SS2 Vegeto

You can't possibly judge the overall power of the two combatants as compared to one another on who can cut loose the strongest fireball. Literally the only thing this proves is perhaps not even that Sasuke is simply a better Katon user, but that Sasuke is better with the Katon jutsu that he does use, on the condition that Itachi's physical state did not weaken the power of his ninjutsu. It doesn't say anything for every single other area of strength, being every other ninjutsu, and ninjutsu overall which takes into account available jutsu, taijutsu, genjutsu, intelligence, physical power, speed, stamina, and sign weaving. No one's avoiding it, they're just not jumping to conclusions over one little thing. In fact, I did mention it in my last post.

I don't see your point. However hard someone worked to get that power has nothing to do with the amount of power they have. Sasuke put his life on the line to gain power to match up to his older brother. Itachi gained the power of the Mangekyo Sharingan in one night. So? That's still Sasuke's power, and that's still Itachi's power regardless of how they got it.

So we're bigots before you've even presented your rebuttal, for not agreeing with you from the get-go? Give me a break. That isn't called for.

It's certainly not written with no purpose. If there was no motivation to write it, it wouldn't be written. You expect us to believe that Kishimoto just inserts things like this without contradiction, retraction, or question, and expects us to figure otherwise? You're not informed of things so that you will assume that it is false. I'd say suggesting that it would not be surprising, by his performance, that Itachi was severely injured before the battle even started suggests that his performance was such that it would not be surprising that Itachi was severely injured before the battle even started. That Zetsu didn't know exactly what was causing it does not invalidate the observation that Itachi appeared handicapped enough to merit such an assumption, nor does it offer grounds to ignore Zetsu's other statement "That definitely wasn't Itachi's true power". I don't see how that could be more direct.

He invited him, and Sasuke, who was tracking him anyway, showed up. It was ultimately for the purpose of testing Sasuke's abilities and transferring the Mangekyo techniques for his protection. As long as he had the power for that, he could fulfill his goal. Also, it's not as if he decided to be severely handicapped. That's just the state he was in, for whatever reason. We have an uncontested statement telling us that what we saw "definitely wasn't Itachi's true power", so we know for fact that he did show up like that. That it comes across as awkward to you is not a valid argument, as there is no necessary contradiction. If you want my personal opinion, Madara had his eyes set on Sasuke, so his opportunities were probably limited. However, that's not really necessary to the argument.

Now hold on. If Sasuke didn't take it, he doesn't have it, so it has nothing to do with his power - and therefore nothing to do with this topic. What he could have done but didn't isn't relevant to what his power actually is.

Next, you're making the mistake of taking analogy literally. He compared them to weapons, yes - specifically, shuriken and rocks, however, Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan is not a shuriken and Sasuke Sharingan is not a rock. Martial artists will sometimes call all the parts of their body their "tools", to offer and example used in reality. You're speaking of their Sharingan, their own eyes, as if it's a weapon external to them. Zetsu was just using that comparison to demonstrate how someone with a weaker ability could overcome someone with a more powerful technique - you're not supposed to take the analogy literally, because then it wouldn't be an analogy.

Madara knew both that Itachi would not kill Sasuke, and that he wanted the truth about him to disappear into darkness with his death. He knew that Sasuke hated Itachi and was hellbent on killing him. Of course he wasn't surprised.

Possessing more powerful jutsu counts towards being more powerful. Just possessing more powerful jutsu isn't everything, and just possessing more power for jutsu isn't everything. If Itachi can overwhelm Sasuke with the more powerful jutsu that he possesses despite having been overpowered when both using the same jutsu, it means he is more powerful overall in regards to jutsu as he was able to go further with what he had at his disposal. Like I mentioned earlier, ninjutsu is not the only thing that counts towards overall power either.

I've gone through these exact points before. First of all, the opponent being able to diffuse all your bombs when all you use for attacks are bombs is a way worse handicap that someone with lightning speed, high level ninjutsu, weapons expertise, and the ability to transform multiplying ones power ten fold and heightening physical toughness, losing much (not even all) of the usefulness of his also high level genjutsu. Next, whereas Deidara's eye is actually a technique, it's affect up to it's use rather than luck, Sasuke's lightning affinity is not a technique but an attribute of his technique, the advantage (or disadvantage) it offers basically dependant on a game of elemental rock paper scissors. It was just bad luck that their abilities happened to match up that way, for Deidara, and this lead to his loss - not the difference in strength and ability. That you can go as far as to say that Deidara got handled when he almost took Sasuke with him anyway, and still left him bed ridden, is ridiculous.

As for Kirin, a technique that would have replaced a number of other things he was able to do that did work anyway, meaning it worked either way and he still ended up in a bad position, that he no longer had the chakra to use, if he was even thinking of that in the first place and not, say, Manda. Also, so he has a technique that could kill Deidara - the same could be said for Deidara. There's nothing much significant here.

Again, stop treating the absorption as if the chakras are separate. It's not like that, any more so than it is for when Orochimaru controls the body - those he inhabited, each of them, remain in his subconscious mind, and they carry over with him, when he leaves their body. The only difference with Sasuke is that Orochimaru's mind was still active - despite this, the only time he's ever been able to cause a disturbance was when Sasuke was not only out of chakra but tried to forcibly access power he didn't have and woke up Orochimaru himself. As for what else specifically proves that Orochimaru's power was assimilated:
- Sasuke claimed to be in control. You don't control something if all you're doing is keeping a lid on it.
- Orochimaru's regenerative powers kicked in automatically when Sasuke was bedridden. He didn't have to access them of his own volition, they just acted as part of his own nature.
- Snakes replace blown off body parts...and reappear immediately once Curse Seal level 2 is reactivated.
- It is stated to be impossible for either Sasuke or Orochimaru to kill Itachi individually...however, Sasuke is confident in his ability to kill Itachi after absorbing Orochimaru, in other words, there was a difference that bred confidence in what was once considered to not be able to happen.

I mentioned this earlier.

^Right there.

He never intended to kill Sasuke. Sasuke was going to keep trying to kill him as long as he could still move. I should note, the suggestion that overuse of the sharingan had been purely responsible for Itachi's weakness was dismissed in canon.

He could have tried to kill him immediately in Tsukuyomi, he could have continued Amaterasu and burned up the fake body, followed by Sasuke directly below, he could have killed him any time he wanted to with Susano'o...


EDIT: The new rules allow one scan per post, Astner. You'd have to link to the rest.

__________________