MFG 5.1 Anime & Manga Forums - View Single Post

**LegendarySSJ7** · 11-27-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaiyajinPerfection

This is why Goten and Trunks weren't able to do reach it even though they also appear (however, are not confirmed) to be mastered Super Saiyans; their lack of skill and battle experience was why they couldn't ascend, and all the Super Saiyans with considerable battle experience and training could.

Anyone who causes Piccolo to register shock at Goten and Trunks revving up to "full power" as Super Saiyan certainly isn't one who isn't mastered. The boys may have been naive and not had a fierce rivarly, but Goten and Trunks did what Vegeta lauded any Saiyan for - intense training without hindrance in order to overcome one's rival. Different monsters of rivalries lead to the resulting differences. But that aside, they were indeed Mastered Super Saiyans. Maybe not Super Saiyan 2 due to lack of the required battle power, experience, and training, but definitively Mastered Super Saiyans, even if their potential was limited in comparison to, say, Gohan's (who consciously augmented his power in each battle).

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaiyajinPerfection

If will now explain why Super Saiyan 3rd grade is actually closely related to the Super Saiyan 2:
With mastered Super Saiyan, it is not an alternate transformation of the Super Saiyan, it is the same thing.... but it has been trained to a point where there are no flaws, like excess ki consumption from maintaining the transformation itself and the hyped emotions. Therefore while Super Saiyan 3rd grade actually produces more ki then Mastered, Mastered is better to use and appears stronger because a high percentage of ki produced by the SSj 3rd grd goes to maintaining the transformation itself.

The glancing flaw of this argument is that SS Type 3 does NOT produce more chi than a MSS would. Mirai Trunks morbidly pushed himself too far without peering into the possibility that the threshold of the multiplier can be tapped into more effectually when one bridges the gap between the auraless state, removing the visible effects of such power and converting the effort used in transforming into more power that can be sagaciously used in accessions. Vegeta would have certainly done the same for bragging rights, but doesn't even do this during his 2nd run in the RoSaT.

Cell sees the same thing instantly - prolonging his fight with Mirai Trunks just to analytically point out the flaw in question, in Trunks' thinking, and demonstrate to him on the fly where he went horridly wrong, with quite a bit of thunder and brimstone (then again, we see Cell adapt SS auras rather easily, from his initially cowardly 1st state, where he showed no interest in fighting after Piccolo lambasted him around, to the SS2 aura Gohan allowed him to develop, all reflecting the levels of power achieved). Either way, the SS2 state is less a form and more an uncorking of Saiyan capacity.

That aside, it was of Possessed Vegeta's own volition to not go SS2 until his fight with Goku. I'm of the train of thought that he was just conserving his chi for the fight.