apocalypse1280

So when Vegeta got up and stood right in front of Super 17's blast, and Goku had to come and tackle him to save his life, then right after that Vegeta passes out... yeah, I'd say Vegeta got beat up pretty bad. If Goku didn't knock him out of the way, Super 17 would have killed him.

Remixxx

maybe the difference in ss4 form is not that big but when not in ssj4 form it is......vegeta is a lot lot lot weaker then goku when he s not a ssj4 ....he cant turn into a ssj4 by himself and goku can

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Evil Vegeta

Yes, Goku did knock him outta the way, and Vegeta went on to faint. But, his damage wasn't any greater then everyone else's who fought #17 is what I'm suggesting. It was similiar to when Vegeta knocked Goku out.

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apocalypse1280

It. Is. Because. Vegeta. Does. Not. Have. A. Tail. I'm baffled that you keep repeating the same senseless nonsense over and over. But, since talking to you is like talking to a broken record, I'm done. Fuckin' A!

apocalypse1280

Well Vegeta fought harder and longer against Super 17 then the others did, besides Goku, so yeah I'd say his damage was worse then everyone else's. And what does Vegeta knocking Goku out have to do with anything? Vegeta didn't get knocked out, he passed out from getting his ass kicked.

Evil Vegeta

I think Vegeta was likely as damaged as he was when he fought Goku as a majin, that's why I brought it up. To make a long story short; Vegeta was not as damaged as you implied in your earlier posts. If you think I'm off, then that's fine.

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apocalypse1280

No your right, I did exaggerate some. The point is "remixremix" said that Goku was "almost dead" when he fought Super 17... even though he had enough strength to not only hit Super 17 with a Dragon Fist, but then finish him off with a Kamehemeha. Vegeta on the other hand, had enough energy to pass out. So point being is Vegeta was a lot worse/closer to death then Goku was against Super 17. I understand 18 intervened and gave Goku an opening, but the fact is that Goku still had some power left in his reserves, Vegeta absolutely did not and would have been a goner no matter what.

Remixxx

Vegeta realy wasnt hurt tht bad against 17....and goku was almost death ,he would be death if super 17 death ball hitted him,then against baby he would be aslo death if kaioshin didnt saved him,then he fought longer in ssj4 form and probbaly controlls it a lot better then vegeta......OVERALL I WAS JUST TRYING TO SAY THAT GOKU IS STRONGER THEN SSJ4 VEGETA

-I understand that he cant transform if he doesnt have the tail....so thats why he can do it by himslef and im sure even if he somehows regain his tail he definitlly wouldnt have the power to transform into a ssj4

-If you don't have your tail , he needs to have that ray gun fired at him to transfrom into SSJ4

-Even IF Vegeta had his tail, he was not powerful enough to go SSJ4 without the ray gun

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apocalypse1280

You obviously don't read/pay attention to what other people say, even though it's fact. I never said Goku wouldn't have died had he been hit with that blast from Super 17, but Vegeta would have died also, and was fighting longer. You're very strange, it's not hard to see that. Also you ignore the fact that Goku had energy left, and Vegeta did not, thats why he passed out.

Everything else you said about Vegeta is your own opinion, none of it has been stated. Not only that but you said the same thing 3 times, in 3 different ways. Vegeta was worse off then Goku against Super 17, period.

Evil Vegeta

Oh, that's what you meant. Well, I agree with you. Vegeta was far worse then Goku was, because Goku wasn't even damaged that much. His little explosion attack weakened him, but not enough to keep him down.

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apocalypse1280

Exactly.

Remixxx

your strange too definitlly....wow vegeta was really hurt against 17 really .....he was hurt as much as trunks majuub and the rest...goku was hurt way more then the rest he was only able to perform the kame wave again because 18 gave him some time to gain his energy back...and that was in the show

-It s stated that he cant go ssj4 without the ray gun and even if he somehow had the tail im sure he wouldnt be able to turn into a ssj4 because he was a ssj2 and goku was a ssj3 so he has a big gap to catch

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Senzu_Bean

remixremix I advise you to write well because I had a hardly time to read your posts.

Here we go! SSj4 Goku and SSj4 Vegeta are equal. SSj4 Goku = SSj4 Vegeta. Or even SSj4 Goku is equal to SSj3 Vegeta and vice-versa. Got it?! Let me explain why.

Goku ascended to Golden Oozaru because:

1. He had a tail;

2. He could go SSj3;

3. He absorbed 17 million or more zeno units of Bruits Ray from Earth.

With all these three stuffs Goku could ascend into SSj4. What about Vegeta? How he went SSj4?

1. He didn't have a tail;

2. He couldn't go SSj3;

Vegeta haven't two essential requirements for go Oozaru and even Golden Oozaru. So how he ascended to SSj4?

Like we saw happen to Bebi, a Saiyan doesn't require a tail to go Oozaru if he absorbs Bruits Rays directly into his body. Also remember when Goku and Bebi knock out both at the same time like a double K.O.? Bebi absorbed even more Bruits Rays which make him got healed and stronger. This will be essential for why Vegeta ascend into SSj4.

But before let come back to Goku. After ascend into SSj4 Goku received two major power-ups due absorbed energy from Goten, Gohan, Trunks and Pan the first time, which put him at the level of Bebi (post-absorbed even more Bruits Rays). The second time when fighting Yin Xing Long (pre-absorbed Dragon Ball's) Goku received his second power-up, this time Gohan, Goten and Trunks are the givers of energy (something that we can conclude from this is SSj4 form can only receive energy from Saiyans) which put him above Yin Xing Long level and far greater than the first time he transforms in SSj4.

Now why and how Vegeta could keep up with SSj4 Vegeta just after transformed into SSj4? First why they are equal is because to perform the fusion dance both person have to be exactly the same power level. Since there isn't nothing suggesting Goku lower his level when doing the fusion, we must presume they are equal. Also when both show their power to Yin Xing Long (post-absorbed Dragon Ball's) nobody claim Goku was stronger than Vegeta. All were astonished by their powers.

But how Vegeta got equal to Goku after received major power-ups? The answer are the Bruits Rays. Just like Bebi after aborbed a second time Bruits Rays, Vegeta absorbed a lot of Bruits Rays which make him even go into SSj3 power and then able to ascend into Golden Oozaru and then SSj4.

Another interesting thing is looks like going Oozaru through the way of absorbed directly Bruits Rays into the body don't bear the same effect as going Oozaru. Because when Vegeta return to base after transform into SSj4, his tail disappear as well his ability to go SSj4 contrary to Goku.

Sorry for the long post by I need to post this.

Remixxx

well most of the things you are right...but when vegeta loose his tail his power probbaly also dissapear

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