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Originally Posted by Evil Dark Knight
I don't think Byakuya actually tried to dodge the getsuga tenshou, he seemed more surprised at the power of the attack. However, if there is proof that he shited his position, I will withdraw that part of my statement. (Though I know someone is going to say the thousand blades approached Ichigo in the shape of a coil and Ichigo used the Getsuga Tenshou to cut through the middle, yet it passed Byakuya's hand)
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JAIF answers the first part for me. The notion that he just took it head on, and suffered a minor cut, and Ichigo was all fine and confident, is extremely out there. He was..shocked..but that doesn't mean he couldn't dodge it. He was shocked because...that's freaking strong. Nothing else is revealed, or implied, that's..all. To assume any further is rather baseless. And..yeah, the blades did approach Ichigo in the shape of a coil, and we see clearly that they are standing on two points of uplifted rock facing each other in a straight line, and as the gash left in soukyoku hill indicates, the getsuga tenshou cut straight forward. The fact that it passed Byakuya's hand indicates that..he moved.
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Originally Posted by Evil Dark Knight
As for what Byakuya said before he released his Bankai, I merely quoted that to prove the fact he was not forced through pressure to use bankai. Nothing is shown to prove Byakuya could not handle Ichigo at shikai. Also, I doubt Ichigo planned on beating Byakuya's bankai in his shikai state, rather, after Byakuya released his bankai, he was determined to see how long he could last challenging a bankai without releasing his. The reason he wasn't regretful after being striked down was because he was aware from the beginning that he could only win using bankai. In other words, Ichigo knew Shikai was not enough, and he was confident of his bankai abilities, that is the reason why he insisted Byakuya released his bankai and fought with him.
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But that quote doesn't have any relevance to that. It doesn't indicate anything of the sort. I mean, we all know Ichigo didn't beat him down and force him to release in self-defense, but it doesn't mean any less that Ichigo's power made it ultimately necessary. The burden of proof is always on the one trying to prove something, rather than disprove. There isn't any canon evidence that Byakuya had the upperhand in that situation. The fact that Ichigo countered Byakuya's shikai effortlessly with his own ability, shocked Byakuya with his power, and displayed such confidence afterwards, would suggest that the advantage was his, were we not shown anything else that might cast doubt on the..initial implications of this, and we weren't. Nothing about either of their behaviours afterwards made anything else apparant. This is manga. If something is suggested, by words, or a situation, and stands uncontradicted, it stands as a valid representation of..whatever. As for thinking he could take on bankai Byakuya? Ichigo says himself: "I was stupid to think...I could beat a bankai with a shikai." And although this also proves that Ichigo has a lousy ability to gauge power, from the way he acted, there's no way anyone shouldn't be able to tell for sure that they weren't stronger than shikai ability in their opponent's case, if they figured they were put in a range to compete with a state 5-10x greater than shikai. Ichigo might be clueless, but he's not stupid. Even if you could think of some way to make sense of it, it isn't actually implied anywhere, so it lacks the canon backing to support it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Dark Knight
I am aware that Byakuya was struck by the kuroi getsuga tenshou, but that was because of Hollow Ichigo decelerating his escape. Hollow Ichigo is superior to Byakuya in both speed and power, that explains how he was able to get behind him after releasing a frontal assault. The point is, Byakuya was able to dodge the attack by warp-stepping, and if Ichigo did not have the bankai to increase his speed and catch up, a large energy consuming attack would be pointless against a faster enemy. Ichigo is only faster than Byakuya in his bankai state. But this is a debate excluding bankai and Hollow interference.
Yes, Getsuga Tenshou is more powerful than Senbonzakura's thousand blades, but is has a few (I'll mention two) draw backs. 1) It consumes a large amount of energy, so Ichigo won't be able to use it so often. Once it begins to strain him, Byakuya will be free to use the thousand blades attack without it being deflected by a stronger attack. 2) It lacks speed, (face it, all byakuya needs to do is side-step and without Ichigo in his hollow form suddenly appearing from behind and constricting Byakuya's movements, he's not going to get hit twice).
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He barely had time to avoid the strikes by leaping upwards, and Hollow Ichigo was already behind him at that point - and again, dispite the advanced recovery rate in that state, Hollow Ichigo was still making use of a drained and injured body. Furthermore, we don't know how much spiritual power getsuga tenshou consumes - we know that the bankai variation can only be used a few times (prior to controlling his hollow powers), because of Hollow Ichigo's influence. Ichigo explains, "The black getsuga tenshou is that guy's attack. When I use that, I draw him out sooner...at most, I can fire two or three more times without completely losing control...". Grimmjow notes that it damages his own body, from the look of him, and that he could only put out two or three more of those, which is in line with Ichigo's explanation. We know from his explanation, that Hollow Ichigo is the reason using it consecutively puts him in such a condition. The normal getsuga tenshou has no such revealed limits. Common sense dictates that without such problems, it could be used quite a number of times more, however, the point is, we
don't know how much spiritual power getsuga tenshou consumes, and thus, it can't be used as an argument, because one cannot support anything with facts that do not exist. In fact, it's not even stated that it consumes a lot of spiritual power. Ichigo states the following, quote on quote: "At the moment of attack...it consumes my spirit energy...and fires a super high concentration of spiritual pressure from the tip of my blade. Then the attack...is magnified and discharged." Nothing about "a lot" of power, or "a large portion of power". Finally, once more, Byakuya calls getsuga tenshou slow while using bankai. He narrowly avoided a direct hit at shikai.
And I don't get all this speed business. Ichigo learned to shunpo over training (and having speed focused abilities, predominantly, in bankai, I'm sure he knows a thing or two about moving fast properly), and was easily faster than Byakuya at unreleased state. I don't see anything that shows that Ichigo would be unable to keep up with Byakuya at shikai, so I don't really know where this assumption is coming from. All I know is that the manga paints a picture that shows Ichigo looking like he has the upper hand - and I have no reason to find reasons to doubt it, if Tite Kubo doesn't look like he's trying to paint a different picture.