Unruly_Saiyajin

YouTube - vegetto turns ssj2

What is he doing turning SSJ2? You can clearly see the lightning surrounding him but yet he's supposedly only SSJ.

YouTube - DBGT - Vegeta Turns Into A Super Saiyan 4 (First Time)

I have a lot to say specifaclly about this video. First the beginning was funny (where is that woman! Took you long enough, did you take a nap before you came?) Okay second, Bulma calls herself "Vegeta's Princess" also very funny. However, if SSJ4 is supposed to be the strongest how did vegeta hold onto goku? Vegeta was only in regular Oozaru and goku was SSJ. Goku could have broken away easy. Gohan says "I have gotta learn how to do that" which hints at him training harder to become SSJ4, however since the series ended we will never know for sure. Last thing is the very end...Bulma and Chi Chi were fighting over who looks better in SSJ4, well who do you think looks better?

YouTube - Vegeta turning SSJ Vs.

YouTube - Goku turning Super Saiyan First time Japanese-3-Versions Vs.

YouTube - DBZ - Gohan Turns SSJ for the First time (JAP)


Which do you think is better? Vegeta, Goku, or Gohan tuning SSJ for the first time?

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Senzu_Bean

What the hell? You start talking about Vegetto, then SSj4 Vegeta and then SSj Vegeta, Goku and Gohan?

Unruly_Saiyajin

Just some things to discuss answer anyone of them....I had some thoughts on my mind and I thought I would condense them all in one thread...feel free to answer anyone of them.

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Senzu_Bean

Okay then.

Nope! Vegetto only went SSj. Not higher to SSj2. As you can see the lightning is only present when he power up to the form. It isn't present after powering up.

IIRC Darkprince says he had a sketch of SSj Vegetto and SSj2 Vegetto (made by Toriyama of course) thus by that Vegetto is clearly SSj.

IMO I think Goku didn't wanted to harm Vegeta since he thought Vegeta wasn't controlling himself.

Vegeta! He looks so bad ass in that form.

We never see Vegeta turning for the first time in Manga but even with Anime transformation I go with Goku's.

Jay

Actually he isn't turning Ssj2, thats the first time ever that Vegeto (a brand new saiyan) could turn Ssj. He could bypass the emotion part and use only his power to transform for the first time ever, but he'ld have to go to Ssj first.

The lightening does not remain in the aura and the hair remains Ssj1, so the lightening is just a power surge that occured because of Vegeto's sudden increase in power.

Anyway I am one to theorize that Vegeto went to the 2nd grade of Ssj, but that's a different debate.

First of all, its GT (or General Trash) but i'll try to apply logic to it.

Goku probably couldn't break out because the PL of the Oozaru is mutliplied from Vegeta's base form which means it's totally off the scale of all other Oozaru's seen. It isn't known if Ssj4 Goku is actually stronger than Vegeta Oozaru in GT, so it's possible that Vegeta as an Oozaru in GT is stronger than Ssj4 Goku. I personally don't think so, I just think that due to the circumference of Oozaru's Vegeta's fist, it was too large in terms of size for a power even of Ssj4 Goku to break out of (considering Vegeta's Oozaru GT PL is probably VERY high).

Oh yeah and by the way, that entire scene is invalid anyway because Vegeta knew how to ration his behavior while in Oozaru in DBZ upon instantly transforming, so GT fails again.

Perhaps Gohan could reach Golden Oozaru and master it to Ssj4, who knows... we won't, it'l never happen now so it's left to the fans opinion. I don't believe half blooded saiyans can go Ssj4 so I don't think Gohan can either.

Anyway Gohan might not have been referring to the actual transformation when he said that, if you look closely... he said that when Goku and Vegeta were manipulating their ki to cause a whirlwind effect.

Also I think Goku looks better because Vegeta looks like a born again rocker in a mid life crisis.


Defiantly Vegeta, he is the better character IMO and his transformation progress was far more epic... great music too.

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Unruly_Saiyajin

Well, yah I agree with all of you...great reponses...you both get rep.

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Senzu_Bean

Are you saying he couldn't back to base?

Because of the mass increase when he is powering up? Well if you notice better you will see that he after turn into SSj his muscles decrease to base size form.


It is impossible for Oozaru Vegeta be stronger than SSj4 Goku. Oozaru is weaker than Golden Oozaru which SSj4 is stronger. Vegeta was probably weaker at base than Goku so that theory can't happen. So I will stick with my theory.

That isn't a plothole. Vegeta stated that he was kidding after transform into Oozaru. Nothing more! The reason is why he was kidding? 0_o

Agree in every points.

Unruly_Saiyajin

What, i'm saying is when Oozaru vegeta grabs SSJ4 goku why couldn't Goku break his grip...It wouldn't have hurt Vegeta it would have just broken his grip on Goku.

P.S. It was pretty obvious Vegeta was joking...if you saw the Saiyan Saga you know that Vegeta can control himself perfectly in Oozaru. Anyways he specifically states
" I will not let myself ever be controlled by this Primal form" which supports my theory to call SSJ4 Primal Saiyajin Form, ( even thoough he was talking about Oozaru)

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Senzu_Bean

Seeing how the situation was catastrophic before Vegeta turn Oozaru Goku probably saw that now with Vegeta in "the bad side" it was pointless fight more. That or he didn't wan to fight with his friend.

It is the same thing when Gohan and Goten attacked Pan or when Gohan almost killed Pan. She could attack but prefer not to.

That is dub crap.

Unruly_Saiyajin

Okay whatever just saying that Primal Saiyajin could make sense. Overall, SSJ4 still makes sense becuase it is easy to remember and simple to spell so whatever.

If Toei didn't screw this up it probably would have a better name.

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Jay

Thanks

No not exactly, the idea behind the fusion is that Vegeto is a completely new saiyan. Meaning he probably could go Ssj2 (because Goku and Vegeta can) but he'l have to transform to Ssj first, seeing as it's his first ever transformation ever. Ssj2 might be hard to reach as the first ever transformation.

Possibly, but also due to the name. Vegeto calls himself 'Super Vegeto' while Vegeta calls himself 'Super Vegeta' when he was in 2nd grade.

Which may suggest the Vegeta side of Vegeto suggesting 2nd grade.

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Senzu_Bean

I understand the first point though the second I can't buy it. Simple because Gotenks also entitle himself as Super Gotenks. Also SSj Grades are dropped (by obvious reasons) at the Cell Games so reused it them again more than 7 years later isn't the smart move.

Jay

I considered it a reason because Vegeto is half Vegeta, and thus the Vegeta side would only call himself Super Vegeta is he was 2nd grade, so it leads me to believe that the Vegeta half of Vegeto only called himself Super Vegeto for that reason. Because I don't believe Goku ever referred to himself as Super Goku.

But I see what you mean about post-Cell Games.

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