Originally Posted by Island of 1,000 Condiments

For the record, Kakuzu wasn't defeated by just Naruto. He was defeated by Naruto, Kakashi, Shikamaru, and Chouji. In fact, Kakashi would've been killed twice if it hadn't been for two key interventions. One of those was because Shikamaru fed Hidan Kakuzu's blood. If Kakuzu would've fought any of those characters one-on-one, or even one less, he would've obliterated them all. Without Chouji, Kakashi wouldn't have destroyed the Doton Heart and gotten blood nearly as fast. Without Shikamaru, Kakuzu wouldn't have been set up for Chouji and Kakashi to take out Doton and get blood. Then, Shikamaru was the one who fed Hidan Kakuzu's blood. Without Kakashi, Kakuzu would've kept his Doton Heart. Without Naruto, there would've been no Rasenshuriken, and Kakuzu would've killed Kakashi. Basically saying, alot more than Naruto took down Kakuzu. It was a joint effort that almost got Kakashi killed. Twice. And they only won because Raiton > Doton. Otherwise, Kakuzu would've obliterated Kakashi with Advamced Taijutsu.

Originally Posted by Island of 1,000 Condiments

All logic says Base Naruto would've lost against Kakuzu, individually. Fact is, Kakuzu was weakened. Out of five hearts, he lost two. That's 40% of his power. Therefore, 40% of all his Jutsu and Chakra are gone. Then, understand the toll on his physical self. He just finished sealing Nibi & Sanbi. If I remember, that took nearly a week. Without sleep. It took Chakra. It may or may not have had any major side-effects. Afterward, he fought off a team of Shinobi. Kakuzu nearly killed Kakashi. Twice. Whilst holding off Chouji and Ino. Then, he nearly killed Naruto. But then Yamato shows up. The first two hearts were the result of a plan by Shikamaru. Chouji held Kakuzu's attention. Kakashi took a heart and some blood. The next heart was taken because Hidan got some of Kakuzu's blood. So unless Base Naruto could not only strategize better than Shikamaru, but act as a three-man Team, in one, then he wouldn't win. Even then, just about everything about that fight was planned. It was an ambush, in which Shikamaru and Kakashi knew exactly what they were doing. If they didn't plan beforehand, Kakuzu wouldn've killed them all. In fact, if Naruto & Yamato didn't show up, Kakuzu would've killed them anyway. But wait! If Yamato wasn't with Naruto, Kakuzu would've killed him. And then. Killed Kakashi, Chouji, Ino, and Shikamaru.

Originally Posted by Island of 1,000 Condiments

I'll explain now. Couldn't earlier. Had to heat the oven.


Against Tsunade: Tsunade had trouble with Kabuto, who was around Pre-Timeskip Kakashi's strength. (Actually, I imagine Kakashi > Kabuto.) Kakuzu is probably double Post-Timeskip Kakashi, one-on-one. Kakashi wouldn't have won against Kakuzu if he hadn't had the help of Chouji, Shikamaru, and the fact that Kakuzu spent a sleepless week sealing two Bijuu after a skirmish with Team Asuma. Kakashi was on the run for most of that fight, even with Sharingan and his arsenal of Jutsu. Now, enough of Kakashi, Kabuto, and comparing that to Tsunade. Lets look at Tsunade's physical characteristics. She specializes in Medical Ninjutsu and Taijutsu. Kakuzu's Taijustu tore town steel gates with a single, held-back punch. Kakuzu's fist creates indents in the ground. Keep in mind, this is without Body Hardening. Tsunade, at best, takes down concrete walls and boulders. Kakuzu blew through steel gates. In base. Include Doton, and Kakuzu would far exceed anything Tsunade can do. Add that fact that his elements can bust through forests, and you basically have him plowing through Tsunade. But wait, what about her offensive capabilities? Body Hardening made Kakuzu's body harder than steel. Stated. Unless Tsunade has Jutsu that rip apart steel, or her fists can do so without serious injury, then I don't see her breaking through Kakuzu's very first defense. This isn't even calculating speed that Kakashi's Sharingan had trouble with. Next, lets look at potential summons. The strongest summon Tsunade has is weaker than Gamabunta. Gamabunta was shown to be weaker than the Released Shukaku. Kakuzu held off Nibi. Nibi > Shukaku > Gamabunta > Katsuyu. So yeah, Tsunade would put Kakuzu under pressure with summoning and advanced Taijutsu, but he outclasses both Tsunade and her slugs quite easily.

Against Jiraiya: Jiraiya's Taijutsu can't compare to Tsunade's. His Ninjutsu wouldn't compare to Kakuzu's either. Kakuzu is, without a doubt, one of the best Ninjutsu Users in the series. From Jiraiya we've seen Doton, Katon, and some hair Jutsu. Kakuzu uses all five elements. His speed outclasses anything Kakashi could counter. If Kakuzu remained in close-range, he would easily out-class Jiraiya. At long-range, we'd have some Ninjutsu struggles. However, with Kakuzu's Elemental combinations, Jiraiya would be toasted rather quickly. About Summonings, it's the same deal with Tsunade, except Gamabunta is stronger than Katsuyu. However, Gamabunta also can't regenerate, so there's a small problem. Gamabunta would lose to Kakuzu, knowing that Kakuzu > Nibi > Shukaku > Gamabunta. The Tailed Beasts are leagues away from each other. If Gamabunta can't even compare to Shukaku, he wouldn't be able to hold a candle to Nibi. (I personally think Kakuzu would go as far as taking out Sanbi myself, but that's a different matter.) So yeah, Kakuzu kills Gamabunta. Then finishes off Jiraiya. This of course, is assuming Jiraiya gets an opening to summon anything.

Against Sennin Mode, I probably give it to Jiraiya.

Against Orochimaru: Orochimaru, being the strongest of the Sannin, would be the most difficult to defeat. Tsunade's Taijutsu did little against him. Ninjutsu, Orochimaru has many tricks. I suppose it's the matter of getting close, ripping apart Orochimaru, find out it's ot the real one, and continue the carnage until the real one is hit. Summoning-wise, Manda was the most powerful of the three bosses. I might put him above Shukaku, but that's a stretch. However, that's still nothing Kakuzu couldn't handle. I do see Orochimaru being the most challenging. He has his wys of living through things he shouldn't. Kakuzu rips him apart in Body Hardening - Oro comes back. Kakuzu busts out the elements. Oro survives. However, this is via Ninjutsu. Orochimaru would run out of Chakra far before Kakuzu. Why? Because Kakuzu has five hearts. Foreign hearts. Therefore, individual chakra supplies. I see Kakuzu winning, but this one would be close. In fact, I'm half-tempted to give a victory to Orochimaru, but only because of Kakuzu's Taijutsu.

About Nibi: We didn't see much of this battle, but base Kakuzu held off Nibi. Hidan may have been involved, but doubt it would've made a marginal difference. In fact, Kakuzu was completely unharmed when coming out of that battle. His uniform was in perfect condition - Therefore implying he didn't use any elements. So Hidan & Kakuzu (W/o Elements) > Nibi? With elements, and without Hidan, Kakuzu probably would've finished the battle very quickly. Also know that Kakuzu was the only one seen fighting Nibi. The only one. Hidan hid behid a rock. Lets say they had a strategy which involved Hidan getting blood, and utterly raping Nibi from the inside out. Who would've done that? Fought the beast of pure fire? Kakuzu. The guy who held off Nibi's paw. A paw of solid fire.


Lol, rambling.

Originally Posted by Island of 1,000 Condiments

Gamabunta & Nibi: Your basing your argument that Gamabunta > Nibi. By all logic, if Nibi > Shukaku [See Below for Evidence] and Shukaku > Gamabunta, shouldn't Nibi > Gamabunta? There is no distinction between the two that gives either a major disadvantage, save the Suiton > Katon factor. Kakuzu was shown to have held Nibi back, effortlessly. Hidan was on the sidelines. If Kakuzu handles Nibi without as much as a scratch, how could he possibly lose to Gamabunta? He couldn't. Gamabunta has a size advantage, but so did Nibi. In fact, size meant nothing when Kakuzu single-handedly ripped apart that steel gate.

Bijuu Strength: This is why the the higher the number of tails, the more powerful the Bijuu.

In a post used against me, I might add. Look two Quotes down.


Jiraiya: I wasn't referencing Kakashi as an individual, rather his reflexes with Sharingan. Kakuzu out-classed Kakashi's Sharingan with Taijutsu. The last one to do that was Itachi, if I recall. Knowing of this speed, also understand that Kakuzu is a very aggressive individual. He wouldn't even give Jiraiya an opening to summon. When an opening came, I would imagine Jiraiya would summon Gamabunta before the inners of a toad. In fact, if Kakuzu busts through steel, then he could bust out of a toad just as easily. Itachi melted the toad's throat open. Kakuzu could just burst through it with raw power, no? The point of that toad was to trap the victims in a space where they would slowly be digested. The average victim cannot bust through steel, nor can they melt the throat of a fire-breathing toad. Itachi, as an Uchiha, is naturally a Katon user. Jiraiya knew this. Therefore, he summoned a toad who could resist fire. He knew Itachi couldn't break out. however, he didn't know of Amaterasu - Something stated to be hotter than the sun. Even then, I have a very important fact to point out. If Amaterasu was used to open this toad's throat, then wouldn't the opening still be there? I mean, it's not like you can grow back a throat. Onto moves such as Rasenshuriken. Jiraiya has none. Rasenshuriken was a move not even the most powerful Shinobi, Yondaime Hokage, could master. Rasengan, and some minor improvements are all Jiraiya has. He has no Rasenshuriken or better. Rasenshuriken is the best. And is exclusive to Naruto.

Orochimaru: First of all, I stated Manda > Shukaku being unknown. Honestly, I believe Shukaku being superior for the reasons you stated, but I heard some solid evidence which says otherwise before. Regardless, since Kakuzu can manage Nibi without even a scratch, and Nibi > Manda, then I doubt Manda could defeat Kakuzu, even with acid. In fact, it's just the matter of moving out of the way. Here comes that speed that Kakashi had trouble following. Kakuzu just moves, and counter-attacks with some steel-destroying fists of fury. About Deidara's self-destruction, Manda only caught a second or two of the blast before they returned to, well, where ever summons come from. Stated. That was enough to burn Manda and kill him. Kakuzu wouldn't need to do anything of the sort. all he'd really need to do is rip him apart with Taijutsu. Concerning Orochimaru himself, he would be a challenge, I agree. However, the sword is only as strong as the user. He wouldn't just take out three hearts on demand. He'd have to stop all of Kakuzu's blasts, get through his Taijutsu, and then pierce the Body Hardening. About reanimating, Orochimaru can't. He simply has multiple clones. Kakuzu simply rips apart these clones until he gets to the real one. If I recall, these clones take alot of chakra, according to Itachi in the last chapter. About Yonbi naruto's blast, it destroyed a forest. So did Kakuzu. Why didn't it kill Orochimaru? Because that Orochimaru wasn't the real deal. Basically saying, Oro kept hiding while his chakra-produced clones took the heat. His chakra will eventually run out. Faster than Kakuzu's would, I presume.


Toodles.

Originally Posted by Island of 1,000 Condiments

Kakuzu & Rasenshuriken: At the point Naruto arrived, Kakuzu was completely on the offensive. His tendrils, as well as advanced Ninjutsu provided an unstoppable defense. However, there were two flaws that led to Kakuzu being struck by Rasenshuriken. The first was underestimating Naruto. Kakuzu just dodged one Rasenshuriken - the Jutsu not even Yondaime Hokage could master. Then Naruto had shadow Clones. Shadow Clones are stated to divide the user's Chakra supply. Kakuzu couldn't possibly know the extent of the Kyuubi's influence. He couldn't possibly know that Naruto constantly received chakra from Kyuubi without physically drawing into it. The last Jinchuuriki Kakuzu fought had to tap into her Bijuu's power. So there was no way Naruto would've had the chakra supply to not only use Rasenshuriken twice, but have so many Shadow Clones. Keep in mind, not every ninja knows multi-Shadow Clone. It's rare. Next comes Kakuzu's physical disadvantage. Kakuzu couldn't move. What? Yes. This is easily the most overlooked disadvantage in all of Naruto. Kakuzu was broken into fractions connected by his tendrils. His masks, which were once on his back, were between his neck and shoulders. He had tendrils pouring from every opening in his body. In other words, the tendrils served as a defense, while elemental blasts were his long-range offensive. Think of Gaara. Gaara rarely moved. Instead, the sand stopped attacks and parried. Now imagine it done at will. Then imagine a few miscalculations from him. That's basically what happened to Kakuzu. His stance left him motionless. He could've broke stance, but he didn't expect Naruto to have enough chakra for Shadow Clones + Rasenshuriken.When he did figure it out, it was too late.

Originally Posted by JAIF

The power of a bijuu depends on two factors:

If it is free, it depends on:
-Its own power.
-Its intellect.

If it is sealed, it depends on:
-The amount of power his jinchuuriki can channel.
-a) The ability of the jinchuuriki to harness and use its power effectively, if he can control it.
-b) The amount of the bijuu's power that can leak into the jinchuuriki, if he can't control it.

Gaara was the jinchuuriki of the Ichibi. By fully releasing the Ichibi, he demonstrated a power a fair deal stronger than Gamabunta. Then, he increased his own power, and was able to harness the bijuu's chakra more effectively, surpassing that level of power and reaching the S-class, fighting on par with an unprepared Deidara, who was shown to be stronger than Orochimaru when fully prepared. So:

Gaara (Shippuuden, base) >> Shukkaku = Gaara (Full Shukkaku transformation, asleep) > Gaara (Full Shukkaku transformation, awake) > Gaara (Full Shukkaku transformation) > Gaara (Partial Shukkaku transformation) > Gaara (Part 1, base)

Therefore, Gaara during Shippuuden (with the Shukkaku sealed inside of him) is stronger than the Shukkaku.

We did not catch a glimpse of how strong Nii Yugito was as a shinobi, but she fully released and controlled her bijuu's power. Gamabunta and... part 1 pre-Rasengan Naruto, combined, could fight the full Shukkaku for a while - Hidan is an S-class criminal, albeit arguably a rather low S-class one, and by all means immortal, yet he had to exert effort into dodging the Nibi's attacks, it would be pretty out there to assume that Hidan can be much weaker, his practical invulnerability taken into account, than one of the Sannin, and Jiraya with Gamabunta would make sport of Shukkaku. If Hidan needed Kakuzu's help to deal with the Nibi, I think it's safe to say that Nibi > Ichibi.

Deidara was, apparently, fully prepared when fighting the Sanbi, and the fact that he didn't just rush against it alone, and rather took Tobi with him and approached with particular caution, proves that he considered it a much worthier opponent than Gaara (might I add, Deidara's line prior to facing Gaara, when Sasori questioned whether he was ready or not, was: "Don't worry. Our opponent is the Ichibi, after all..."). It was Tobi who actually fought the Ichibi, but it seems that Deidara helped him, plus, Deidara did not hesitate to take charge of another Bijuu hunt, namely that of the Kyuubi, proving that the Akatsuki do not require specific members to capture their corresponding Bijuu despite their official "assignments", so if Deidara thought he could defeat the Sanbi alone he would have just gone in without Tobi, unless it was some sort of test for Tobi, which he apparently sadly failed. So even though the Sanbi was free and its intelligence limited, it appeared that Deidara faced it with more caution than he did the Ichibi, when he didn't know the Sanbi's state (but he knew what Gaara was capable of). Based on that (and on that only, since we unfortunately lack other evidence to support it, since we didn't learn any other info on the Sanbi), I can calculate a much bigger gap between Shukkaku and the actual Sanbi (if we assume it was as 'intelligent' as Shukkaku), bigger than the one between the Ichibi and the Nibi. So Sanbi > Nibi > Ichibi.

Kisame was among the team who was sent to enlist Deidara, each and every member of said team facing Deidara and his flaunting of his strenght with jeering and doubt, referring to him as a massively inferior shinobi - something not completely unjustified, since it is pretty much established that Kisame could make very short work of someone on Orochimaru's level, and Deidara died against someone not massively stronger than Orochimaru. Yet Kisame had to visibly exert himself to the point where he commented on being tired after the fight against the Yonbi and it's jinchuuriki (Kisame, the person with the most chakra and stamina in the Akatsuki). Since he refers to the jinchuuriki, which appears to be a Gaara case, in which the jinchuuriki with the bijuu's powers is much stronger than the bijuu itself, the whole thing is pretty vague, but we can take that as a cue as to how the Yonbi ranks up against something that Deidara handled with particular ease. Again, it is pretty uncertain, considering the Sanbi had no intelligence, affecting its power negatively, and the Yonbi had a powerful jinchuuriki, affecting its power positively, but there is nothing to contradict it either, so we can assume without any valid reason not to, that Yonbi > Sanbi > Nibi > Ichibi.

I will skip the Gobi, Rokubi, Shichibi and Hachibi since nothing at all was mentioned about them, and go straight to the Kyuubi, which was stated to be the strongest bijuu of all.

Kyuubi >>> Yonbi > Sanbi > Nibi > Ichibi.

Add in the fact that Naruto's power increses with each tail release (not only did Jiraya state that 'with each tail, more and more of the Kyuubi's chakra leaks into Naruto, but for the extremely sceptical, there are the facts that the first tail is obviously stronger than the semi-Kyuubi transformation, the fourth tail is stronger than the third, Kakashi managed to outspeed and seal the power of Nibi Naruto, albeit with difficulty, while Sanbi Naruto just... blasted Kabuto, who was stated to be on Kakashi's level, a few feet backwards, Sanbi Naruto is stronger than Nibi Naruto, and finally, when Ichibi Naruto began evolving into Nibi Naruto, the chakra leaking into the atmosphere caused Naruto's Kage Bunshin physical pain and forced them to dissolve, so it's pretty clear that Yonbi Naruto >> Sanbi Naruto > Nibi Naruto > Ichibi Naruto > Semi-Kyuubi Naruto), there is one more hint that more tails = more power.

As you see, Island, there are a lot of things to support this, and nothing to contradict it. You can make assumptions all you want, but as long as this stands, they cannot be considered "as valid" as what has been stated so far.

===

As for whether Kakuzu is stronger than Kisame or not, the answer is pretty obvious.

The linear way:

Gai is on Kakashi's level.
Post-training Naruto is on Kakashi's level.

We have Neji, who is a jounin, and obviously stronger than Chouji, who is a chuunin, and Ino who was obviously weaker than Tenten pre-timeskip, and with her shifting her focus on medical ninjutsu (and excluding those medical skills, of course) it is likely the gap remained and widened, and Rock Lee, a person with high chuunin level taijutsu.

It took two people with Kakashi's level of power, two medium-level chuunin, Shikamaru's careful planning and a little 'help' from Hidan to kill a full-powered Kakuzu.

It took one person with Kakashi's level of power using 6 Gates which are stated to give tens of times a physical boost, a low jounin and two high chuunin to kill Kisame at 30% of his full power, and with his strongest techniques disabled. And keep in mind, Team Gai faced Kisame all together from the start, while the shinobi during the Kakuzu fight arrived "in waves".

I think it is pretty obvious that the two teams boast about the same level of power in a linear fashion, and while this does in no way prove that 30% Kisame > Kakuzu, which is wrong by a long shot anyway, it does prove that Kisame > Kakuzu, since both teams were badly, and for all purposes almost equally exhausted after the fight was over.

If you want to try this in a non-linear fashion, Kisame was stated to have more chakra than anyone in Akatsuki, including Kakuzu, Kisame's Suiton: Bakusui Shouha was recognized by the ANBU as a technique "only the Nidaime Hokage had ever possessed in Konoha", and it was not even close to Kisame's strongest technique, by Kisame's own statement, while the strongest ninjutsu displayed by Kakuzu, the Katon - Fuuton combo, was neutralized by a combination technique of Yamato's and Naruto's attacks, who were both jounin level ninja, not close to a Hokage's power (although combined, they were most likely stronger), his second-strongest - Raiton: Gian - being equalled and countered by two Raikiri, fired off by Kakashi, who was a jounin as well... you can see where I'm going with this. While Kakuzu's demonstrated ninjutsu are at least as strong or even stronger than those displayed by Kisame's Shouten, it is close to impossible that they can be stronger than the ones of his full-powered incarnation, especially if a single one would require more than 30% of Kisame's total chakra. And Kisame's specialty seems to be taijutsu, in which he dominates - the casual sword strokes of his 30% Shouten were enough to push Gai to the edge, a person with an extremely high taijutsu statistic for a jounin, and Kisame was hardly trying, while fending off attacks from Rock Lee, Neji and Tenten as well. It is almost ridiculous that, considering Rock Lee's five gates strenght could shatter Gaara's suna yoroi to pieces, which could withstand tremendous pressure, Gai's 6 Gate strenght that was neccessary to finally defeat Kisame's Shouten wouldn't be more than enough to shatter Kakuzu's Kurogane Kuroda instantly. At this level of taijutsu, it wouldn't take Kisame more than a few successful hits to break Kakuzu's defenses, while simultaneously fighting on par with him in ninjutsu. What's more, Kakuzu got outsmarted and main-character'd by Naruto, whereas Kisame could fight cleverly enough and utilize his clones well enough to counter and defeat the whole Team Gai attacking him simultaneously. While Kakuzu is tactical and analytical, he seems to lack the neccessary abilities and corresponding skill to utilize advanced tactics, being forced to rely more upon raw strenght and endurance, as well as the fact that he can use all elements.

EDIT: 1600 words.