Old Rai

Wow. You guys like your DBZ vs. YYH here! I have a few thoughts that I have to type. I should note that these are not arguments, as much as just thoughts.

I seriously couldn't agree with you more. Although what you said is true, this would mean you can't even compare physical feats. That is why many here are saying that YYH Human Realm = DBZ Main Universe. Unless we establish a common point of comparison, not even physical feats can be compared. This is the number one reason I dislike straight vs. threads: unofficial points of comparison.

I only really want to know one thing: How did you come to the conclusion that Sensui was equal to Goku during the Saiya-jin Saga? I'm just curious. I bolded the "less-than-1/5th" reference because it is a mistranslation, almost as common as the "1/10th" mistranslation. In the original Manga, Sensui said that even with his power "nearly fully suppressed", he was still affecting the Human Realm like he was. He also said that his only weakness was the fact that he couldn't even let loose half of his power in the Human Realm, as his power was just far too much for the Human Realm to handle/contain.

That's all he said in that scene. He never said anything about being at "1/5th" or "1/10th" or "destroying planets" or any of the other common mistranslated statements I've seen around boards lately. Any conclusion based on Sensui being able to "destroy the planet" at "1/5th" or "1/10th" is falsely grounded, as it is not faithful to the Manga. According to the original Manga, Sensui would destroy the Human Realm/physical universe/plane of existence if he released 50% of his power, which puts him on a level closer to the end of DBZ. I just thought I'd point this out, as I have heard similar statements based on mistranslations of the Manga.

I just hope that wasn't what you based it on, that's all. If it wasn't, then I'm very interested to hear how you did it. *smiles*

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Originally Posted by ANB 3-If you want to talk about dimensions then I can seal the arguement right here: All YYH characters are weaker than Super Boo because they could do nothing to the barrier between human and demon planes and yet Boo created a hole with his screaming.

Does the fact that Kuwabara could "rip apart dimensions" (according to Sensui and Seaman in my Viz manga) and destroy the Kekkai barrier make him both on par with Super Boo and also stronger than any demon in YYH? No, that's silly.

Itsuki could tear holes between dimensions quite easily himself. Shortly after the fight between Demon Yusuke and Sensui, Itsuki makes a rip between his realm of darkness to the Demon Realm. Itsuki obviously can make holes in dimensions like Super Boo, but again, I don't think that is synonymous with power. Itsuki didn't strike me as being as powerful as Super Boo, lol.

But Itsuki couldn't get through the Kekkai, because it was a special barrier. The whole "Super Buu screaming holes in dimensions" argument doesn't quite make sense to me in proving that DBZ > YYH in power. I don't think ripping dimensions has anything to do with power when comparing the two universes, given how YYH deals with it. But if it did have something to do with power, the fact that a demon who casually makes rips in dimensions cannot get through the Kekkai does cast serious doubt on whether or not Super Boo could get through it.

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Originally Posted by ANB 4-The universe does not go on forever; ergo Raizen did no shake something that goes on forever. If he did he'd be the most powerfull being in the fictional universe :/ On top of that, Koenma Jr. told Yusuke that Reikai conquered half of a floor of Makai. So it's clear he meant a metaphor when describing Makai as "endlessly vast and deep". Regardless, you cannot divided infinite/2 and Makai being endless wouldn't be synonymous with an EXPANDING UNIVERSE.

Well, Raizen supposedly shook all of Makai at mealtimes. Whether or not Makai is endless can be called into question, I agree with you on that. My only question here is: are you basing that solely on Koenma's statement? If there is something more, I'd appreciate it if you'd share it with me.

Koenma's statement...in my Viz Manga, Koenma says Reikai partly holds sway over the first level of Makai, along with the other demons. He seemed to be comparing his ruling power with that of the other demonic rulers on that level. I read that scene as Koenma showing a graph, showing just how little ruling power he had over Makai. It makes him look, as Yusuke said, "a pretty crappy ruler." The fact that we never see any of Reikai's holdings in Makai nor do we truly hear of them also casts doubt on the interpretation that Koenma literally conquered and covered half of the physical territory in Makai.

Because I have read the YYH Manga in that light, I personally think that each level of Makai was endless. In the Anime and the Manga, Koenma says Makai is "endlessly deep and vast". I always thought "endlessly deep" referred to the number of levels, which means the "endlessly vast" can only refer to each level itself. Given that there was no end seen to a level of Makai, there is no proof that each level of Makai wasn't endless. It's more proof that is was endless. The lack of material evidence for levels of Makai not being endless, and the weight of the material in favour of levels of Makai being endless makes me think Makai is indeed endless. But it is entirely a matter of opinion, if you ask me, given how vague Yoshihiro Togashi was on the nature of the realms in YYH. I only think Makai is endless. I don't know if it is, which is why I'm asking you the question in the first place.

However, I do not think shaking Makai can be compared to shaking the physical universe. They are two different planes of existence. The complete model for the physical universe as we know it is euclidean, which makes the whole universe (observable + unobservable) infinite in theory. But in terms of the observable universe (galaxies, dark matter, dark energy), yeah, the universe is limited and is still expanding.