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Like I said, we just disagree on this.
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Well, can I just hear your explanation?
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Frieza still pushed Goku beyond his limits, no matter how you try to word it.
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I didn't say he didn't, I say the SSJ was a different situation. You're talking like they could do that everyday but they can't. It's the only situation where they can exceed their limits, not the lmits of their base from because they don't get stronger at base. SSJ just drastically multiplies one's power, it's not like they anyone can exceed their limits.
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That's another crazy comparison. If Tien's Tri-Beam wasn't stronger then Buu's ki blast, then why did it destroy it? Not only that but Tien stopped 2nd form Cell dead in his tracks with that move, and was basically whopping his ass for a minute. So are you saying that makes Tien stronger then Androids 16, 17, 18 and first form Cell? Trunks deflected one of Omega Shenrons attacks that was meant to kill Vegeta..... with his hand. Doesn't mean he was stronger.
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You saw what happenend when Tienshinhan was doing the Kikhoho on Cell? After a coupe of times he fell unconscious because he hadn't more energy left. Even if by that time, hand to hand he was much weaker tha Cell the attack still held Cell back for some time. It doesn't mean Tienshinhan is anywhere near Cell in terms of power. This attack just works differently because as you can see, it isn't a normal Ki attack like the Kamehameha or the Masenko, if Goku fires a Kamehameha on a blast much stronger than his, his kamehameha will just be destroyed by the blast. Tien doesn't even fire a blast like the others, he completely uses all his energy to do the Kikoho. Tienshinhan never got close to SSJ like power, his Kikoho deflecting Buu's attack was something totally different. I doubt any other attack could have the same effect. Honestly, aside from Tienshinhan, did you see anyone do that?
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SSJ4 Gogeta is "probably" stronger then SSJ2 Vegito by a good margin? All righty then. I didn't bring up the universal spirit bomb to compare SSJ2 Vegito and Omega Shenron.
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You don't get it. That won't reveal anything. If you say ''It took a universal Genki-Dama to destroy Yi Xing Long'' and use that to compare him to Vegeto, it won't bring anything since neither of them would have survive the bomb. I'll give you an exemple, let's say there was a nuclear explosion, man A died from it and man B wasn't touched by it. Now you say, man A was probably stronger than man B because it took a nuclear explosion to kill him. That doesn't prove nothing since they would both die easily by the explosion. Same for Vegeto and Yi Xing Long, they would both die without resisting much, that's not a way to compare them.
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Well I wanna say Goku and Frieza, but Frieza wasn't that much weaker then Goku. Even so, saying it never happened before sounds good, but it's weak. You seem to not understand that we're talking about the 2 strongest characters in the DB universe. I know that doesn't matter to suit your opinion, but it most definitely suits what happened and what was said. I don't know why it's so hard for you to realize that he was stronger then they thought. They were shocked that Omega Shenron survived that blast. And you're right, it is either one of two things, and I agree that Shenron was more powerful then they thought.
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That's not what I mean. I took exemple from the beginning to the end of DBZ. I don't see how that can be weak. From the beginning to the end that rule never changed. Even for Vegeto and Shin Buu who were the two strongest characters in DBZ, that same rule still applies. It won't change just because you want it to change. Yi Xing Long showed his full power against Gogeta, if he was more powerful than what they thought he would have at least put up some kind of threat against Gogeta but he didn't. If Gogeta's full power wasn't powerful enough to destroy him, it means Yi Xing Long has enough power to at least damage Gogeta. Just like Cell had enough to damage Gohan, just like Frieza had enough to damage Goku etc. Yi Xing Long hadn't that kind of power, if it's your last argument, sorry but that isn't an argument. It just means Gogeta never used his full power. You can't just say he was stronger than what they thought since he never showed he had some kind of power that could put up a resistence to Gogeta. It's not because they are the two strongest characters everything will change, from the beginning to the end of DBZ nothing changed, even throughout GT that rule still applied. If it has somehow change you must give an explanation, otherwise it's an opinion with nothing to back it up.
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Priceless man, just priceless.
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I know, I place SSJ4 Gogeta pretty high but for me, the whole DB universe is populated by weaklings, so 1,000,000,000,000,000 weaklings against SSJ4 Gogeta are still weaklings.