MFG 5.1 Anime & Manga Forums - View Single Post - Requirements for Super Saiyan transformation?

ANB · 11-02-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonkingpiccolo

1) "I endured a training from Hell. Then I ran into a wall, my own limits. Through the rage I felt toward myself, I awoke into a Super Saiyan."

This to me implies that Vegeta had trained his body as far as it would go (his limit), therefore he had to transform in order to continue in his quest for greater power.

2) Also I believe that once a transformed state is hit, you then not only have greater power, but you then are in a form that has new limits that it can reach. This would explain then how ascended transformations could be achieved. And this would also explain how the Super Saiyan state could very well be 50x base at any given time in the series, until it is mastered (or trained to the limit). And is it possible that the requirement for Super Saiyan 2 ascension is that you need to master Super Saiyan (aka be a Full power Super Saiyan)? There's only three Super Saiyan 2's in the series, and two of them were confirmed FPSSj. Is is possible that Vegeta was a FPSSj by the Buu saga? I think it's very possible, Vegeta states to future Trunks that he knew how Goku became a mastered Super Saiyan (DBZ. vol 17, pg 86), which implies to me that he knew how to achieve it as well.

4) What do you guys think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by warcrack

3) Yes, but they are not seen fighting before each of them first turned SSJ, except for Gotens spare with his mom, which i do not consider a 'real' fight since it was his mom.

1) IMVHO, Toriyama was just finding the most fitting way for Bejita to transform. He was mad as hell about Kakkaroto's superiority, and "hitting his limit" would drive him completely insane. I don't personally believe Toriyam literally meant Bejita had no potential at all, just that he had went really, reeeaally far and his body couldn't take any more strenuous actions (for the time being). This is the reason I don't agree with the anime's interpretation and deciding an asteroid was a good enough reason for him to transform.

2) Let's look in the dictionary ;)

as·cend,
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1.	to move, climb, or go upward; mount; rise: The airplane ascended into the clouds.

2.	to slant upward.

3.	to rise to a higher point, rank, or degree; proceed from an inferior to a superior degree or level: to ascend to the presidency.

–verb (used with object)
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6.	to go or move upward upon or along; climb; mount: to ascend a lookout tower; to ascend stairs.

7.	to gain or succeed to; acquire: to ascend the throne.

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tran·scend,

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1.	to rise above or go beyond; overpass; exceed: to transcend the limits of thought; kindness transcends courtesy.

2.	to outdo or exceed in excellence, elevation, extent, degree, etc.; surpass; excel.

–verb (used without object)
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4.	to be transcendent or superior; excel: His competitiveness made him want to transcend.

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Now, hypothetically "ascend" is what the Saiyajins do when they gain zenkais. By getting the snot beat out of them, blacking out, and then recovering they can "move upward along", or "ascend stairs". This can be applied with the leaps gained by any other race in the galaxy (human spirit, Namekian chi-bursts), and can even be applied to making improvements with life in general. So can it work with something explosively dynamic, like say...a 50-fold transformation??

When Gokuu wakes up after several days of illness, he tells his bretheren that "he is fine," and "I don't think I can beat the Jinzoningen or Seru,". Roshi asks what he will do and Gokuu says that a year of training might work. After the revelation of ROSAT, Gokuu goes on: "I need to get to work, to transcend the Super Saiyajin,".--DBZ volume #15, after Pikkoro and Tenshinhan look for Seru

Vegeta reaches a similar hypothesis. He experienced first hand the limits of the tranformation. But while he focused on strength and raw-chi-output, Goku noticed there was too much train, and over-all performance suffered. Chi management was also an issue. Goku came up with his "relaxation theory" and you know the rest of it.

...

SO, Is "Ultra" Super Saiyajin or "Super Super" Saiyajin an ascension or transcending...? I'll spare you my theories. In fact, I'll give you a quote from the manga: "This is a transcended super saiyan, or SS2 for short,:--to Babadi and Majin Buu

In other words, Ultra SSJ SHOULD be called "Ascended" and the fan-term ASSJ is very appropriate. It is nothing more than a power-up on the same level of efficiency as the zenkai. To transcend literally means "to improve and move forward". Ascending something isn't necessarily going to make things better. That was the whole reason Gokuu decided to cut-to-the-chase and master the form.

3) Was Hercule v. Chibi Buu a "real" fight...? Fighting his mother can easily be interpreted as "getting karate lessons". She is very knowledgable about the basics and would help Goten, a 6-year-old immensely.

4) The only thing required is that the base has been pushed further than it has ever pushed, and then it happens again later on in life (it can be as short as a few months). Although Toriyama probably did not foresee a transformation at that point in his work, Gokuu had a mild moment of insanity when Kuririn was assassinated. When Fureeza did it, Gokuu mutters about how this is the second time and he can't even come back anymore.

Not only that, he witnessed the even the second time so it was much harder on him. demonkingpiccolo's thoery about it being "dormant" has a strong basis, but is flawed. Goku was stated in a few panels, narrative on the author's part, to be "going beyond what his race is naturally supposed to do,". It wasn't (entirely) dormant, it was him pushing himself beyond all comprehension and achieving inconceivable leaps.

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My theory:

-You're body must have been pushed to it's limit twice, the second time being more painfull than the first.

-You must have an incredible amount of will-power and sense of justice.

-You have to have INTENSE amounts of distress. Stress, anger, and sorrow are the leading emotions. They (distressfull moments), do not necessarily need to be overly emotional or even moving. Goten did it on a whim, and it came in part from his not keeping up with Gohan; A child's intuition: "I can't win, darn. I need to be better somehow--POOF,".

.......

^HOPEFULLY that actually meant something and someone benefited from it.