Senzu_Bean

But only mastering the SSj form you can have access to all the power that SSj form have.

There is no other way to attain SSj max. power if you don't mastered it.

burningvegeta

You can have all the powers in the regular Super Saiyan form. Having the bad effects suppressed by is what the Mastered state has is what it does. There still there. It all depends on how you execute the Ki.

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burningvegeta

<_<

Merging of topics.
Thanks Zer0.

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Senzu_Bean

No you can't! We never saw a mere SSj (pre-mastered) exhibit a power as great as when Goku or Gohan mastered the form. Even SSj 2nd and 3rd Grades are stronger than just a mere SSj which are weaker than a mastered SSj. Thus it can be implicate that only by mastering SSj form you can access to all the power that the form is capable.

king omega

Full Power to me would refer to Goku using all of his power in SSJ with out holding back, or the same for Vegeta.
Except for Goku that would only be before he went into the Time Chamber.
Where as Mastered SSJ is when Goku stayed in his SSJ form for several days.

So FPSSJ is any Super Sayian at his strongest, or in other words with out holding back.
and MSSJ is when a Super Sayian can easily maintain their state.

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Yesterday seems as though it never existed
Death greets me warm, now I will just say good-bye

Cyrax

Amazing Versus

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The Fight begins in Hell.

burningvegeta

Not really Mirai Trunks and Perfect Cell stated the Grade forms are just energy being pumped into the usres muscles. As I said its all about howyou execute your Ki. The effectiness of using the Mastered Super Saiyan state is only the more suitable form as you don't need to control the Ki your using to such a degree when you would a Grade or reuglar Super Saiyan. So in thoery the loss speed which was created in the bulid up of Ki could have been used elsewhere it wasn't necessarliy used just for strength or speed;as the mastedered state could have been used for both so could the regular state. I've come to the conclusion the Super Saiyan state made it impossible for Son Goku or any Super Saiyan to control their own Ki (properly).

It was difficult as speed could have been created within the Bukujutsu but it was not. The grades could have been mastered too, though Son Goku didn't bother. In thoery having a mastered grade would be alot more stronger than a regual Super Saiyan state that was mastered.

Although regaurdless of the state or the mastering full power would be acheiveable no matter the state, so it still stands Mastered should not be called Full Power as a Mastered Grade would have more power than it. Thus no regular Super Saiyan user has in thoery ever achieved Full Power Senzu.

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Senzu_Bean

There you have! A Super Saiyan not a Super Saiyan 2, 3 or 4. A SSj at his strongest is a MSSj.

Pure speculation. We never saw that happen or even if that could happen. It is the same saying you can mastered the SSj2 form though since we never saw anyone do it we can't use this.

Goku prefered mastering the SSj form instead of SSj Grades probably because it was physical impossible for someone master such form with immense chi dropped.

Madness

Madness' thoughts on this particular topic:

Full power is the full power that is capable of being expressed at that time. Full power is a relative term and always will be, as it cannot be grounded in any specific power level. Goku was at his full power against Freeza during their final battle on Namek; does that make him a FPSSJ? Of course not.

By my viewpoint, FPSSJ both cannot and does exist. Anybody using the SSJ state whilst being at their full power is using FPSSJ. Anytime anybody uses their full power they're FPKrillin, or FPTien.

Full power is relative.

Mastered Super Saiyan refers to the fact that the Saiyan has completely mastered the SSJ form. This may not even be the pinnacle of SSJ power, as all it means is that the Saiyan has mastered the form so that there are no downsides to it at all. Nothing states that the Saiyan has reached the top power of the state at all, just that they've "mastered" its downsides.

My 2p.

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remixremix

Why are you discussing this burning vegeta you already are the winner

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Madness

Only by the poll results.

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burningvegeta

"The flame of victory is not always present in the weary eyes of it's watchers, all they can see upon the battlefield is smoke. Concealing the two combatants still engaged in battle, even though you were certain the final blow had been cast". I haven't won anything yet...Senzu is a tough opponent indeed. I need more time, I'm constantly thinking this through. If for some reason I am wrong, I won't see it as a failure, only an enlightenment. Hence I will not see the poll results as a triumph either. Of course I believe my defense is solid, though if it were so, I wouldn't be taking so long to counter Senzu's last post.

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Senzu_Bean

Going by what the Manga or Anime show to us is that mastering the SSj form is the top of this form. You can't get more powerful within SSj form after mastered SSj except by training of course.

So?! I can't see the poll results since I didn't vote because I can't decide in which vote () though that doesn't mean anything since many people here don't know what they are talking about.

Why thank you! Looking forward to see your reply.

Madness

Except that nothing states it as being the pinnacle of the SSJ state, just that the downsides have been overcome. The MSSJ state could easily get stronger.

Well I've just put together a post about why it can't be called the "Full-Power Super Saiyan" and you haven't replied to those points yet.

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Senzu_Bean

You can't ascend more within SSj form. MSSj is the top of SSj form. The Manga or Anime never show us more powerful "inside" SSj form except for what it is the MSSj. Without training which isn't argument in here you can't get more powerful with SSj form if you already mastered it.

Sorry! Can you please tell me which post is it? Thanks!