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ANB · 05-05-2008

1-Until viz releases the volume where this happens and clarifies how much power Sensui can use in Ningenkai, we should either use 1/5, 1/10, or the translation you use "<50%". My arguement, using "1/5" comes from mangafox.com (which is unofficial, as is yours).

Also, I compared him to Saiyajin saga Goku because when Goku powered up, the country-side shook and enormous boulders levitated and moved. It's in the manga, but I don't know what chapter (volume 4). The best Sensui could conjure was "affecting the cave walls" and likewise cuasing boulders to rise.

Goku: 8,000+
Sensui (1/5 translation) full-power: 40,500
Sensui (1/10 translation): 81,000
Sensui (<50%): 324,000 I decided to just go for 40%

2-No, Super Boo ripped the dimensional barrier "with his chi" (Volume 41) and Piccolo was absolutely astonished. In fact, direct quote has him saying "I can't believe it! He blew a hole through the dimensional barrier with his chi!". He didn't even think it was possible, and earlier in the same chapter Piccolo stated that the barrier between the Room of Spirit and Time and Earth was sealed off by a limit of 48 hours. Once those were up, you cannot escape. Boo defied that by simply getting frustrated at this fact and screaming.

The dimension-cutting sword is a special sword and does not necessarily reflect Kuwabara's strength; otherwise, he wouldn't have fared so bad against Sensui. It's not even like his other swords that channel their energy from his spiritual rei-ki essence. It's magic. Itsuki can travel though dimensions, not rip them apart (correct me if I'm wrong). Regardless, the Kekkei cannot even be broken by A or S class demons (the reason why it was made) and yet Super Boo can break one.

Ergo, Super Boo>>>A and S class demons. But I agree with you and Gazooya that there are a lot of inconsistencies between the two series'. Toriyama made his Earth much more stable so that he could show off how strong his characters are (SSJ3 Goku blowing up a tenth of the planet with a casual chi-blast, Gohan's Kamehameha being solar-system sized, Perfect Cell trembling the planet by powering-up). On the other hand, YYH creator has a much more complex plot and Ningenkai is very weak compared to the world of DBZ.

3-I have argued with various members about Makai endless theory. I've already said why I think the floors don't go on forever (Koenma saying Reikai has control of half). BUt since you want me to bring new material to the table, what about the fact Mukuro is always talking about "territory"...? Surely they have some clue about how large it is.

I agree that Togashi was to vague and because Makai is essentially a giant basement, it cannot be compared to our universe. Furthermore, if it were hypothetically going on forever then it simply CAN'T be comapared to Ningenkai. Ningenkai is limited in size (although very huge) and is currentyl expanding. You can't divide infite/2 and that is why I think the floors (at the very least) do not go on forever. This would explain more about Koenma's statement: Maybe there are indeed an endless number of floors and thus an endless amount of space (consequently). It isn't necessary that the floors themselves go on, that explains it imho.

What am I getting at...? Well, there's no proof Raizen shook all of Makai going by the manga. In fact, translaters often fumble over this isolated panel that has little to do with the plot. I read one that said "Oh, the king's stomach is rumbling. You can set your watch to it". Others claim that he is shaking the "entire plane of existence" but...that would mean if he started fighting he'd tear the reality apart! If he could affect it that much just with his stomach, and we know there is physical effects on the terrain when they fight and power-up, Makai would be thrown into chaos whenever he fights. One thing I'd like to point out is that Yusuke said "what is that sound?" not "why is everything shaking?". Perhaps it is just a very loud noise and a little rumble here and there. He didn't even notice the stomach growls until they were well into the country side.

But those are unofficial translations. Like the Sensui's percentage issue, we should wait until viz translates it. That is literally all I have to say on the matter.

--Akuma No Barrakku

05-05-2008	#58 (permalink)
ANB (23) Final Warrior Join Date: May 2006 Location: Protecting my country from the Western Devils Posts: 2,809 Rep Power: 23	Re: Hiei vs. Vegeta 1-Until viz releases the volume where this happens and clarifies how much power Sensui can use in Ningenkai, we should either use 1/5, 1/10, or the translation you use "<50%". My arguement, using "1/5" comes from mangafox.com (which is unofficial, as is yours). Also, I compared him to Saiyajin saga Goku because when Goku powered up, the country-side shook and enormous boulders levitated and moved. It's in the manga, but I don't know what chapter (volume 4). The best Sensui could conjure was "affecting the cave walls" and likewise cuasing boulders to rise. Goku: 8,000+ Sensui (1/5 translation) full-power: 40,500 Sensui (1/10 translation): 81,000 Sensui (<50%): 324,000 I decided to just go for 40% 2-No, Super Boo ripped the dimensional barrier "with his chi" (Volume 41) and Piccolo was absolutely astonished. In fact, direct quote has him saying "I can't believe it! He blew a hole through the dimensional barrier with his chi!". He didn't even think it was possible, and earlier in the same chapter Piccolo stated that the barrier between the Room of Spirit and Time and Earth was sealed off by a limit of 48 hours. Once those were up, you cannot escape. Boo defied that by simply getting frustrated at this fact and screaming. The dimension-cutting sword is a special sword and does not necessarily reflect Kuwabara's strength; otherwise, he wouldn't have fared so bad against Sensui. It's not even like his other swords that channel their energy from his spiritual rei-ki essence. It's magic. Itsuki can travel though dimensions, not rip them apart (correct me if I'm wrong). Regardless, the Kekkei cannot even be broken by A or S class demons (the reason why it was made) and yet Super Boo can break one. Ergo, Super Boo>>>A and S class demons. But I agree with you and Gazooya that there are a lot of inconsistencies between the two series'. Toriyama made his Earth much more stable so that he could show off how strong his characters are (SSJ3 Goku blowing up a tenth of the planet with a casual chi-blast, Gohan's Kamehameha being solar-system sized, Perfect Cell trembling the planet by powering-up). On the other hand, YYH creator has a much more complex plot and Ningenkai is very weak compared to the world of DBZ. 3-I have argued with various members about Makai endless theory. I've already said why I think the floors don't go on forever (Koenma saying Reikai has control of half). BUt since you want me to bring new material to the table, what about the fact Mukuro is always talking about "territory"...? Surely they have some clue about how large it is. I agree that Togashi was to vague and because Makai is essentially a giant basement, it cannot be compared to our universe. Furthermore, if it were hypothetically going on forever then it simply CAN'T be comapared to Ningenkai. Ningenkai is limited in size (although very huge) and is currentyl expanding. You can't divide infite/2 and that is why I think the floors (at the very least) do not go on forever. This would explain more about Koenma's statement: Maybe there are indeed an endless number of floors and thus an endless amount of space (consequently). It isn't necessary that the floors themselves go on, that explains it imho. What am I getting at...? Well, there's no proof Raizen shook all of Makai going by the manga. In fact, translaters often fumble over this isolated panel that has little to do with the plot. I read one that said "Oh, the king's stomach is rumbling. You can set your watch to it". Others claim that he is shaking the "entire plane of existence" but...that would mean if he started fighting he'd tear the reality apart! If he could affect it that much just with his stomach, and we know there is physical effects on the terrain when they fight and power-up, Makai would be thrown into chaos whenever he fights. One thing I'd like to point out is that Yusuke said "what is that sound?" not "why is everything shaking?". Perhaps it is just a very loud noise and a little rumble here and there. He didn't even notice the stomach growls until they were well into the country side. But those are unofficial translations. Like the Sensui's percentage issue, we should wait until viz translates it. That is literally all I have to say on the matter. --Akuma No Barrakku __________________ A-wizard-did-it (Noun): When there are obvious logic fallacies, plot-holes, or inconsistencies, just blame it on the old guy in the robes.