ANB

Apology accepted.

Boo isn't the only one capable of travelling between dimensions. With instant transmission, Goku can go to hell, heaven, Enma's palace, and Supereme Kai's wolrd effortlessly. Kibito can go anywhere in the universe with a more powerfull version. The Kami's appointed over planets (specifically Kami-Sama from Earth) can warp between Enma's palace and Earth with no effort whatsoever.

Dende, the new Kami, also confirmed Piccolo's statement. He agreed that it would be impossible to escape after the door is sealed/destroyed/staying in longer than 24 hours. As a side note, Piccolo had merged with the former Kami 7 years ago to get stronger. He certainly is qualified to make a judgement about the Time dimension's qualities since he can tap into Kami's mind and memories.

Why Piccolo was so surprised is that Boo did it with chi alone--no magical abilities or warping between planes. It's up to you to agree with my theory that the Kekkei would not be very challenging (if at all) for Super Boo. I've already laid down the facts that both are dimensional barriers separating two parallel worlds. Nothing in the manga suggests the Kekkei has some sort of special/magical quality making it drastically different from a regular barrier (it's just tougher). The entire barrier itself was actually man-made by Reikai as mentioned by Raizen before his demise. In fact, every once in a while there are natural-distortions and demons grab at these opportunities to slip through. It seems to be, imho, even less stable than the ROSAT. In the viz translation, Sakkyo specifically mentions the word "tunnel" when describing his dream of allowing stronger demons the opportunity to travel.

__________________

Old Rai

I seriously am sorry. You've been pretty good natured so far, and I had no right to demand those sort of things. If someone was talking like that to me, I'd think they'd be calling me a liar, but I know you're not lying. I'm thinking about dropping this argument myself. I think we are just going to go around in circles, as we clearly view both the DBZ and YYH worlds very differently, based on what we've read. It explains the divergence of our views and also why we both can't compare the worlds just between the two of us. I will say again that I deal with probabilities and not absolute. It is possible for the view you have of the DBZ and YYH worlds to exist and work. Otherwise, you wouldn't be saying it. But to me, given the evidence I have seeen from DBZ and YYH, I find that it is unlikely for the two worlds to exist like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB Boo isn't the only one capable of travelling between dimensions. With instant transmission, Goku can go to hell, heaven, Enma's palace, and Supereme Kai's wolrd effortlessly. Kibito can go anywhere in the universe with a more powerfull version. The Kami's appointed over planets (specifically Kami-Sama from Earth) can warp between Enma's palace and Earth with no effort whatsoever.

The only problem I had with this is that those people were all capable of teleporting, which is a different power altogether. But it serves the same purpose in that it overcomes dimensional limits.

Kami-Sama is also capable of getting out of the room. In fact, Kami-Sama was the one who originally built the original tunnel to the ROSAT. Piccolo obviously didn't have Kami-Sama's magic powers of teleportation or building dimensional tunnels, or else he wouldn't have said it was impossible to escape.

It was also supposedly impossible to get to the World of the Kai's, but that was proven wrong too. As you said, Goku could do it, as could Kibito. The World of the Kai's example should show that one thing I think should be taken into account is the people who it was said to. I don't think it was said to Kibito and Kami-Sama that it was impossible to get out of the ROSAT. Kami-Sama showed he could create ways of getting out and Kibito never went into the room to begin with.

It was said to Goku, however. So far, out of the people you showed to me, Goku should be capable of getting out of the ROSAT if it is just about overcoming dimensional limits. However, he was told before the Cell games, before it was even known that his power of IT could be used to travel between dimensions. Or in some other cases, like late DB, it was before he had the power of IT. I doubt that they would have said it to Goku if they knew he could travel between dimensions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB Why Piccolo was so surprised is that Boo did it with chi alone--no magical abilities or warping between planes. It's up to you to agree with my theory that the Kekkei would not be very challenging (if at all) for Super Boo. I've already laid down the facts that both are dimensional barriers separating two parallel worlds. Nothing in the manga suggests the Kekkei has some sort of special/magical quality making it drastically different from a regular barrier (it's just tougher). The entire barrier itself was actually man-made by Reikai as mentioned by Raizen before his demise. In fact, every once in a while there are natural-distortions and demons grab at these opportunities to slip through. It seems to be, imho, even less stable than the ROSAT. In the viz translation, Sakkyo specifically mentions the word "tunnel" when describing his dream of allowing stronger demons the opportunity to travel.

The Kekkai was stated to have a magical quality, and was said to be a "very special spell". Unlike all other Kekkai's shown in YYH, it ignores brute strength. The only thing power it seemed to let through naturally was Seikouki, but that was because it's holy nature allows it to resonate with the Spirit Realm's techniques. Even then, it was unaffected by it. It could stop anything stronger than an A class and could not be affected by any normal human or demon powers. One of the special powers of Kuwabara's Jigen Tou was "the ability to destroy spells" of any kind. The Jigen Tou also had the ability to make entire dimensions cease to exist ("dispel dimensions") and also had the ability to cut through anything, regardless of it's nature. It's the number one reason why Sensui avoided touching Kuwabara's sword, as if Kuwabara could hit him with it, Sensui would die. The fact that it was shown to cut through dimensional limits, magical force fields and even people far stronger than Kuwabara shows that it could cut the Kekkai because it could cut through anything. Super Boo's dimensional ripping did not possess these qualities of the Jigen Tou, which makes be believe it cannot pierce the Kekkai, as it is not comparable to the Jigen Tou.

The barrier was made by the SDF. That is why they were able to repair it. Also, the dimensional distortions that allow demons to slip through only allow D class and lesser beings to slip through. Although there are great dimensional distortions every couple of centuries, the Kekkai prevents the most powerful demons from going through. Sakyo could have also been referring to C and B class demons when he was referring to the "stronger demons", who were currently unable to get to the Human Realm because the small natural tunnels only allow D class demons through. Koenma even stressed that if the tunnel was completed and C and B class demons could come and go when they liked, that would mean the end of humanity. Just remember that Toguro originally approved of Sakyo's plan because it meant he could finally go to the Demon Realm to find stronger opponents, as the small distortions to the Human Realm only allowed D class demons through.

As you know, the Kekkai lets anything B class or lower through, so I don't see how those natural dimensional distortions proof anything about the barrier's strength.

Old Rai

^ I've decided on it. I'm gonna drop the issue on whether or not Super Boo can break the Kekkai barrier. ANB, please feel free to reply to my post above, as I'd appreciate your input on that, given your understanding of the two worlds. Just don't expect a reply on that particular issue, as I have chosen to drop it on my part. I'm actually looking into something Nefelpitou-sama got me onto (stuff regarding the Jigen Tou and Volume 19 of the YYH Manga).

I honestly didn't know you had exams coming up. I apologise if I was the cause of any unneccesary distraction. Good luck with your exams, ANB!

ANB

Damn, so sad it needs to end now. If SS2 Vegeto (remember this guy's name) or G-Lord were hear we'd probably be up at 2 in the morning with monsters XD

Just a couple points, and then I take my leave:

1-About escaping ROSAT, to leave Son Goku would need to lock onto a chi-target before using instant transmission. Unfortunately, even Goku's teleportation is impossible because the ROSAT is a seperate dimension. When he and Gohan trained just before the Cell-Games, he noted that "you can't feel Cell or Vegeta's ki while your in here". The two worlds are completely seperate. Kibito probably can't go their either, even tho he doesn't need to "lock-on" to a chi target, simply because he can only move within the bounds of the mortal and immortal universe. He never stated he could warp between dimensions (Still, I can't use the because-of-this-and-by-default arguement and take this is fact; he still might be able to do it).

2-Piccolo and Kami used to be the same person. When they wanted to become the guardian of Earth, there was some corruption in their soul and Kami decided it was better to absolve himself of his evil nature (literally splitting into two Nameks).

Anyway, Piccolo died but reincarnated. If either of them die without releasing an offspring with their essence in it they both die. They share the same soul. When Piccolo jr. finally reunites with the aged Kami he gains all his memories. In other words: Piccolo's statement about the ROSAT either A) Came from Kami's memery bank or B) Did not contradict what Kami knew. He would not say something as bold as you CAN'T escape.

The thing with Super Boo and Itsuki is that the barrier is naturally occuring and even heals itself in the seamingly impossible even that it is distorted. When everyone trained there [Rosat], their power-levels were in the hundred millions which would make them literally millions of times stronger than an ordinary human [power-level 5]. Yet when they train, the Room is so tough it remains intact. Even from the intensity of Super Boo's fight with Gotenks (the former of which was not using his full-power) it remained stable. But when Super Boo began to uncork his vast reserves and screamed, he forced the barrier open with raw-power.

The Rosat is a natural barrier that did not even budge until a powerfull beast, who's power-level is probably in the hundred-billions, unleashed his chi. Furthermore, when he escaped out the hole he made, SSJ Gotenks and Piccolo tried to do the same thing. They raised their chi and screamed but couldn't even put a dent (The exacting wording is "not even a pin-hole"). Boo is not astronomically stronger than SSJ Gotenks. What I'm getting at is that the Rosat barrier is naturally occuring and seperates two entirely different dimension; so blocked-off you can't even feel chi on the other side. The dimensional tunnel between Makai and Ningenkai seperates, again: two entirely different worlds. But there is reason to believe it's weaker: because there are random, sporadic openings that accidentally let a few weaker demons through. Not only that, but it's artificial. Raizen stated that Rekai created it 700 years ago and that demons could freely go to Ningenkai at their own leisure. Imho, the real deal is far more authentic than something artificial. Take diamonds for example. A fake diamond can be scratched, chipped, and even broken. Real ones do not break at all and are naturally found in their own shapes and proportions.

So Rosat's barrier is a real diamond and Makai's barrier is a fake (literally if we want to get technical). Makai's barrier is shown to be less stable by the sporadic openings, and as Sakkyo is visualizing his dream we can see engineers actually taking the barrier down with science (he mentions an artificial one costs 20 billion dollars but those are for weaker portals). The kekkei is simply the higher level to match higher demons. The weaker barriers are for weaker ones (They go hand-in-hand). Yes, I read the manga and it says part of the kekkei is a magical "spell" of sorts but it's still man-made. Not only that, but to claim S-classes are stronger simply because THEY can't break the barrier is presuming that they are stronger [than the compared character in question]. And lastly, about the Jigen Tou, the translation is "dimension sword". Sensui frequently mentions "I need someone who can cut dimensions". The Kekkei barrier was also frequently and explicitly labeled as a "barrier". So even though I know it has magical qualities to it, I still believe this makes it synonomous with the thought Boo can break dimensional barriers (which the Kekkei is) and Kuwabara's sword is sought after because it's a "dimension cutter" than that means Boo can break the Kekkei.

But mayn, that was interesting. Hopefully you'll be able to take a gander at this before your gone. I bid you farewell!

__________________

Nefelpitou

Mreow! I'm back! I'm done with the Boddhidharma now. I've been studying Kundalini yoga now. The link between Sensui and kundalini is this: the dot (bindi) on his head signifies the chakra that is also the exit point for kundalini energy, which is instrumental in opening the Kudanlini chakra. This is the seventh and final chakra. Once this chakra opens, like the Boddhidharma, the self is united with the universal consciousness. Although this varies, it is generally agreed to be Brahman, which is very similar to the Dharmakaya and God. This would explain why Sensui could become one with the force of nature in the universe and also why he had Seikouki, as it was a divine form of energy. If he was born with a bindi, this already signifies great potential to open the Kundalini chakra and attain godhood.

If Sensui possessed an energy of this nature, but (as he himself said) had difficulty harnessing it and had not quite become a god yet, this would explain why he was capable of destroying the physical realm as easily as an ant hill, but why he had not yet embraced Nirvana (not yet a true union with God/Dharmakaya/Brahman). It only strengthens my current belief that this is truly what Yoshihiro Togashi intended with S- class power (a near-god like, universe-destroying power) and that such power is stronger than anything Vegeta could produce.

Jigen Tou:
I have also been doing some reading on the Jigen Tou. It is a very wierd power. It contains some similarities to Super Buu's and SSJ3 Gotenks' Kiai. Like the Kiai, the Jigen Tou could cut dimensions. The Jigen Tou was even capable of making tunnels between dimensions in the final volume of the manga. It is much like Itsuki's power to make little temporary tears in dimensions that allow small groups of people through. That is where the similarities end in the manga end. Kuwabara's Jigen Tou was also capable of not only merely making tears in dimensions, but causing tears so traumatic to dimensions that it causes the dimension to distabilise and just collapse. This is similar to the DBZ anime filler version of the Kiai, as Super Buuhan almost caused the collapse of dimensions with a sustained "Super Kiai".

But the BIG difference between the Jigen Tou and the Dimensional Kiai is the Jigen Tou's sheer unstoppability. There was nothing in the entire Yuu Yuu Hakusho manga that could stop the Jigen Tou. It could slice through people regardless of their power level. It could cut people as weak as Mitarai and it could possibly even slice through people as strong as Sensui. Sensui always dodged the Jigen Tou when he could have just taken it like he did with Hiei. This provides the most likely explanation as to why Kuwabara's blade could destroy the Kekkai: it could cut through anything. Super Buu's Dimensional Kiai could cause dimensional rips due to the sheer power of his Ki. If it was like Kuwabara's Jigen Tou, Super Buu's Ki would have killed everyone it touched. However, we see DBZ characters taking hits from Super Buu's strongest Ki attacks and surviving.

This shows that Super Buu's Dimensional Kiai is very different in nature to the Jigen Tou and cannot be compared, as it does not contain nearly as much cutting ability as Kuwabara's Jigen Tou. In fact, if we cannot accept anime-only evidence here at MFG, then Super Buu's Dimensional Kiai is more similar to Itsuki's dimensional ripping in the effect it causes. A temporary tunnel to other dimensions. The Kekkai could only be affected by either Reikai's spell-casters who put the thing up 50 years ago (as Raizen said there was no Kekkai 700 years ago) or by something that could cut through anything. Sensui deemed that if he found a "cutting power" that could "rip entire dimensions apart" (Viz Vol. 14), something Itsuki's dimension ripping power couldn't do, that should be close enough to the power to cut through anything. Mitarai thought Kuwabara might be the one when he saw the cuts in dimensions, but only after he saw his entire dimension collapse did he say that Kuwabara was the one.

Natural dimensional distortions:
My final input into this thread is that if the reason for the natural, sporadic dimensional tunnels between Ningenkai and Makai was due to the dimensions being weaker than those in DBZ, then there would have been sporadic dimensional tunnels from those realms to other realms as well. There were no natural tunnels to Reikai, but such tunnels were shown to be opened in seconds, whereas tunnels to Makai of a similar size took hours. This information suggests that the natural dimensional distortions weren't due to the "weakness" of the realms. What it does show is that the reason why it happens is more complex that just that.

In fact, the reason given for these sporadic openings in the final volume of Yuu Yuu Haksuho is that they were essentially God's Will. In the same chapter Kuwabara used his Jigen Tou to open up a portal to Reikai, we learn of the omnipotent, omniscient, etc. God of Yuu Yuu Haksuho, who created everything according to His Divine Will. However, we learn at the end of the chapter that God also controls every little thing in the Yuu Yuu Hakusho world with his Divine Will. Every event in YYH, every battle that was ever fought was started, fought and finished due to God's Divine Will. God's Will was also given as the explanation for any random, sporadic event, such as the openings between Makai and Ningenkai. It also explains why there weren't openings from Makai/Ningenkai to other worlds despite the fact it was so easy to open portals from Reikai to Ningenkai, but so much harder to open portals from Ningenkai to Makai.

ANB

1-No, Sensui was taking slashes from the Jugen Tou too: Manga Fox: Yu Yu Hakusho Vol.16 Ch.009 Online Manga Scans
Manga Fox: Yu Yu Hakusho Vol.16 Ch.009 Online Manga Scans

When Yusuke arrived on the scene, Kuwabara was exhausted like Hiei and Kurama. It shows there was off-screan fighting too. So apparently he tried to fight Sensui and couldn't kill him. Also, last time I checked Kuwabara only had B-class power. He might have gone to A by unlocking his Jugen abilities (But that still wouldn't make him fare any better than his friends apparently).

As I've stated countless times, the sword does-not reflect his strength. What makes it special is because it is DESIGNED for dimension-cutting. Show me where it says it can cut anything (and it shouldn't be found in only one translation, no matter how reliable).

2-You cannot say that the sporadic openings occur because of "God". In fact, that's the most bloated cop-out I've ever seen in an arguement. To the characters in DBZ and Mortal Kombat, "Gods" are just pompous overseers who once in a while interfere and only judge at their convenience. "Gods" are surpassed many times in these series and aren't taken seriously (the Elder Gods for example showed that they can be treacherous when they promised to revive Scorpion's family if he worked for them and they came back as specteres like him).

The sporadic opening are obviously because the barrier is artificial and flawed. It's man-made. The ROSAT has no such weakness and was pryed open through sheer power (Piccolo thought it was impossible and nothing prior to the horror of Majin Boo proved the notion wrong). Also, unless this is a mistranslation the barrier only repels "demonic energy": Manga Fox: Yu Yu Hakusho Vol.16 Ch.008 Online Manga Scans

One thing people overlook in assuming the Kekkei is drastically different is the fact it is parallel with the other barrier too: Manga Fox: Yu Yu Hakusho Vol.16 Ch.009 Online Manga Scans
Manga Fox: Yu Yu Hakusho Vol.16 Ch.009 Online Manga Scans
So once you cut/go past it, your on the other side. A tunnel, just like the effects we see when Boo and Itsuki rip dimensions.

__________________

Nefelpitou

Not one of those scans showed Sensui being hit by the Jigen Tou. There is nothing proving the Jigen Tou even touched Sensui. Sensui also didn't take a hit from Kuwabara, but he did from Hiei. All he did was dodge/get out of reach of Kuwabara's attacks, which is why he was able to beat Kuwabara: you can't hit what you can't touch.

Kuwabara's Jigen Tou was not shown to be stopped by any force in the Yuu Yuu Hakusho manga...ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB 2-You cannot say that the sporadic openings occur because of "God". In fact, that's the most bloated cop-out I've ever seen in an arguement. To the characters in DBZ and Mortal Kombat, "Gods" are just pompous overseers who once in a while interfere and only judge at their convenience. "Gods" are surpassed many times in these series and aren't taken seriously (the Elder Gods for example showed that they can be treacherous when they promised to revive Scorpion's family if he worked for them and they came back as specteres like him).

I'm just quoting the Manga. The sporadic openings are said, by Mr. Togashi, to happen due to God's Will. It makes sense too. Reikai's dimensional limits are shown to be weaker than Makai's. In Nigenkai, it takes seconds to open a tunnel to Reikai, but hours to open a similar tunnel to Makai. Why aren't there any natural tunnels from Ningenkai to Reikai, given that it is much "weaker" in dimensional limits, than Makai? Maybe because it isn't about strength or weakness. Like the final volume suggests: it's God's Will.

The sporadic openings have nothing to do with the Kekkai. If you think they do, get another translation, as Yoshihiro Togashi never wrote stuff like that.

ANB

I like how you haven't even told me what chapter these things are stated in.

1-No, you have to provide PROOF that Kuwabara's sword cuts trhough "anything". You can't make an arguement saying just because it has than it can. Seaman stated that Kuwabara was the man they were looking for, who can "cut dimensions". The translation of Jugen Tou is "Dimension sword". The Kekkei is a "dimensional barrier".

So...when did they say it universally cuts anything...?

And Sensui beat the mess out of Kuwabara, alon with Hiei and Kurama. He has just as many injuries as them: http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/r...chapter.15472/

2-Again, what chapter...? I've searched all over the plave to find groups fanslating YYH and mangafox has been relatively faithfull (ch. 165). When do they say God wills them to happen?

Also, the Rosat barrier is apparently MUCH stronger since it repaired itself IMMEDIATELY after Boo fired his lazer and the SDF said it would take more than a weak to repair the damage to the Makai barrier and Kekkei.

__________________

Island of 1,000 Condiments

Uh.

Shouldn't you be using official translations?

__________________

Cableguy15

If you're talking about Viz, they're only on Volume 14 currently... According to Amazon.com Volume 15 comes out in July and Volume 16 in December... So it's going to take a while.

As for this whole discussion, Vegeta would win easily. We barely even know how strong Hiei is at the end of the series since the manga ending was so rushed and he's never shown fighting in the tournament.

__________________



Cableguy's Power Levels: Saiyan Saga

Cableguy's Power Levels: Namek

Cableguy's Power Levels: Freeza Saga

Nefelpitou

I already said the chapter was in the final volume. But I've provided the chapter below for you. You still have yet to post any scans of Sensui taking a Jigen Tou hit. So far, your scans only showed him avoiding it, which shows he couldn't take it. The Jigen Tou could cut through beings, regardless of how strong they were: a property Super Buu's ki didn't have. Sensui was only ever shown dodging Kuwabara's sword. Kuwabara couldn't hit him with the sword. Sensui won through superior speed and overal power. Kuwabara was confident that if he hit Sensui with the sword, he could easily take an arm off. Judging by Sensui's reaction to the Jigen Tou, I'd say he thought the same.

If Sensui was so strong and could tank Kuwabara's Jigen Tou, why was he only shown avoiding it? Why didn't he just tank it like he did to Hiei's sword and take out Kuwabara more efficiently? He could only avoid it, and then counter before Kuwabara could hit him. To tell you the truth, I have yet to see a translation literally stating: "The Jigen Tou can cut through anything". But Super Buu's Ki was shown to be stoppable. The Jigen Tou was not shown to be stoppable. EVERYTHING that the Jigen Tou made contact with was cut, so the manga portrayed it to be unstoppable. A statement seems a little useless if it was shown by feats to cut through anything.

The Jigen Tou has similarities to Buu's Dimensional Kiai, but it also has some stark differences that make it uncomparable. Super Buu's ki could not cause dimensions to collapse, like the Jigen Tou. Super Buu's ki was shown to be stoppable, unlike the Jigen Tou. All Super Buu's Ki did was make a temporary tunnel in a dimension. This makes it more comparable to Itsuki's dimensional capabilities, in terms of effect. I'm not getting involved the debate over whether or not Super Buu can break the Kekkai. All I'm saying is that Super Buu's Dimensional Kiai cannot be compared to the Jigen Tou. Although the Jigen Tou was able to create tunnels between dimensions, it was capable of doing more, as it was a very special power.

P.S. No accurate translation has ever called the Kekkai a "dimensional barrier". Otherwise, it would have been called "Jigen Kekkai". Accurate translations include: "barrier", "force field" and "periphery field", but I have never heard it being referred to as a "dimensional barrier" in an accurate translation. Sensui was looking for someone who had the "cutting power" to "rip apart entire dimensions". Such power could not only cut through dimensions, but anything in them: people and objects. Mitarai wasn't sure Kuwabara was the one, even when he was making those initial dimensional distortions and cuts. Probably because he saw Itsuki make similar dimensional distortions. Mitarai himself also said that nothing could break out of his dimension. It was only after Mitarai saw his entire dimension disappear with one stroke, and also saw that he was cut in addition to the dimension (proving that it didn't just cut dimensions) that he thought for sure Kuwabara was the one who could break the Kekkai.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANB 2-Again, what chapter...? I've searched all over the plave to find groups fanslating YYH and mangafox has been relatively faithfull (ch. 165). When do they say God wills them to happen?

Mangfox faithful? The translation that completely left out the part about Seikouki being able to merge the user's Ki with nature? That statement was very significant to the original concept Togashi-sensei based Seikouki on. I don't call a translation that omits original material and makes up new material faithful. It's the number one reason I don't use it and opt to use either Viz or the original raws. As for your request, the chapter with the God's Will reference is in Volume 19, Chapter 7. Titled: "All or nothing". It's one of my personal favourites, as I am a Christian, and I feel it gives God His Glory. Plus, it is just very entertaining.

It also provides a good reason as to why there were no natural tunnels to Reikai. In the YYH Manga, artificial tunnels to Reikai could be made in seconds. On the other hand, artificial tunnels to Makai of a similar size took hours to make. If the natural dimensional distortions were due to the "dimensional strength" of Ningenkai/Makai, then there should've been many times more natural tunnels to Reikai, as its dimensional fabric was easier to separate and would thus be, by your logic, "weaker". The fact that there are no natural tunnels to Reikai shows the error in the logic of natural dimensional distortions being due to the "dimensional strength" of the realms. The whole point of Chapter 7 was that it called into question whether there were any random events or even free choice in the YYH world, as even seemingly random events are in fact all a part of God's Will. The "God's Will" is cheap, much like the "wizard" from the Simpson's Xena. But it makes sense of the natural dimensional distortions and other such unexplained phenomenon in the YYH world. It also honours of one of my favourite quotes from Alpha Centauri regarding Probability Mechanics: "Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, but the dice are loaded."

Also, the dimensional fabric of Ningenkai was shown to "repair itself". Hiei also said it was impossible for B classes to access Makai from Ningenkai. Itsuki could make a hole in Ningenkai, but not the Kekkai. According to the logic you used above, Kekkai >>>>>> Ningenkai (of both DBZ and YYH) and ROSAT, which is way too simplified and contradictory to be of any use as proof. I don't believe the statement about Kekkai >>> Ningenkai/ROSAT. I can't and more importantly won't make a call on that. All I'm saying is that there's more to the dynamics of dimensions that the simple and sometimes contradicted logic you are using. ROSAT didn't repair itself as though it was a special ability of ROSAT: Super Buu's hole was merely temporary, and the dimensional fabric of ROSAT and the DBZ world re-stabilised naturally. The reason it took a week for the Reikai forces to repair the dimensional fabric of Makai and Ningenkai is because, unlike Super Buu's hole, those holes were permanent and covered a space over 2km in size (the size of the whole tunnel between the two holes). As for the Kekkai, even normal reiki was shown to be useless against it (as Sensui knew people who could break barriers, but could not break the Kekkai), and only those who built the Kekkai could repair it using the spell you mentioned earlier. This would make it very hard to work on. Those are factors you should have taken into account.