Quote:
Originally Posted by ANB
@Dimension:
Okay, these are direct quotes from Volume 41 of DBZ, chapters 297 and 298 (I am literally holding them in my hand)
Piccolo sees that Boo is too much for Gotenks. His back-up plan is to seal him inside the ROSAT. The ROSAT is explicitly labeled numerous times as a "separate dimension" and "another world": That was the only door between our world and this one--Piccolo, page 98. The ROSAT is literally another "world" in the sense and title of ch. 298 is "Escape from the Time Dimension".
So if Makai is another dimension and plane of existence and Ningenkai is likewise a seperate dimension and plane of existence, the kekkai's role and the door to the ROSAT are essentially the same. The Kekkai's purpose is where they are different: It's trying to keep things out. The door readily lets things in. Thinkg of it as the difference between a prostitute and someone with a cork in their butt XD.
Anyway, Piccolo stated that the door was the "only way to travel between our world and this one". Once it is destroyed, Boo will "Never escape". Likewise, A and S class demons CANNOT go through the kekkai. Itsuki managed to lower the outer force-field layers but the kekkai was so strong only Kuwabara's Dimension-cutting-sword could open it.
The similarities are clear. Makai and Ningenkai are seperate dimensions. Earth and the Dimension of Time are seperate dimensions. They are seperated by a barrier: One is always closed (unless you lower it with a spell) and the other is open until after 48 hours.
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I agree that the role is the same. However, the one flaw in your logic is that the way in which they operated is completely different. The door to the ROSAT was merely an existing tunnel. In other words, it is essentially the same as the hole Super Boo ripped in the dimension. If Itsuki was trapped in the ROSAT, he'd easily be able to get out, because the door does not provide a physical barrier to him. However, in the case of the Kekkai, it provides a physical barrier, even after a hole between two dimensions is made. This makes the example of Super Boo busting out of the ROSAT insufficient to prove that he could break the Kekkai, as Super Boo didn't break a magical force field in order to escape. He merely opened a hole out of the ROSAT to compensate for the destruction of the other "hole" to the ROSAT (the door).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANB
The "force-field" was the basic one even Itsuki could weaken. Beneath it was the kekkai. Notice how all the D-class demons that were forcing their way in brok through it and it shattered just like glass...? Looking at the hole Boo made, it's very similar.
Piccolo states on pg. 133 that he "blew a hole throught the dimensional barrierwith his chi!". So yes, he uses his chi. The difference is, the attack is brute strength and Itsuki is using a special ability to rip holes in dimensions. Boo forces them open with raw power. Your statement, that it was only the technique that did it, is false. Boo was not even aware he could do such a thing. If it had been a kamehemha or even a regular chi-blast of equal power it would do the same thing. Itsuki's abilities have nothing to do whatsoever with his strength.
-The Kekkai is a barrier between dimensions;
-Boo can rip holes in the barriers between dimensions;
-Ergo, Boo can rip open the kekkai. There is really no way of denying this since the kekkai CAN be broken as demonstrated by Kuwabara.
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There are three things I've bolded there. In regards to the "force field" I was referring to, no, the "broken glass" was not it. That was the dimensional tunnel itself. The Kekkai was behind that, and it provide a physical barrier (as opposed to a dimensional barrier) to demons getting in.
Referring to the "Super Boo scream", I did not state that the technique alone did it. I stated that it was due to Buu's ki, and without the ki, his scream would have done nothing. However, there is no denying that it was his Ki alone. He focussed it into a scream. I posted that scan showing the focussed beam of noise and ki to show it was a technique. Without that focus, his Ki would have done nothing. I never said he deliberately used a technique either. I think that two things are needed to transcend dimensions: ki and a method of using it. Transcending dimensions isn't always linked directly to power either: characters in DBZ and YYH less powerful than Super Boo have made dimensional tunnels. But they always used a power source (ki) and a way of using this power.
The only problem I have with the final bolded part is that the Kekkai could be broken by the Jigen Tou, as you said, due to the
special power of Kuwabara's sword. The Kekkai was a magical force field that seemed to ignore brute power. That's why it was set up in the first place: to stop beings with more power than the Spirit Realm Special Defense Forces from getting in. If it could be overcome by brute power (like the Kekkai Ruka used on Hiei), it would have gone down ages ago.
Super Boo's attack is closer in comparison to Itsuki's method of opening holes in dimensions, in that it does just that: rips holes in dimensions. Yes, Super Boo does it with strength and Itsuki does it with his ability, but all Super Boo did was open a hole in a dimension, just like Itsuki. He never showed anything that could take down a magic force field that ignores brute strength, therefore, it cannot be proven that Super Boo can take down the Kekkai. In fact, the fact that it could only rip holes in dimensions makes it look like he
can't take down the Kekkai, as other people who could also rip open holes in dimensions found dimension-ripping abilities useless against it.
P.S.: One thing I haven't made clear enough is that I'm dealing in probabilities and not absolutes. Like, with this "Super Boo/Kekkai" thing, I am open to the fact that Super Boo could
possibly break through the Kekkai. The Jigen Tou was able to break it, so it isn't unbreakable. But Super Boo making a tunnel out of the ROSAT isn't the same as breaking a magical force field. I think it is
unlikely that Super Boo could break the Kekkai
based on the feat you have given, given that Itsuki could also most likely escape the ROSAT by making a tunnel between dimensions, but could not affect the Kekkai due to it's magical nature. If you think Super Boo can break it, go ahead. I'm just saying I personally can't see enough proof to confirm that view in my eyes, that's all. I'm merely giving just one
opinion. In all my discussions with you, it has all been stuff that can be debated, and I'm just telling you my opinion, that's all. I'm not going to tout such opinions as concrete fact. If it were concrete fact, we probably wouldn't be having these discussions.