Majuub

You don't need to see Gogeta to know Vegeto would be more powerful, you just have to see Gotenks and Vegeto to compare the two methods. ''Wow I didn't know the potaras were so powerful'' means that much power was unexpected, he expected power but what kind of power, you can't be supirse unless you compare the method to something similar, that's the exact same thing for the fusion. He already saw the fusion dance and its power, since the potara fusion is something similar he expected something similar, only, he stated that method was more powerful than what he expected. What did he expected? You can't say you're suprised unless you had expectations and if you want to have expectations of something you have to have experienced or saw something similar in the past, in that case it's the fusion dance. If I say: Wow I didn't know the SSJ3 was so powerful'' it means I expected something and I must have a basis to expect something, the only basis Kibitoshin had was the fusion dance and nothing else.

The evidence is there, if the potara fusion was stated to be superior it means better, therefore it means Vegeto is better than Gogeta. What means better in DBZ stronger right? Longer doesn't mean better since if Vegeto lasts forever longer it's a disadvantage. So Vegeto is superior to Gogeta and is superiority has nothing to do with him lasting forever since it's more of a handicap than an advantage. No matter which way you look at it superior just means better and more powerful than you expected just mean stronger than what you expected and in that case what Kibitoshin expected was a fusion therefore the only signifcative fusion he saw was Gotenks and he can't compare the potaras to nothing else. There is evidence and facts to support Vegeto is stronger than Gogeta while there is not a single clue to support Gogeta is stronger or equal to Vegeto. The balance favors Vegeto over Gogeta in every aspects.

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Gangsta SabZ

All of the above is speculation. You type a statement and then speculate it's meaning. There's no iconic statement in there. I'm not repeating myself again.

Ryat!

There is absolutely no way you can prove Vegeto to be more powerful than Gogeta. Kibitoshin didn't witness Gogeta's emergence, so there's no possible way you could know what his views between the fusion techniques are after the events in Movie 12.

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Majuub

It was a speculation Kibitoshin saw the fusion dance? It was a speculation they stated the potara fusion was superior? It was a speculation they were amazed by the power of the potaras? It was no speculations, the only speculation is the fact you ignore they stated Vegeto was superior to Gogeta.

Superior, it was stated the potara fusion was. Since they didn,t say in which domain he was superior, why do you speculate it's only the time limit since it isn't necerssarily an advantage. Superior just means better, since no domainw as given to define Vegeto's superiority what superior means in that case? If I just say I'm superior to you in hockey, it just means I have all around better abilities than you, if I say I'm superior in speed it means I am faster than you. They just said Vegeto was superior to Gogeta, what means superior? Like I stated, it just means all around he is better. Since the point of the fusion was to make a powerful warrior, the only thing they were refering to was their power.

You are making speculations over what superior means when it means better, you just ignore it since you prefer Gogeta, it's a biased opinion.

When they say the potara method is superior it means it will create better results. There is everything to suggest Gogeta>Vegeto you just blantantly ignore stated facts.

Ryat, there is nothing to suggest Kibitoshin doesn't know the fusion dance, if such a comment was made it was to give a clue over which type was better than the other.

Think about it for a second, why don't they just make Goku and Vegeta fuse using the fusion dance instead of creating another method. The point of the potara fusion is to create an overall better fighter than that of the metomorese dance. A fusion created by gods or a fusion created by wimps which one will create the mighiest warrior?

I have canon basis and you have none, don't say I'm using speculations because everything I said about the superiority of Vegeto was stated. They just said ''superior'' period, they didn't say where and why if I use it as a general term, it just means all around I am better.

We have canon basis to support Vegeto is stronger than Gogeta while we have nothing to assume or think otherwise. Why create 2 methods if they have the same results?

Honestly, stop being biased over that fact, the only point is, no matter which way you look at it, Vegeto and Gogeta will still be the most powerful fighters in any given conditions.

I have a good idea to settle this once and for all, just look for superiority in the dictionnary and it will tell everything Vegeto as on Gogeta.

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Gangsta SabZ

Once again you don't get it.

You don't know if he meant superior all around or in certain ways. You speculate that he means superior in every way, when that wasn't stated. Potarra is easier to use and lasts forever. I believe that's what he meant by superior unless you prove otherwise. Which you can't. Elder Kai's pride my be one of the other reasons he wanted Goku to use potarra.

Fact is, you cannot prove Vejito > Gogeta because the statements you throw at me have various potential meanings, and you choose to believe certain ones. You're just going to repeat yourself and get nowhere, unless you give me a solid fact.

And me being biased? You obviously prefer potarra as you say the dance was created by "wimps".

Majuub

He said superior in a general term, the one who speculates is you. Various meanings? No they have no various meanings, they had a general term and speculation isn't open. Just search superior in the dictionnary just see why was Kibitoshin amazed by the potara powers and just try to know why create another method of fusion that creates the exact same results. He didn't say in which area Vegeto was superior, he said superior period. It was in general that's all, you're the one who speculated he was refering to the time limit which isn't an advantage judging the context. We just have to know what superior means as a general term and what being impressed means there is no need to dig into speculations. In fact, everything suggest Vegeto is superior to Gogeta, the fact to prove is if Gogeta is equal or stronger. A biased opinion is what causes the discussion to go on since the answer is obvious.

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Gangsta SabZ

All that can be done is speculation. Who knows if he even meant it in a general term. He never said power so it is you that is speculating that he meant superior generally, when he MAY not have. Yes I'm speculating, because that's all that can be done. Fact is he never said "more powerful outcome". He said superior... and what? That does not narrow anything down at all. He didn't elaborate at all... so you assume he means in every way, but you can't prove it to me. Superior is the adjective which was not followed up. My arguement is that Vejito > Gogeta was not entirely stated, as there are various other meanings by the terms used by Elder Kai (even though you think if someone says superior without adding what is actually better, it means all around... which is not the case).

It's better to agree to disagree, even though you haven't proven that Elder Kai meant superior in power.

Majuub

Exactly what I meant, I took superior without digging in the term, I just took it the way it was. Superior just means better or higher ranked, I just took it as the definition of the word means, I didn't speculate, you said I am when I don't since I took the information the way it was given and I didn't bend it to fit my preferences. You don't have to state literally something to give the answer, it's like with Chibi Buu wh was never stated to be weaker than Shin and he actually was, logic proved that he was weaker.

So basically, Vegeto is superior to Gogeta but for no reason, if he is superior what can be the reasons to assume he is superior? If Kibitoshin was amazed by the potaras power, why was he amazed, you never answerd these questions.

Now that's ironic, you were the one who said I was only making speculations, now you openly admit that you're makin speculations.

Prove they didn,t mean superior as a general term, when no further information is given we must take it the way it is said. If he just said superior without anything else, just look for superior in the dictionnary and that's what he meant. You can't speculate over a general statement(It was one since nothing else was aid) If I say: I am smarter than you, it's a general statement meaning overall I am more intelligent than you, you mustn't try to guess if I'm talking about being smarter street-wise or book-wise, it's just a general term. Don't speculate over a general term, if he had said: Vegeto is superior on some areas, then speculation would be openend but since he just said superior period speculation is not opened. You just ignore that fact over and over again with just saying: ''We don't know what he meant by superior''. Exactly, we don't know, all we know is Vegeto is superior, I am always saying this and you can't contradict it. Don't go and state me your speculatons because the word superior has a definition and you can't bend it to fit your description. If you weren,t so biased this discussion would have ended a while ago.

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Blue Flame

Wow Majuub, that was deep! i could not write a paragraph like that at all and if i were too i would feel smart but i feel fine the way i am!

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The Green Dragon

If people are still struggling with Vegeto vs Gogeta then just compare Super Buu w/Gohan with Super Janemba.

Not that you need to.

Vegeto is more powerful.

Potara is a stronger method of fusion than the dance
FACT

The fact that Vegeta and Goku were rivals balanced out the Potara fusion perfectly, when the dance just fuses them because their power levels are similar (doesnt fuse them perfectly if they are rivals)
FACT

Vegeto didn't even have to try in his battle, no effort at all, and had the upper hand
FACT

Potara is a fusion method from the highest gods in the universe while the fusion dance is not
FACT



We can break it down even further

Super Janemba can overpower Ssj3 Goku?
FACT

Ssj3 Goku and Ultimate Gohan are said to be pretty much similar in terms of power?
FACT

Ultimate Gohan got SLAUGHTERED pretty much when Super Buu absorbed Gotenks?
FACT

Super Buu w/Gohan is STRONGER and more powerful than when he aborbed Ssj3 Gotenks?
FACT


So what I am trying to bring across is that Super Janemba was probably around the same level as Super Buu w/Ssj3 Gotenks.

Gogeta > Super Janemba = Super Buu w/Ssj3 Gotenks > Ssj3 Goku

Super Buu absorbed with Gohan is stronger than if he absorbed with Ssj3 Gotenks

Gogeta = Super Buu w/Gohan > Super Janemba = Super Buu w/Ssj3 Gotenks > Ssj3 Goku

Vegeto didn't even have to try to make Super Buu w/Gohan look like a fool in combat

Vegeto > Gogeta = Super Buu w/Gohan > Super Janemba = Super Buu w/Ssj3 Gotenks > Ssj3 Goku

Madness

Actually, Gohan was stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

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The Green Dragon

That's why I said they were pretty much similar rather than exactly the same.

as in it was pretty much Gohan's version of Ssj3 but with the hidden potential he has always had as a kid.

Ultimate Gohan is basically Gohan's rough equivilant to Ssj3.

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"TGD"

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Un amsera hon ffagod butain dicked acha 'm snatch."

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Ultimate_Gohan

Ultimate Gohan >>> SS3 Goku.

And no, it's not equivalent but way stronger than SS3. Goku SS3>/= Kid Buu, Majin Buu while Ultimate Gohan >>> Super Buu.
As simple as that.

The Green Dragon

Your diagram used to illustrate your point is sort of confusing. To be fair, Majin Buu with Super Saiyan 3 Goku absorbed would be more powerful than Super Buu as well. So that diagram doesn't explain much.

Your diagram suggests that Ssj3 Goku is just stronger than Kid Buu who is on par with Majin Buu w/Gohan, so Ssj3 Goku would be stronger than Majin Buu w/Gohan (therefore much stronger than Ultimate Gohan alone).

Vegeto is said to be around that of Ssj3 Goku, and he took care of Majin Buu w/Gohan far too easily.

If Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Ssj3 Goku then the diagram should go more like

Majin Buu w/Gohan >>> Ultimate Gohan >>> Super Buu = Ssj3 Goku >/= Kid Buu

Yours went like this

Ssj3 Goku >/= Kid Buu >/= Majin Buu w/Gohan >>> Ultimate Gohan

It should really go more like this

Super Vegeto > Vegeto
Vegeto = Ssj3 Goku
Vegeto > Majin Buu w/Gohan
Majin Buu w/Gohan > Super Buu
Majin Buu w/Gotenks > Ultimate Gohan

Vegeto = Ssj3 Goku > Majin Buu w/Gohan > Ultimate Gohan

IMO

Plus the fact that Goku is older and more stronger than Gohan, and a pure blooded Saiyan which means more suited to combat and whos power level rises more quickly. The only reason Goku held back in the Cell Games was to give Gohan a chance to ascend.

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"TGD"

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Un amsera hon ffagod butain dicked acha 'm snatch."

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Ultimate_Gohan

Kid Buu on par with Super Buu w/ Gohan?? I stopped reading your post since I saw that.