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Originally Posted by Chibi Mystic Gohan
I think both of those points prove that speed can be trained on its own. I don't think Butta was faster because of some genetic mutation, but because he worked hard on his speed. Perhaps doing gravity training of his own.
I don't think any of those prove anything relevant to this debate. It's a given that an audience of normal humans wouldn't be able to see any of the main characters well when they fight, or that characters much weaker than another character wouldn't be able to track the faster one's movements, or that a character might be able to see an attack/opponent they couldn't see before if the get stronger, etc.
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1-I agree speed can be worked upon by itself. That's part of my point. You and a few other members tried to discredit Vegeta's statement that speed went along with power.
2-This was mostly addressing point #1. Anyway, I'd like to wright my chart that shows Freeza was moving at 200 million mph at 50%:
Power/Speed
139/700 mph
1848.7/8680 mph
24,587.71/107,632 mph
327,016.54/1,334,640 mph
4,349,319.98/16,549,496.32 mph
57,845,955.73/205,213,754.36 mph
*Muliplyed 1.33x10 to get 13.3. I increased the power by this number
**Multiplyed the speed by 1.24=10 to get 12.4. This came from subtracting 1.09 from 1.33.
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Speed does increase with power. Until you hit the border between sub-light and light-speed. None of those show that speed beyond light-speed is possible. And no, the death-beam one is not proof, because your eyes can theoretically adapt to speeds up to just below light speed, and that's what the beam was, until you can provide conclusive and substantive evidence that the beam was moving beyond light speed. But eyes cannot adapt to see at speeds beyond light speed. You'd get time lag, and Goku would have been killed by the beams.
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If I can prove their speed for a given power-level is greater than the speed of light, then it doesn't-matter if they defy the laws of physics. How many times have I said that...? The math speaks for itself and Dragonball has both kept faithfull to the laws of physics AND defies them left and right. This ("unrealistic", "unscientific") is not a good arguement.