Quote:
Originally Posted by ANB
Absurd. If Sensui was 0% he'd be emitting no energy at all. Even in the translations you guys go by, it's <50. I don't get how you can interpret less than 50 to mean 0. Mathematical fallacy.
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I've already explained that a more proper way of saying it is "practically 0%". To be truly accurate, 0% is also less than 50%. I only said Sensui was using 0% because Kurama stated Sensui was almost fully suppressing his power. Sensui was supposedly at this power level when we saw him in Ningenkai. The "<50%" quote was referring to a different, much higher power level that we didn't see Sensui go up to in the YYH Manga in Ningenkai. Sensui stated he couldn't (and didn't) go up to even 50% in Ningenkai, for fear of destroying it. Ningenkai just couldn't handle that much power being unleashed. Sorry I didn't explain it better earlier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven
When I saw the fights the earth under them was shattering and rocks were flying everywhere but I didn't particularly notice the earth shaking...just had to sneak that in there but I don't want to debate. Just saying that the damage looked to be isolated and not so widespread.
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Good point, Raven. The damage
was limited to the cave. I don't know about the shaking though. But we see mountain ranges, forests and cities beyond the cave shaking too. This was also during a scene where the cave was not really affected (and not even damaged), implying that this was nothing in comparison to the shaking Sensui was doing before. Sensui even said that his power was shaking all of "Dai-chi" (the entire human plane of existence) during that scene and Kuwabara also commented on Sensui's power affecting Itsuki's universe, which lay beyond the physical universe entirely. Sensui's power-up was infinitely more impressive than Vegeta's, as it shook (but did not damage) infinitely more space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurushimi
Well, that still wouldn't prove that the Ningenkai in YYH is weaker than the one in DBZ. It's a little foolish to use power up feats in the first place. If we were to look at the level of damage displayed by Sensui when he powered up (in Ningenkai) and mulitply it by 45, as you suggest, that would still be no where close to destroying even the Earth (and I believe Ningenkai refers to the universe.). He must've been using an extremely small percentage of his power. You also assume that the Makai is about as stable as DBZ's earth, having nothing to support this.
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My thoughts precisely.
EDIT: My overall stance on this issue is power-ups prove nothing about a person's true power level. Nappa shook the Earth. Vegeta shook the Earth. Cell shook the Earth. It doesn't mean they're the same strength. Sensui Minoru's power in Ningenkai didn't cause nearly as much damage as Toguro's 80% power-up. That doesn't mean Toguro at 80% was stronger than Sensui Minoru. It's just an effect of their power. The stronger characters mentioned above probably could've done more damage if they released enough destructive power in a power-up, but that doesn't mean they
have to release that much destructive power in a power-up. Just beause characters get stronger doesn't mean their power-up
has to be more devastating to the environment. Their power-up
can be more devastating, but it doesn't
have to be.
Just look at the examples posted. It was said by ANB that Sensui's (suppressed) and Vegeta's power-up both affected the environment the same way, so they are comparable in strength. However, a contradiction occurs if Sensui powering up to his Offence Armour is compared to Goku's power-up. Goku is weaker than Vegeta at that point, and Sensui in his Offence Armour is stronger than Sensui (suppressed). If Sensui (Offence Armour) going all out is comparable in strength to Goku at a power level of over 9,000, how can Sensui be comparable in strength to Vegeta at a power level of 18,000? Not to mention Sensui was suppressing almost all of his power in the comparison with Vegeta, making it even more unsound. It just doesn't work.
This is why power-ups are not a good stick to measure by, as it can lead to rife inaccuracies about a character's power level. Destructive feats in general can be compared, but since the effects of power-ups usually (but not always) only show an indeterminate fraction of a character's power level, they should not be used as comparable destructive feats to judge a character's true power level. The fact that we see weaker characters in both series causing equal or even more damage to the environment with their power-up than stronger characters should prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt.