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Originally Posted by Majuub
That isn't an argument at all. Like I said in my last post, proportions always work the same way no matter how high are the numbers. It's like saying 2x=4 but 2x1,000 doesn't equal 2,000 because 1,000 is a high number and it won't double. You're not even debating, where is your argument, I want to see it.
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I think it's unreasonable because it's like comparing children to adults in terms of power. It just doesn't make any sense in my opinion, thats all.
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Originally Posted by Majuub
A character can exceed his 100%. I never saw that happened once. How can someone use more than what he is truly capable of. You do know that doesn't make any sens do you? You're saying anyone can exceed the very limits of his body when he is ''pushed'' to the limits?? That's a contradction right there, you said pushed to the limits, that means he reached the limits, the limits are 100%. That's not a good thing to contradict yourself in a debate man. Think about your sentence for at least 1 second. It's like saying, Goku is as strong as Gohan but he is stronger. You said yourself, he reached his limits and now you say he exceed them. Does he reach his limits or does he surpasses them? That's totally different.
Limits =100%
Pushed to the limits = more than 100%
It's the exact same thing. At the very least you could have said they're not using their full potential at full power because it's almost impossible to reach our limits at will but saying using your limits and being pushed to the limits doesn't mean using the same amount of energy is just a contradiction. I believe you don't understand to well. Being pushed to the limits=Being pushed to 100% only the words are different but they have the exact same meaning. I didn't say Gogeta held back, I said he didn't use his full power, there is an enormous difference. It's like when you're angry at someone, you'll hit him because you're mad and you'll try to hurt him without holding back, it doesn't mean you gave it all.
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You're actually right on this one..... because I worded it wrong. I know that if Vegeta was asked to just do a Final Flash for no reason, with all his power, it would be nowhere near as strong if he were in a life and death battle and was pushed to his limit. I don't see that being very hard to understand. Everyone gets stronger when their adrenaline is pumping, especially if you fear for your life. As far as no one ever exceeding 100%, isn't that what happens when Goku first goes SSJ? I mean by your logic Goku never fought at 100% until he was a SSJ4. People can always go beyond their limits. Like lifting weights, you can max out at 200 pounds, a few years later be up to 600 pounds. Essentially you erase your previous 100% max and replace it with a higher one. It's a normal and common occurrence in most sports.
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Originally Posted by Majuub
That's not what I mean. You said Gogeta was using his full power meaning he was using 100% of his power, that means it was the most he could do with that attack and yet Yi Xing Long didn't die?? That just means:
Yi Xing Long>100% Gogeta
Unless Yi Xing Long has some ridiculous regenerative abilities like Chibi Buu he shouldn't have survived that attack. Even Buu was scared to die against Gohan and Goku who was about even with Chibi Buu was strong enough to kill him at full power and now you're telling me Gogeta who is probably many times stronger than Yi Xing Long can't do the same?
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What I'm saying is exactly what happend. Gogeta says "I'll send you to the Next World with this blast". Then afterwards when Shenron was still alive, he says, "You're a persistent one, huh?". Then he says "But no matter how much you struggle, it's no use!" So yes, Shenron resisted. He survived the blast. My whole thing, which is where we differ, is that he would have said he didn't use his full power, or Shenron would have mentioned it, or either Goku or Vegeta would have mentioned it when the fusion ended and they split, but no one even hints at it. I also think Gogeta would have said something about putting more power into the next one, which he didn't do either. I tried explaining full power versus being pushed to ones limits and beyond, but whatever. We just see this differently, except I'm basing my opinions on stated facts.
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Originally Posted by Majuub
Owned? Do you know not everyone in the universe is forced to give their energy with the Genki-Dama? They have to raise their hand and it'll drain them. The Genki-Dama takes energy from plants and every life form, do you seriously think they'll all listen to Goku? It's like when you're in a classroom and the teacher says ''Everyone, listen'' usually there is a couple of students who don't even listen. It's like with Chibi Buu when he was doing the Genki-Dama, Vegeta told the people of the earth to give their energy and almost no gave did it. I'm not saying almost no one did it in that situation, I'm saying not everyone gave it.
I don't see the point of debating that though. The Genki-Dama was way too much for Yi Xing Long, aside from SSJ4 Gogeta I don't think anybody could have survived that, so this is rather pointless to discuss that. Even if that Genki-Dama kills SSJ3 Vegeto, it doesn't mean he isn't stronger than Yi Xing Long, it just means he isn't strong enough to resisit that attack.
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Bringing up Vegeta asking the people of Earth, versus Goku asking the people throughout the universe is another ridiculous comparison. You saying "not everyone gave it" is again your opinion versus a stated fact. They even showed bad guys in jail giving their energy. You're right in the sense it wasn't forced, but they absolutely gave it willingly. That's what I believe based on a stated fact, on what was shown and on what was said. I never said anything about the Spirit Bomb killing SSJ3 Vegito, just for the record. No matter what, power from everyone in the universe is gonna be stronger then SSJ4 Gogeta. That shouldn't be hard to comprehend.
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Originally Posted by Majuub
I never said he did anything to him, I said it was enough to hold him back a little. It's obvious the Kikoho is a different kind of attack since I severly doubt he would have successfully held back Buu with a Ki blast such as the kamehameha or anything like it. When Buu had fired an attack powerful enough to kill Chou Gohan, Tienshinhan did his Kikoho on that attack and it destroyed the Ki blast. How come was Tienshinhan able to repel something strong enough to kill Chou Gohan when he is much weaker than Shin Buu. That's why I say the Kikoho works differently, here is what it should have looked like if it was a normal attack.
Even if it's the non canon section, it doesn't mean we can't use canon basis. GT is just following DBZ(Even if it breaks some rules) but saying we can't use canon evidence in a discussion is just a way for you to not counter my arguments. It would be too easy to just say using canon facts doesn't work. I don't see why it wouldn't work. |
I never said you couldn't use your so called "canon evidence" in this discussion. I just think it's funny that you wanna bring it up and claim it now after all this time. Whatever makes you happy man. Also, my point was that Tien's blast didn't do anything to Super Buu, so I'm wondering how it held him back? You ask how Tien's Tri-Beam was able to destroy Super Buu's ki blast? I'm gonna take a wild guess and say because it was stronger.
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Originally Posted by Majuub
We are both stating our opinions, that's what a debate is all about. The only difference is the fact you talk without backing anything up while I use canon basis and evidence from previous episodes as a back up. You just talk and insult me. Seriously, how old are you? 12? You could get banned for that but I didn't report you nor anything, now just stop insulting me.
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I'm not gonna lie, I was pretty drunk when I wrote that response last night, sorry I hurt your feelings and made you cry. The difference between our arguments, is that you base yours on your own opinions and make ridiculous comparisons. On the other hand, I quote the anime, use stated facts and actual events that happened during the actual fight to back up what I believe, not events that happened in previous fights that are irrelevant. Arguing lame opinions against stated facts and actual events is more immature then getting frustrated when you're drunk.
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Originally Posted by Majuub
You still didn't say why Yi Xing Long survived the power of 100% Gogeta =/
Why are you ignoring that fact?
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Are you serious? He survived because he was strong enough to do so. It's that simple.
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Originally Posted by Majuub
For me it's the same thing as in DBZ, the Genki-Dama powered by the earth wasn't more powerful than SSJ Vegeto.
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Except you're talking about the whole world versus the whole universe. Another lame and ridiculous comparison. Seriously man, just give it up.