since it's not particularly verbally stated, but implications of certain situations speak otherwise. If it wasn't Super Saiyan energy or energy from their full power supply, an impossiblity of Buu's defeat would be evident, and something so blatantly wrong would not sit well with me if I were to deem it as true.

@ SRP76 - Then how would you explain Chibi Buu's defeat from the Spirit Bomb? If Gohan didn't give his Ultimate power to the bomb [and if Gohan gave that power then that means Goten and Trunks lent their Super Saiyan power], there's no way Buu could've been destroyed.

~~BrolyisgaywithGoku~~ · 03-03-2008

Broly couldn't take on 2 or 3 Perfect Cells so how can he take on more than 3 Cell Jrs. IMPOSSSSIBLEEEE

Broly · 03-03-2008

Cell Jrs < Complete Cell. Therefore, beating 3-4 [perhaps even more] Cell Jrs is possible for an LSSj Broly.

SRP76 · 03-03-2008

He might handle one or two in Movie 10. More than that, and he'll probably get killed.

Broly · 03-04-2008

Do you think MSSj Gohan [Movie 10] is stronger than a Cell Jr? If your answer's yes, then there's no way Broly would loose to even 3 of them.

SRP76 · 03-04-2008

Maybe. I think Gohan was stronger than a Junior during the Cell Games, but not to the "OMG!!" degree that people like to claim. And Gohan's weaker than that later on, closing the gap down further.

Strong enough to overpower one, but close enough to where extra Juniors would actually make a difference.

02-28-2008	#123 (permalink)
Vizard /gc/ addict Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,194 Blog Entries: 6 Rep Power: 211	Re: Cell Junior versus Broly (movie 8) Broly, I didn't say SSj energy cannot be transfered overall. I said SSj energy cannot be transfered while in BASE form. Let alone "USSj". What makes you think the energy given by Goten and Trunks for the spirit bomb in Kid Buu saga was SSj energy? Also, since this is the non-canon forum, remember movie 7? I'm not sure but Goku states it that he cannot control the spirit bomb while in SSj form because of the rage. __________________ "Success is nothing more than taking advantage of an opportunity."

02-28-2008	#124 (permalink)
Jay (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Lloegr Posts: 3,508 Blog Entries: 2 Rep Power: 215	Re: Cell Junior versus Broly (movie 8) Super Saiyan energy cannot be harnessed unless in a Super Saiyan state, Ultra Super Saiyan energy cannont be harnessed unless in an Ultra Super Saiyan state. The only claim that suggests they can is that they reached those forms before, so apparently they've already mastered the forms and can access the higher grade powers while in Base. This means once Gohan went Ssj2 he could always harness Ssj2 power in base form, when Goku went Ssj3 he could always harness Ssj3 power while in base form. I can say now, that is so so wrong. You need to transform up a grade of Super Saiyan to Ascended Super Saiyan to harness further power. Base Saiyan doesn't even enter the Super Saiyan grades, I really can't stress enough how Ultra Super Saiyan power is impossible to harness in Base Saiyan form. __________________ "The game, you just lost it." \|[MFG Reputation Guide for Beginners]\|[-DEE DEE?-]\|

02-28-2008	#125 (permalink)
Broly The Desolate One Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: You think I give a shit about where you think I stay? Posts: 7,538 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 31	Re: Cell Junior versus Broly (movie 8) Consider this: There are six billion people on the planet, right? So if you times that by an average human power level of 10, you'll get 60,000,000,000. There are other people in the DB world that are a bit stronger than the average human, but not enough to tip the scales against Buu. Everyone knows Chibi Buu is above that level of power [60,000,000,000]. This is why it wouldn't make sense for Goten and Trunks or Gohan to not give their full power. In the manga, you hear Krillen say, "Take it all!". He's implying that each and every person gave most if not almost all they had to the Genki Dama. Again, not giving full power [Full power meaning 'Super Saiyan' in this case] would not only be dumb on their part, but it wouldn't make sense of Chibi Buu's defeat since the accumulated energy wouldn't even equate to Chibi Buu's pl. Gohan had to've given his full power, and in meaning, so would Trunks and Goten. They cannot use their SSj power until they transform into the state. However, they can give their life force to the Genki Dama, which would be the same as giving all their power as a whole. __________________ $E:\Avatars\I am [not] God.JPG$ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wS5xOZ7Rq8 Silence is golden, ducktape is silver, a bullet is bronze.

02-29-2008	#126 (permalink)
Jay (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Lloegr Posts: 3,508 Blog Entries: 2 Rep Power: 215	Re: Cell Junior versus Broly (movie 8) I understand the logic, in that Chi is Chi and should be always the same. But the Super Saiyan state comes with a Ssj mutliplier which mutliplies the attributes of a Saiyan such as power, speed, defence and agility. There is a difference between transformations and power ups. Although Super Saiyan looks like a mere power up like Kaioken, it is infact a complete transformation. If Super Saiyan was a power up and not a transformation then I would understand that may, just maybe, Ssj energy could be harnessed in Base Form. Ussj energy would still be impossible (because a Super Saiyan needs to focus their energy to rise up the Ssj grades while in Ssj), but Ssj maybe. But Super Saiyan is a transformation, meaning Vegeta, Trunks and Gohan would have to be Super Saiyan to transfer their Ssj energy. So when they give their "full power", it is the "full power" of a Base Saiyan form. However Vegeta, Trunks, and Gohan had lost alot of energy during the battle with Broly, so without time to gather their energy back they could only give what they had left. They were exhausted already, there body physically couldn't give more energy. It's like pressups and situps, if you are out of energy due to exhaustion then you haven't got enough energy to give until you get the energy back... through proteins (or in the Z fighters case, regathering their energy to circulate their body which they didn't do, and they needed more time to do that anyway). __________________ "The game, you just lost it." \|[MFG Reputation Guide for Beginners]\|[-DEE DEE?-]\|

03-01-2008	#128 (permalink)
Jay (24) Super Saiyan 4 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Lloegr Posts: 3,508 Blog Entries: 2 Rep Power: 215	Re: Cell Junior versus Broly (movie 8) Where was it stated that it was Super Saiyan energy? __________________ "The game, you just lost it." \|[MFG Reputation Guide for Beginners]\|[-DEE DEE?-]\|

03-03-2008	#131 (permalink)
~~BrolyisgaywithGoku~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 49 Rep Power: 0	Re: Cell Junior versus Broly (movie 8) Broly couldn't take on 2 or 3 Perfect Cells so how can he take on more than 3 Cell Jrs. IMPOSSSSIBLEEEE

03-03-2008	#132 (permalink)
Broly The Desolate One Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: You think I give a shit about where you think I stay? Posts: 7,538 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 31	Re: Cell Junior versus Broly (movie 8) Cell Jrs < Complete Cell. Therefore, beating 3-4 [perhaps even more] Cell Jrs is possible for an LSSj Broly. __________________ $E:\Avatars\I am [not] God.JPG$ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wS5xOZ7Rq8 Silence is golden, ducktape is silver, a bullet is bronze.

03-03-2008	#133 (permalink)
SRP76 (23) Final Warrior Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,341 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 37	Re: Cell Junior versus Broly (movie 8) He might handle one or two in Movie 10. More than that, and he'll probably get killed.

03-04-2008	#134 (permalink)
Broly The Desolate One Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: You think I give a shit about where you think I stay? Posts: 7,538 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 31	Re: Cell Junior versus Broly (movie 8) Do you think MSSj Gohan [Movie 10] is stronger than a Cell Jr? If your answer's yes, then there's no way Broly would loose to even 3 of them. __________________ $E:\Avatars\I am [not] God.JPG$ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wS5xOZ7Rq8 Silence is golden, ducktape is silver, a bullet is bronze.

03-04-2008	#135 (permalink)
SRP76 (23) Final Warrior Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,341 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 37	Re: Cell Junior versus Broly (movie 8) Maybe. I think Gohan was stronger than a Junior during the Cell Games, but not to the "OMG!!" degree that people like to claim. And Gohan's weaker than that later on, closing the gap down further. Strong enough to overpower one, but close enough to where extra Juniors would actually make a difference.