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Originally Posted by Kid_Goku
I'm not talking about Gohan vs. Dabura.
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Well, I thought you were.
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Point taken. It still doesn't go anyway towards proving that Goku was a MSSj though.
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Okay. But if Goku's not all that strong, and Broly isn't as well, why wouldn't the attack at least faze him a bit?
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I don't see how he was "clearly" boasting. Also you need to look at the context it's said in.
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Gohan was stating it as if he shouldn't have any trouble with Broly. Like, it would suddenly be easy instead of difficult.
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Where's that line? I want to go and re-watch that part of the movie.
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When base Gohan is in the middle of his bout with Broly.
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Fact is that Gohan when wearing the uniform at the time, always had the cape on. Can this be denied?
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No, it can't be. Fact is, is Gohan, outside of his Saiyan armor, ever seen with regular clothes on? Yes. During those ten days he did, so it's plausible that he wouldn't need the cape.
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lol, it's called suppressing his power. There's nothing to say that he wasn't.
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Lol, Piccolo was powered-up and very suppressed at that point, then? No one made note (Krillin, Tien, or anyone else) of Piccolo's power being any different from it was when he powered-up against Cell, and when Cell used taiyoken and left. I'll agree that he could've still been very suppressed, since Cell could do it. Other then that, why don't his weights work anymore?
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lol, what do you mean "especially that way in #8?" That's the same uniform he's been wearing long before the Cell Arc. He's also worn it in previous movies. I just checked a clip of him again and the uniform is no different to any other time he wore it. The only difference here is that he's a SSj. The real fact is: Anytime he wore that uniform and was a SSj during that time, he sported the cape.
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I know. I just want to know if you can tell me when he's ever had the uniform on while being a SSJ?
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I look it as Broli now being stronger than MSSj and Goku & Gohan, and Gohan actually being a MSSj in this movie.
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Random numbers:
SSJ Kid Gohan movie #8= 10
MSSJ Kid Gohan (Cell Games)=20
MSSJ Teen Gohan-14
Even if that chart is a bit off, tell me what's powered-up considerably about that?
Okay.
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If. That's the thing. You're still trying to fit it in with the canon timeline.
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None of the movies, outside of two of them fit. I'm just going on what we see.
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They weren't MSSjs until a little before or just when they left RoSaT. Saying you want to master SSj doesn't mean you are a MSSj. Toei would have no idea at that point of what the form would be like or how strong it would be.
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I never said they were MSSJ once Goku said it. I said there was a span between that time, and when they actually fought against Cell in the tourney.
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That's evading the point.
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How? You said Goku was tied up. If I remember, after he told Gohan to leave, he attacked Broly directly. He wasn't tied up at all. He could've teleported him away.
Piccolo arrived with his senzu beans.
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Doing better than Vegeta isn't much to go by lol.
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If Piccolo did better then USSJ Vegeta, when he couldn't even stand up to Imperfect Cell, it is much to go by, lol.
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In any case, "keeping up" isn't exactly supporting your point well. If Piccolo is Post-RoSat and so Vegeta and Trunks have taken their second trips to the RoSaT, then their SSjT2 and 3 forms should exceed Piccolo's power greatly. As should Gohan and Goku's MSSj power. He shouldn't be able to "do better" than anybody.
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Piccolo went right in after Goku & Gohan left. Vegeta & Trunks didn't have to make the second trips in there by that point. Also; Piccolo did just as well as Vegeta & Trunks when the Cell Jr's attacked them. All three looked exactly the same. That shouldn't be, right?
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That's not my point though. My point is Piccolo's situation is comparable to Vegeta's situation in Movie 12.
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Actually, Vegeta aside from talkin his usual cool crap, put up no resistance at all. Once he got gripped by Janemba's long arm, he reverted to base. Piccolo actually fought longer then that, so it doesn't really compare.
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Firstly you said that Broli was going to go after Gohan, then you say that Broli only wants Goku?
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He attacked Goku like two times before he even transformed. Goku already knew Broly was only after him. Broly specifically said: "Do you care what happens to your son", or anything along those lines. The first person he attacked was Trunks, but Goku was clearly the one he wanted. Goku telling Gohan to leave was a precaution act on his part, not, "you're weaker then me", so you aren't needed. He just saw Broly blow up the planet with that fireball, and wanted Gohan out of the battle.
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If Goku needs help, he won't just tell everyone to go away. If he needs you there, he'll have you there.
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This is true, but again; Goku was never in a situation like this before. Goku's quote could also imply that he's enough to handle Broly on his own, which isn't the case. If your desperate man argument is actually usable, then Gohan was more of a factor then you think, or he wouldn't have been allowed back in with the addition of Piccolo only.
This brings up another question: If Gohan was so weak, why would Goku even allow Gohan to enter the battle in the first place? All three of them looked virtually the same against Broly in the first bout, and Goku even stated that the second bout would be different. Once Broly wiped out the planet, Goku told Gohan to leave. Broly didn't even power-up in-between those points, so it couldn't have been because Gohan was so weak to where he couldn't do anything.